2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs, BP, ESPN, MLB Pipeline)

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Re: BA's Top 10 Cubs Prospects

Postby Hrubes20 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:52 pm

davell wrote:
sneakypower wrote:i have quite frankly never heard of Nelson Velasquez before now


4th or 5th round pick.(5th, I think) Big power, had some hamstring issues during his HS season in Puerto Rico last year, so underperformed a bit. Healthy now, seems like we got a steal. Was over slotted, slot was 285k and we gave him 400k.


5th round. I can't remember who it was, but one of the national guys was commenting on how legit he was after the season. Went on to compliment the Cubs for being able to look past the injury-plagued HS season to see his talent.
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Re: BA's Top 10 Cubs Prospects

Postby Hrubes20 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:12 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Hrubes20 wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Did scouts just not turn up for Rucker's starts? I continue to be confused why he can't get any love while someone like Hatch is cracking Top 10s.


Rucker is one of those guys that will probably never appeal to scouts. Short RHP without elite velocity or movement, no wipeout secondary, and is a flyball pitcher. Hatch is also a relatively short RHP, but he has the great movement on all of his stuff, while still having solid velocity. His slider can be plus, and he induces tons of groundballs with all of his pitches. I'm a big fan of Hatch, as long as he stays healthy.


Rucker is sitting in the 92-93 range IIRC, and his GB% at Myrtle Beach was higher than Hatch's.


Which is why I said it's not elite. Hatch sits 92-94 as well, but with tons more movement. I do stand corrected on Rucker's GB rate, though. I thought he was a flyball pitcher for some reason. That is a big boon for him, as he doesn't have the secondaries as mentioned before.
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Re: BA's Top 10 Cubs Prospects

Postby Bertz » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:12 pm

He didn't make the list, and he shouldn't have, but I'm really bullish on DJ Wilson. The athleticism is obviously there, and the performance was fantastic after he came back from injury. .255/.339/.516 with a 10.0% walk rate and 19.1% k-rate, and he'll still only be 21 next season.
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Re: BA's Top 10 Cubs Prospects

Postby Tim » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:17 pm

Bertz wrote:He didn't make the list, and he shouldn't have, but I'm really bullish on DJ Wilson. The athleticism is obviously there, and the performance was fantastic after he came back from injury. .255/.339/.516 with a 10.0% walk rate and 19.1% k-rate, and he'll still only be 21 next season.

Yeah, if that's his new level of performance he will be shooting up the rankings in 2018
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Re: BA's Top 10 Cubs Prospects

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:33 pm

Hrubes20 wrote:
davell wrote:
sneakypower wrote:i have quite frankly never heard of Nelson Velasquez before now


4th or 5th round pick.(5th, I think) Big power, had some hamstring issues during his HS season in Puerto Rico last year, so underperformed a bit. Healthy now, seems like we got a steal. Was over slotted, slot was 285k and we gave him 400k.


5th round. I can't remember who it was, but one of the national guys was commenting on how legit he was after the season. Went on to compliment the Cubs for being able to look past the injury-plagued HS season to see his talent.


I believe it was Longenhagen at Fangraphs, who lives in the Phoenix area and gets in a lot of AZL games.
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Re: BA's Top 10 Cubs Prospects

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:04 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Did scouts just not turn up for Rucker's starts? I continue to be confused why he can't get any love while someone like Hatch is cracking Top 10s.


Maybe he’s getting knocked for his age? 23 in the A ball levels isn’t going to draw much national attention unless he was spectacular, and he was more very good.
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Re: BA's Top 10 Cubs Prospects

Postby Regular Show » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:42 pm

Cubs Top 10 Prospects
1. Aramis Ademan, SS
2. Adbert Alzolay, RHP
3. Jose Albertos, RHP
4. Victor Caratini, C
5. Alex Lange, RHP
6. Oscar De La Cruz, RHP
7. Brendon Little, LHP
8. Thomas Hatch, RHP
9. Jen-Ho Tseng, RHP
10. Nelson Velazquez, OF

I'm surprised they have Ademan rated #1 on the list for the Cubs. Everything I've read about him to this point described him as a solid, average-tools infielder with a chance to stick at SS, but not someone who will be a plus defensive player. Just didn't seem like someone with a high ceiling. I wonder where they have the Cubs farm system ranked -- probably in the bottom third in MLB.

This list is pretty crappy compared to year's past, but that happens when you're making trades to help the big league team. I'm really not high on T. Hatch or Jen-Ho Tseng.

I do like A. Alzolay and O. De La Cruz, and hope they can remain healthy and move quickly next year.
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Re: BA's Top 10 Cubs Prospects

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:29 am

A few of the questions from the chat:

Paul (Chicago, IL): Would the Cubs' system be considered to be in the bottom five right now?

J.J. Cooper: Hey everyone. To start this out on a down note, yes I’d agree. This is one of the thinner farm systems in baseball right now. So how did they get here? By having a whole lot of success. Few teams that graduate the wave of prospects that Chicago did from 2014-2016 follow that up with anything equivalent, but more than that, the Cubs have traded away Gleyber Torres and Eloy Jimenez in the past two seasons. If the Cubs still had both of them, they would be a top 10 farm system in my mind–that’s how valuable having two Top 10 Prospects is for a team. Instead, Chicago doesn’t have a sure-fire Top 100 Prospect and most of the best prospects are several years away.


Frank (Indianapolis, IN): How many of these guys could make BA's 100 list, if any?

J.J. Cooper: Ademan and Alzolay both feel to me like the kind of players who get consideration for the Top 100, but I wouldn’t be shocked if the Cubs are shut out.


Jeff (Work): Once I get past health and arm strength what am I loving about Alzolay? Is he ranked ahead of guys like Hatch, Albertos, and Lange on reaching AA or is there more to the story?

J.J. Cooper: Those are Alzolay’s strengths, but in this system a potentially reliable back-of-the-rotation starter looks pretty good. Albertos has more upside, but he also has yet to pitch in full season ball and has less than 50 pro innings. Lange has to add a third pitch and has enough of a medical concern that his signing bonus was reduced. Hatch needs to prove he can throw strikes. All four of the pitchers you mentioned have plenty left on the to-do list, but Alzolay is closest to the majors of the four.
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Re: BA's Top 10 Cubs Prospects

Postby toonsterwu » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:42 pm

I'm not ... surprised at this list. I'm okay with Ademan at the top. This looks to be a kid who can hit for average, be a solid defensive shortstop, and may grow into some double digit home run power. It's a good package. It's not a typical "number 1 prospect package", but our system is thin.

I'm fine with Alzolay at 2. The argument makes sense - he might not have the ceiling of a few other guys, but he's got a decent ceiling and stayed healthy. Tbh, a bit surprised that de la Cruz stayed at 6 as I sorta expected him to slide a bit. the lack of work is problematic,so I imagine he'll be on a tight leash this year, as I don't expect them to push him to a pen track just yet.

If anything, I'm a bit surprised at Tseng at 9 but the velocity being back makes it a decent placement. Velasquez over Wilson at 10 surprises a bit, but sounds like Velasquez's ceiling is higher and both are extremely far away.

All in all, I buy it. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, this was supposed to be the year with Torres/Jimenez/Cease in the top 5, and in that respect, our system wouldn't have missed a beat, which would've been fairly remarkable, but we pushed all in the last two years, and justifiably so.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings

Postby CubsWin » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:06 am

davell wrote:http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2018-chicago-cubs-top-10-prospects/?amphtml=1

Interesting list from BA....

Ademan, Alzolay, Albertos, Caratini, Lange, de la Cruz, Little, Hatch, Tseng, and Velázquez.

This list makes a lot more sense to me. We don't know who rounds out 11-20 but at least you can see the reasoning behind this top 10.

I'd probably have Albertos, Alzolay and then Ademan but that's quibbling. I'm encouraged BA likes Velazquez and Tseng as much as they do. I like Tseng there and would've had Velazquez in the 15-20 range, so it's cool that guys who presumably know a whole lot more than I do have him higher.

I'm interested to see if the Cubs can add anyone to their top 20 from the Braves prospects that were cut. Maitan is a long shot, but there are a handful of other guys that, if signed, could sneak into the back end of the Cubs top 20. That doesn't say a lot about the state of the Cubs system, but hey, you gotta start rebuilding the system somewhere.

C Abrahan Gutierrez (15th ranked in 2016 IFA class by BA) got $3.5 million. INF Yunior Severino (8th ranked in 2016 IFA class by BA) got $1.9 million. RHP Yelfri Del Rosario (26th ranked in 2016 IFA class by BA) got $1 million and SS Livan Soto (16th ranked in 2016 IFA class by BA) got $1 million. Each of those players aquitted themselves well in rookie ball this year as 17-year-olds.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:06 pm

I was flipping through BA’s NL Central issue at a Barnes & Noble and really hope the Brendon Little they describe shows up next year.

Months later I’m still really like Lange. Stay healthy!

Velázquez read like an extremely raw guy with Puig-esque tools and frame.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings

Postby Hrubes20 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:48 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:I was flipping through BA’s NL Central issue at a Barnes & Noble and really hope the Brendon Little they describe shows up next year.

Months later I’m still really like Lange. Stay healthy!

Velázquez read like an extremely raw guy with Puig-esque tools and frame.


Yeah, really hoping he pulls a Thomas Hatch and gets back the pre-draft velocity. Hatch was 93-95 in the reports predraft, but was 88-91 at the end of the college season and in instructs. Similarly, Little was 92-95 predraft, but 88-91 during his first taste of pro ball.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:19 pm

Fangraphs top 22: https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-22- ... cago-cubs/

1. Aramis Ademan
2. Adbert Alzolay
3. José Albertos
4. Oscar de la Cruz
5. Brandon Little
6. Alex Lange
7. Victor Caratini
8. DJ Wilson
9. Miguel Amaya
10. Alec Mills
11. Jeremiah Estrada
12. Thomas Hatch
13. Nelson Velásquez
14. Brailyn Marquez
15. Cory Abbott
16. Wladimir Gallindo
17. Dillon Maples
18. José Paulino
19. Jason Vosler
20. Mark Zagunis
21. Bryan Hudson
22. Eddy Julio Martinez

Only the first two have a FV of even 50, prospects 3-6 are 45 and the rest all have FVs of 40.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs)

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:31 pm

At this point it's safe to wonder if Rucker killed a scout's family, if Hudson and EJM are getting run on lists instead of him.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs)

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:57 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:At this point it's safe to wonder if Rucker killed a scout's family, if Hudson and EJM are getting run on lists instead of him.


He was 12th in other prospects of note (in order of preference), rightfully behind Junior Lake Jonathan Sierra.

Michael Rucker, RHP, 0.8 KATOH – Rucker has terrific command — especially to his glove side — of a deceptively hard fastball that will creep into the mid-90s, and he mixes in two slurvy breaking balls and a moving changeup, all of which are fringe to average. He largely lives off of his fastball and his deceptive, slingy delivery, but he pitched well in long relief and got a look as a starter mid-year. Rucker is a bit older, largely because he was drafted as a redshirt junior after transferring from Gonzaga to BYU and sat out a year.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs)

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:58 pm

CubsWin wrote:MLB.com has their list out.

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2017?list=chc

Still no Amaya in their top 30...


Jim Callis tweeted that their actual lists would start coming out in January. MLB.com will do the MLB-wide top 100 list first.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs)

Postby UMFan83 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:08 pm

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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs)

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:54 am

I like Longenhagen's list, but the one thing that sorta bugs me is Alec Mills at 10. Dunno ... granted, gap from 10 to the end isn't much ... but that bugged me a tiny bit. I really like the recognition given to Galindo, and to a lesser extent, Hudson.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs)

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:00 am

Sickels top 20:

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/12 ... s-for-2018

Alzolay
Ademan
Lange
Albertos
Cartini
De la Cruz
Hatch
Little
Tseng
Zagunis
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs)

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:12 am

It took me longer than normal to find because I had to stop for air after laughing so hard at Underwood being #11, but Rucker finally makes a list at 16.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs)

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:28 am

Never knew TT would be a John Sickels guy
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs)

Postby davell » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:29 am

I'm really interested in placement for 2018. Does Alzolay start in AA? Or do they fast track him? My guess is they'll protect him in AA, assuming he's still a Cub by then.

What about de la Cruz? I have to think he'll start in AA too. And maybe move quick, if he stays healthy.

Rucker and Robinson surely start in AA too. They'll be 24 at that point, or very shortly for Rucker anyway.

Add in Hatch, which seems definite, and that's an extremely interesting rotation in Tennessee. Alzolay/de la Cruz/Hatch/Rucker/Robinson.

Clifton doesn't deserve a AAA spot, but they may need to bump him up, or put him in the pen. I guess Alzolay could be thrown into Iowa, but I don't see it.

Iowa should have Tseng, Hedges, Mills(forgot earlier) maybe Clifton, maybe Chris Nunn. They'll definitely add to this over the winter.

MB is interesting too. Hudson will have a spot. My guess is this is Lange's starting spot next year too. Erling Moreno will have a spot. The other 2 spots probably come down to Tyson Miller, Paulino, Rondon, and Kellogg competing.

SB looks like Albertos and Assad, as definite. Kyle Abbott looks like a safe bet too. Little SHOULD be here, but I'd say there's at least a small shot they'd leave him back at EXST, for a bit. Depending on how he looks obviously. I guess Camargo, Keegan Thompson, Uelman, and Bailey Clark find themselves in piggyback situations.

Looking at this, I'm kind of impressed. Its far from perfect, but there's plenty of talent in full season ball now. Plus, we'll get Marquez and Estrada in Eugene, with Didier Vargas coming up from the DSL for Arizona.....Not to mention whatever we draft.....

I think we look pretty solid overall, from a starting pitching standpoint.
Last edited by davell on Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs)

Postby Tim » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:34 am

davell wrote:I'm really interested in placement for 2018. Does Alzolay start in AA? Or do they fast track him? My guess is they'll protect him in AA, assuming he's still a Cub by then.

What about de la Cruz? I have to think he'll start in AA too. And maybe move quick, if he stays healthy.

Rucker and Robinson surely start in AA too. They'll be 24 at that point, or very shortly for Rucker anyway.

Add in Hatch, which seems definite, and that's an extremely interesting rotation in Tennessee. Alzolay/de la Cruz/Hatch/Rucker/Robinson.

Clifton doesn't deserve a AAA spot, but they may need to bump him up, or put him in the pen. I guess Alzolay could be thrown into Iowa, but I don't see it.

Iowa should have Tseng, Hedges, maybe Clifton, maybe Chris Nunn. They'll definitely add to this over the winter.

MB is interesting too. Hudson will have a spot. My guess is this is Lange's starting spot next year too. Erling Moreno will have a spot. The other 2 spots probably come down to Tyson Miller, Paulino, Rondon, and Kellogg competing.

SB looks like Albertos and Assad, as definite. Kyle Abbott looks like a safe bet too. Little SHOULD be here, but I'd say there's at least a small shot they'd leave him back at EXST, for a bit. Depending on how he looks obviously. I guess Camargo, Keegan Thompson, Uelman, and Bailey Clark find themselves in piggyback situations.

Looking at this, I'm kind of impressed. Its far from perfect, but there's plenty of talent in full season ball now. Plus, we'll get Marquez and Estrada in Eugene, with Didier Vargas coming up from the DSL for Arizona.....Not to mention whatever we draft.....

I think we look pretty solid overall, from a starting pitching standpoint.

Is Mills out of options? Otherwise he'll be at Iowa.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs)

Postby davell » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:36 am

horsefeathers, he's a definite. Just forgot him.
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Re: 2017 Post-Season Prospect Rankings (BA, Fangraphs)

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:45 am

Mills has one option left. Arizona Phil's work here is tremendous btw, so consulting this page makes the answer for any current Cubs easy: http://www.thecubreporter.com/cubs-40-man-roster
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