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Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:33 am
by CaliforniaRaisin
Box Scores:

Iowa won 4-3 Box Score

2B C. Young 0/5
CF I. Happ 1/4, R, HR (7), RBI, K, outfield assist at home
3B J. Candelario 1/3, R, 2B (8), BB, 2 K
C V. Caratini 1/4, R, K
LF M. Zagunis 2/3, R, RBI, BB
SP E. Butler 6 IP, 8 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 1 K, 4-9 GO-FO, 93-62 pitches-strikes
RP F. Peña 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K, 2-0 GO-FO

Tennessee lost 4-3 Box Score

LF C. Burks 0/4, BB, K
CF J. Hannemann 2/4, R, 2B (1), BB, SB (1) - 2017 season debut
DH D. Bote 1/5, RBI
RF Je. Baez 0/3, R, BB, CS (2), outfield assist at second base
SP P. Morrison 5 IP, 5 H, 4 ER, 2 BB, 5 K, 5-4 GO-FO, 83-52 pitches-strikes
RP R. McNeil 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 3 K
RP D. Torrez 1 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 0 K, 0-2 GO-FO

Myrtle Beach won 6-3 Box Score

2B C. Sepulveda 1/5
RF E. Martinez 0/4, K
DH M. Rose 2/4, 2 R, 2B (4), K
1B T. Alamo 1/3, 2 R, BB, K
3B J. Hodges 3/4, 2 R, 2B (5), 2 RBI, K
SP A. Alzolay 5 IP, 6 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 7 K, 5-3 GO-FO, 81-58 pitches-strikes
RP D. Maples 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 4 K, 1 HBP, 1-1 GO-FO
RP P. Araujo 1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K, 0-1 GO-FO

South Bend won 4-2 Box Score

2B Z. Short 1/4, R, HR (2), RBI, K
SS I. Paredes 0/4, K
1B J. Pereda 1/3
3B W. Galindo 1/3, K, E (6, throw)
DH K. Mitchell 0/3, K
LF C. Pieters 2/2, R, 3B (2), BB, CS (1)
CF DJ Wilson 0/3, 3 K
SP J. Paulino 6 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 1 K, 12-3 GO-FO, 68-45 pitches-strikes
RP K. Miller 3 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 1 K, 2-5 GO-FO, 43-26 pitches-strikes

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:20 am
by philosophizer75
Man it would be cool if Butler stays sharp at AAA and could be poised as a viable, desirable option for the Cubs to get on a decent mid-level contract for the next few years.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:22 pm
by Tryptamine
philosophizer75 wrote:Man it would be cool if Butler stays sharp at AAA and could be poised as a viable, desirable option for the Cubs to get on a decent mid-level contract for the next few years.


It really would be great, because then you're going into 2018 looking like Lester,Hendricks,Mongomery,Butler and that open slot can be filled via FA. The Cubs would get to hang onto all of Eloy,Happ,Cease etc.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:10 pm
by davell

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:30 pm
by Hrubes20
davell wrote:https://twitter.com/billazbbphotog/status/855477630191124480


Everybody is raving about Ademan; especially Arguello. Legit defensive SS with a good hit tool. This is the first I've seen anyone say he has easy power though. That's exciting.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:45 pm
by CaliforniaRaisin

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:11 pm
by TomtheBombadil
Hrubes20 wrote:
davell wrote:https://twitter.com/billazbbphotog/status/855477630191124480


Everybody is raving about Ademan; especially Arguello. Legit defensive SS with a good hit tool. This is the first I've seen anyone say he has easy power though. That's exciting.


Callis said he could hit 15-18 HRs one day.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:15 pm
by CubsWin
Hrubes20 wrote:
davell wrote:https://twitter.com/billazbbphotog/status/855477630191124480


Everybody is raving about Ademan; especially Arguello. Legit defensive SS with a good hit tool. This is the first I've seen anyone say he has easy power though. That's exciting.

He's sounding more and more like Gleyber Torres. Probably a little better defensively, similar hit tool, not as advanced as an approach at the plate at the same age but with some power.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:47 pm
by CubsWin
Tryptamine wrote:
philosophizer75 wrote:Man it would be cool if Butler stays sharp at AAA and could be poised as a viable, desirable option for the Cubs to get on a decent mid-level contract for the next few years.


It really would be great, because then you're going into 2018 looking like Lester,Hendricks,Mongomery,Butler and that open slot can be filled via FA. The Cubs would get to hang onto all of Eloy,Happ,Cease etc.

As of now, they'd have their choice of (ages as of opening day 2018):

Arrieta (32)
Cashner (31) - For old time's sake...
Chatwood (28)
A. Cobb (30)
Darvish (31)
Hellickson (31)
Lackey (39)
F. Liriano (34)
L. Lynn (31)
Pineda (29)
T. Ross (31)
H. Santiago (30)
Tillman (30)

And possibly:

Tanaka (29) - If he opts out
Otani (23) - If he comes over

The obvious target is Otani, but let's count him out for purposes of this discussion. Assuming no hometown discounts and considering the Cubs' payroll considerations with the young guns hitting arbitration in the next year or two, who would you (everybody) like to sign most and why?

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:57 pm
by Cubswin11
CubsWin wrote:
Tryptamine wrote:
philosophizer75 wrote:Man it would be cool if Butler stays sharp at AAA and could be poised as a viable, desirable option for the Cubs to get on a decent mid-level contract for the next few years.


It really would be great, because then you're going into 2018 looking like Lester,Hendricks,Mongomery,Butler and that open slot can be filled via FA. The Cubs would get to hang onto all of Eloy,Happ,Cease etc.

As of now, they'd have their choice of (ages as of opening day 2018):

Arrieta (32)
Cashner (31) - For old time's sake...
Chatwood (28)
A. Cobb (30)
Darvish (31)
Hellickson (31)
Lackey (39)
F. Liriano (34)
L. Lynn (31)
Pineda (29)
T. Ross (31)
H. Santiago (30)
Tillman (30)

And possibly:

Tanaka (29) - If he opts out
Otani (23) - If he comes over

The obvious target is Otani, but let's count him out for purposes of this discussion. Assuming no hometown discounts and considering the Cubs' payroll considerations with the young guns hitting arbitration in the next year or two, who would you (everybody) like to sign most and why?

Chatwood very much intrigues me to get him out of Coors. He's youngish, great GB rates and his velo is pretty solid. He's my number 1 choice if we are being semi-realistic/not spending crazy money. Overall order of preference is

1. Otani
2. Whoever is cheaper of Arrieta and Darvish ($100 million or less and if it's more no thanks)
3. Chatwood
4. Pineda
5. Tanaka if his medicals are okay

Don't really care for anyone else.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:00 pm
by KingCubsFan
Pineda with Bosio could be really intriguing.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:03 pm
by TomtheBombadil
CubsWin wrote:
Tryptamine wrote:
philosophizer75 wrote:Man it would be cool if Butler stays sharp at AAA and could be poised as a viable, desirable option for the Cubs to get on a decent mid-level contract for the next few years.


It really would be great, because then you're going into 2018 looking like Lester,Hendricks,Mongomery,Butler and that open slot can be filled via FA. The Cubs would get to hang onto all of Eloy,Happ,Cease etc.

As of now, they'd have their choice of (ages as of opening day 2018):

Arrieta (32)
Cashner (31) - For old time's sake...
Chatwood (28)
A. Cobb (30)
Darvish (31)
Hellickson (31)
Lackey (39)
F. Liriano (34)
L. Lynn (31)
Pineda (29)
T. Ross (31)
H. Santiago (30)
Tillman (30)

And possibly:

Tanaka (29) - If he opts out
Otani (23) - If he comes over

The obvious target is Otani, but let's count him out for purposes of this discussion. Assuming no hometown discounts and considering the Cubs' payroll considerations with the young guns hitting arbitration in the next year or two, who would you (everybody) like to sign most and why?


Tanaka is the one I like most, by far maybe. Cobb or Santiago would work fine for the BOR, Pineda is interesting, and Darvish is Darvish.

I forgot but yeah Chatwood is cool. I loved him when he was a healthier guy and am glad to read he's still a good pitcher after getting hit so hard with injuries. He's in that Cobb/Santiago pool of two now three.

Ademan's probably not even one of my five favorite signees from that 2015 IFA crop that I expect so much from. This is definitely a big deal. I have highest hopes pegged on Paredes, Amaya, and Marquez. Ademan's in that pool with Sierra, Gutierrez, Carrera, Ocampo, and maybe one or both of Nunez/Narea.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:21 pm
by CubsWin
KingCubsFan wrote:Pineda with Bosio could be really intriguing.

Totally intriguing, but I can't see the Yankees letting him go without a bidding war. He won't come cheap. Even though he's one of the youngest arms available, if the Cubs are going to spend big, I might want someone with a better, healthier track record. As with most things, it all comes down to price.

I know the Cubs will have plenty to spend this coming off season, but does anyone have a good handle on what they can afford to give a pitcher in his 4th, 5th and 6th years (if it comes to that) without getting in trouble with salary tax limit? If it is a big money guy, front loading the contract will make a lot of sense.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:39 pm
by TomtheBombadil
CubsWin wrote:I know the Cubs will have plenty to spend this coming off season, but does anyone have a good handle on what they can afford to give a pitcher in his 4th, 5th and 6th years (if it comes to that) without getting in trouble with salary tax limit? If it is a big money guy, front loading the contract will make a lot of sense.


The last thing we should be worrying about is the Cubs' money 4+ years from now right after they cash in on media rights. I can't see any obvious benefits to frontloading a deal.

CW11, Interesting on a list with half the pitchers having a TJ under their belt that Tanaka is the one whose medicals you seem worried about most. Why? He's avoided that, is a top 3 FA SP by merit, is the youngest in that top 3, has tremendous pedigree, a long track record of success...Guy's probably pushing the total package as a FA pitcher.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:49 pm
by davell
CubsWin wrote:
KingCubsFan wrote:Pineda with Bosio could be really intriguing.

Totally intriguing, but I can't see the Yankees letting him go without a bidding war. He won't come cheap. Even though he's one of the youngest arms available, if the Cubs are going to spend big, I might want someone with a better, healthier track record. As with most things, it all comes down to price.

I know the Cubs will have plenty to spend this coming off season, but does anyone have a good handle on what they can afford to give a pitcher in his 4th, 5th and 6th years (if it comes to that) without getting in trouble with salary tax limit? If it is a big money guy, front loading the contract will make a lot of sense.


I'll be a bit surprised if they keep Pineda. They're going to reset their LT next year. I fully expect them to be way, way under for their run at Bryce and Machado.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:56 pm
by CubsWin
davell wrote:
CubsWin wrote:
KingCubsFan wrote:Pineda with Bosio could be really intriguing.

Totally intriguing, but I can't see the Yankees letting him go without a bidding war. He won't come cheap. Even though he's one of the youngest arms available, if the Cubs are going to spend big, I might want someone with a better, healthier track record. As with most things, it all comes down to price.

I know the Cubs will have plenty to spend this coming off season, but does anyone have a good handle on what they can afford to give a pitcher in his 4th, 5th and 6th years (if it comes to that) without getting in trouble with salary tax limit? If it is a big money guy, front loading the contract will make a lot of sense.


I'll be a bit surprised if they keep Pineda. They're going to reset their LT next year. I fully expect them to be way, way under for their run at Bryce and Machado.

Ah, yes. Good point. Didn't think of that. Though I thought they'd already got under the LT.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:00 pm
by TomtheBombadil
I love Pineda as New Hammel, low commit in both contract and role, pretty much hate him for anything more than that. Probably like Chatwood or Cobb most for this kind of signing of all the FAs, leaning towards Chatwood.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:05 pm
by We Got The Whole 9
Don't know if you guys saw this. From Cubs Den

Eloy Jimenez played the OF today but as mentioned, did not make a throw. In fact, the one chance he did, he ran the ball into the infield and flipped it underhand to the 2B.  I am not sure what to make of that, but we'll see what happens over the next few days.  He also hit the ball well, though he did not have a hit to show for it.


That shoulder must be really tender still

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:27 pm
by davell
I don't think our 2015 IFA class is bad, but I definitely think we signed kids early that didn't develop well for their 16 year old season, therefore overpaid on a decent amount of our class. Some have came back, some haven't. Way too early to truly judge anything, but my current rankings on that group, would be like this, for what I think they end up....

1. Albertos- not close, he's far and away the exciting guy from this class
2. Ademan- the bat seems to be better than advertised at this point and he's a legit SS
3. Amaya- I'd say the same as Ademan, but he's a C.
4. Paredes- Obviously interesting. Still feel he's advanced for his age, but guys will catch up to him fairly soon. Hope I'm wrong.
5- Marquez- Just projection so far, but when he adds a few MPH, he can become super exciting.
6- Sierra- I'm going to figure that within 2 years, he's added some weight and has a nice power/discipline combo.
9- Morel- Big drop off after Sierra. But, I like the projectability with him too. Has shown flashes in EXST.
8- Assad- Sturdy frame, solid velo and checks most boxes our FO likes. Hoping he gets a few SB innings this year.
7- Gutierrez- Switch him and Morel up. Gutierrez has the same projection, plays a more valuable position, and is more advanced too.
10- Carrera- Can see Antigua/Rodriguez type, advanced lefty that dominates early. Maybe he'll grow into more velo? Have to have some positive vibes, he's been great in the DSL.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:39 pm
by Cubswin11
TomtheBombadil wrote:CW11, Interesting on a list with half the pitchers having a TJ under their belt that Tanaka is the one whose medicals you seem worried about most. Why? He's avoided that, is a top 3 FA SP by merit, is the youngest in that top 3, has tremendous pedigree, a long track record of success...Guy's probably pushing the total package as a FA pitcher.

I mentioned it in the Transactions Thread today I think, Tanaka's tear in his arm freaks me out a bit. If the FO feels fine with signing him with that, with whatever treatment(s)/conditioning he's doing and don't think there's any more risk he blows out vs anyone else, great, he'd shoot up my preference list probably. But that injury scares me committing long-term dollars to him. I'd rather sign the guys who've already had TJS and shown they've come back than a guy who may be on the verge of it. Chatwood/Pineda will come cheaper than him too, which factors in (think both have a little to be unlocked if healthy getting with Bosio and our defense).

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:26 am
by davell
Alzolay had an excellent outing. 5 6 1 0 0 7, 5:3 GO/FO.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:56 am
by TomtheBombadil
Cubswin11 wrote:Chatwood/Pineda will come cheaper than him too, which factors in (think both have a little to be unlocked if healthy getting with Bosio and our defense).


I love Chatwood or Pineda on relatively low commit deals if there's a Hendricks to their Hammel ready to jump them in the rotation, they're not really dependable enough otherwise. Since I do think their next 1-3 starter is coming via trade, where the Cubs *really* have spending power right now, those guys may definitely end up being more sensible FA options.

As far as Tanaka, I am a *huge* believer in avoiding the knife if at all possible for pitchers and am generally optimistic about the really good athletes who opt for PRP treatment. That Tanaka has also throw a full healthy season, and was excellent, since his last injury is also encouraging. He's moving up, but needs a summer of good health, velocity, and periphs to put him over the top.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:05 am
by TomtheBombadil
Anyways, Pereda has quietly had a really strong start for South Bend. He got bumped up to the 3 spot in the lineup tonight behind Paredes.

I've been wondering wtf I actually expect from Paredes this year as he goes through some early [expletive]. I believe even something like .270/.320/.380 with maybe half a dozen HRs and some good baserunning to go with his low K rate still puts him on a star's track since he's currently playing SS, but it would be so fun if he made it a little easier.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:39 am
by TomtheBombadil
davell wrote:I don't think our 2015 IFA class is bad, but I definitely think we signed kids early that didn't develop well for their 16 year old season, therefore overpaid on a decent amount of our class. Some have came back, some haven't. Way too early to truly judge anything, but my current rankings on that group, would be like this, for what I think they end up....

1. Albertos- not close, he's far and away the exciting guy from this class
2. Ademan- the bat seems to be better than advertised at this point and he's a legit SS
3. Amaya- I'd say the same as Ademan, but he's a C.
4. Paredes- Obviously interesting. Still feel he's advanced for his age, but guys will catch up to him fairly soon. Hope I'm wrong.
5- Marquez- Just projection so far, but when he adds a few MPH, he can become super exciting.
6- Sierra- I'm going to figure that within 2 years, he's added some weight and has a nice power/discipline combo.
9- Morel- Big drop off after Sierra. But, I like the projectability with him too. Has shown flashes in EXST.
8- Assad- Sturdy frame, solid velo and checks most boxes our FO likes. Hoping he gets a few SB innings this year.
7- Gutierrez- Switch him and Morel up. Gutierrez has the same projection, plays a more valuable position, and is more advanced too.
10- Carrera- Can see Antigua/Rodriguez type, advanced lefty that dominates early. Maybe he'll grow into more velo? Have to have some positive vibes, he's been great in the DSL.


I care less about their individual ceilings right now than how the Cubs are treating them as a group. It's waaaaaaay too early to really get anything about them as individuals, but as a group they're off to a very start. The Cubs have rarely moved their IFAs as aggressively as this group, best personified by Paredes already playing full season ball so far. Back when Jimenez and Torres skipped the DSL it was a really big deal that the Cubs had 18U IFAs stateside, IIRC it was as little as one maybe two players in the previous decade. By the end of this year all these guys are good bets to have played stateside at 18U, and there's even a few others (Ocampo, Abraham Rodriguez has a shot, Fernando Kelli) that might join. There's even some shot one of these 18 YOs - money should probably be on Ademan - gets promoted to Eugene. Off the top of my head all of these guys were at least better than league average if not top performers last year or showed a skill that should carry - the hitters specifically made lots of contact (including Gutierrez, a guy CCO stated teams shied away from because he was very raw).

Basically it's less about them all turning out to be awesome and more about a team using a quantity approach to find a star. Random but generally moving them together as a group, more or less, seems like a nice player development touch early on.

Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 4-21-17

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:49 am
by davell
Happ HR