Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

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Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:56 am

Box Scores:

Iowa in progress Box Score

Tennessee lost 9-1 Box Score

Myrtle Beach lost 6-5 Box Score

South Bend won 5-4 (11 innings) Box Score

Eugene in progress Box Score

AZL Cubs 1 had the day off

AZL Cubs 2 in progress Box Score

DSL Cubs 1 lost game one 7-6 (7 innings) Box Score

DSL Cubs 1 won game two 12-4 (7 innings) Box Score

DSL Cubs 2 lost 4-3 Box Score
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby CubsWin » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:53 am

What a depressing minor league season for the Cubs. By some lists, the 3 top pitching prospects for the Cubs: Alzolay out for the year. De La Cruz sucked and then got suspended for 80 games. Albertos imploded. Their top hitting prospect at the start of the season, Ademan struggled mightily in the first half after a very aggressive promotion and is hitting worse 100 ABs into his 2nd half.

A very not top heavy organization has seen arguably their highest rated prospects heading into the year either get injured, fall apart or underperform. Then their top draft pick's elbow lands him out the rest of the season. And now, I have to waste a day watching Casey Coleman, Erich Uelman, Matt Lawler and Zach Mort pitch.

Thank God for Miguel Amaya, Brailyn Marquez and Cole Roederer...
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby dfnowak » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:11 pm

CubsWin wrote:What a depressing minor league season for the Cubs. By some lists, the 3 top pitching prospects for the Cubs: Alzolay out for the year. De La Cruz sucked and then got suspended for 80 games. Albertos imploded. Their top hitting prospect at the start of the season, Ademan struggled mightily in the first half after a very aggressive promotion and is hitting worse 100 ABs into his 2nd half.

A very not top heavy organization has seen arguably their highest rated prospects heading into the year either get injured, fall apart or underperform. Then their top draft pick's elbow lands him out the rest of the season. And now, I have to waste a day watching Casey Coleman, Erich Uelman, Matt Lawler and Zach Mort pitch.

Thank God for Miguel Amaya, Brailyn Marquez and Cole Roederer...

I feel like outside of the 1st round picks from 2012-15 (and Cease), their drafting hasn’t been that good and one of the reasons their farm system doesn’t rate very well. They’re a big boy organization with big boy resources and there’s no reason we couldn’t have found more guys outside of the first round. Maybe I’m just ignorant...
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby toonsterwu » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:27 pm

Total side note, but Uelman has some intrigue. He has a legitimate power sinker, and there's, by most accounts I've seen, the potential for some decent secondary offerings. He just doesn't have the polish on it yet, but if he can become as polished and consistent as, say, Rollie Lacy, that's a very good starting mid-rotation ceiling (parallel to that, if Lacy could find a couple mph ... that's a very intriguing arm, but at his age and development, I doubt it).
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby Bertz » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:31 pm

dfnowak wrote:
CubsWin wrote:What a depressing minor league season for the Cubs. By some lists, the 3 top pitching prospects for the Cubs: Alzolay out for the year. De La Cruz sucked and then got suspended for 80 games. Albertos imploded. Their top hitting prospect at the start of the season, Ademan struggled mightily in the first half after a very aggressive promotion and is hitting worse 100 ABs into his 2nd half.

A very not top heavy organization has seen arguably their highest rated prospects heading into the year either get injured, fall apart or underperform. Then their top draft pick's elbow lands him out the rest of the season. And now, I have to waste a day watching Casey Coleman, Erich Uelman, Matt Lawler and Zach Mort pitch.

Thank God for Miguel Amaya, Brailyn Marquez and Cole Roederer...

I feel like outside of the 1st round picks from 2012-15 (and Cease), their drafting hasn’t been that good and one of the reasons their farm system doesn’t rate very well. They’re a big boy organization with big boy resources and there’s no reason we couldn’t have found more guys outside of the first round. Maybe I’m just ignorant...


Craig Edwards, is that you?
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby bauermj » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:22 pm

dfnowak wrote:I feel like outside of the 1st round picks from 2012-15 (and Cease), their drafting hasn’t been that good and one of the reasons their farm system doesn’t rate very well. They’re a big boy organization with big boy resources and there’s no reason we couldn’t have found more guys outside of the first round. Maybe I’m just ignorant...


Debbie downer
1) Any organization would love to draft 4 years straight: 2+ win, major league regulars. I can't find another MLB team that hit on all 4 of those first rounders (12/13/14/15) with an MLB regular.
2) There was no 1st round (nor 2nd round) pick in 2016 due to signing Free Agents that led to a World Series. Its way too early to discuss the 2017 & 2018 draft classes contributing but the Cubs just handed out the most six figure bonuses to rounds 11-40 in their history.
3) There was a great fangraphs article with chart years ago, showing expected WAR from players drafted after the first round. It was NOT sexy.
There will always be a few anecdotal examples of non first round contributors, and the Cubs some candidates themselves from that period (Bote, Underwood, Zastryzny, Norwood, Maples from Hendry) plus some that could emerge (Clifton, Meekes, Zagunis, Vosler, Keegan Thompson, Giambrone, Zac Short, Stinnett, Swarmer, Rucker, Robinson, Hatch). Others used in trades to acquire Major League assets (Godley, Cease, James Farris, Blackburn, Crawford, Tyler Thomas, probably some im forgetting). Show me an organization full of homegrown Round 2-40 players starting on their active roster.
4) Cubs kill it on the international front
Last edited by bauermj on Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby Hrubes20 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:37 pm

CubsWin wrote:What a depressing minor league season for the Cubs. By some lists, the 3 top pitching prospects for the Cubs: Alzolay out for the year. De La Cruz sucked and then got suspended for 80 games. Albertos imploded. Their top hitting prospect at the start of the season, Ademan struggled mightily in the first half after a very aggressive promotion and is hitting worse 100 ABs into his 2nd half.

A very not top heavy organization has seen arguably their highest rated prospects heading into the year either get injured, fall apart or underperform. Then their top draft pick's elbow lands him out the rest of the season. And now, I have to waste a day watching Casey Coleman, Erich Uelman, Matt Lawler and Zach Mort pitch.

Thank God for Miguel Amaya, Brailyn Marquez and Cole Roederer...


Dude. Underwood and Clifton are picking up the slack with their seasons and return to legit prospect status.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:27 pm

bauermj wrote:
dfnowak wrote:I feel like outside of the 1st round picks from 2012-15 (and Cease), their drafting hasn’t been that good and one of the reasons their farm system doesn’t rate very well. They’re a big boy organization with big boy resources and there’s no reason we couldn’t have found more guys outside of the first round. Maybe I’m just ignorant...


Debbie downer
1) Any organization would love to draft 4 years straight: 2+ win, major league regulars. I can't find another MLB team that hit on all 4 of those first rounders (12/13/14/15) with an MLB regular.
2) There was no 1st round (nor 2nd round) pick in 2016 due to signing Free Agents that led to a World Series. Its way too early to discuss the 2017 & 2018 draft classes contributing but the Cubs just handed out the most six figure bonuses to rounds 11-40 in their history.
3) There was a great fangraphs article with chart years ago, showing expected WAR from players drafted after the first round. It was NOT sexy.
There will always be a few anecdotal examples of non first round contributors, and the Cubs some candidates themselves from that period (Bote, Underwood, Zastryzny, Norwood, Maples from Hendry) plus some that could emerge (Clifton, Meekes, Zagunis, Vosler, Keegan Thompson, Giambrone, Zac Short, Stinnett, Swarmer, Rucker, Robinson, Hatch). Others used in trades to acquire Major League assets (Godley, Cease, James Farris, Blackburn, Crawford, Tyler Thomas, probably some im forgetting). Show me an organization full of homegrown Round 2-40 players starting on their active roster.
4) Cubs kill it on the international front


Would love to find that Fangraphs piece if anyone knows the link. I couldn't find it after a cursory Google search.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby bauermj » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:02 pm

CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Would love to find that Fangraphs piece if anyone knows the link. I couldn't find it after a cursory Google search.


Very quick search & I didn't find exactly what I was thinking of. I will look later but here are a few that are related or perhaps my memory is fuzzy:

http://viewfromthebleachers.com/archives/26796 (including: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-772wl ... t?hl=en_US)

https://www.fangraphs.com/community/suc ... s-by-slot/
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby CubsWin » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:57 pm

Hrubes20 wrote:
CubsWin wrote:What a depressing minor league season for the Cubs. By some lists, the 3 top pitching prospects for the Cubs: Alzolay out for the year. De La Cruz sucked and then got suspended for 80 games. Albertos imploded. Their top hitting prospect at the start of the season, Ademan struggled mightily in the first half after a very aggressive promotion and is hitting worse 100 ABs into his 2nd half.

A very not top heavy organization has seen arguably their highest rated prospects heading into the year either get injured, fall apart or underperform. Then their top draft pick's elbow lands him out the rest of the season. And now, I have to waste a day watching Casey Coleman, Erich Uelman, Matt Lawler and Zach Mort pitch.

Thank God for Miguel Amaya, Brailyn Marquez and Cole Roederer...


Dude. Underwood and Clifton are picking up the slack with their seasons and return to legit prospect status.

And on top of it all, the Smokies have to face Dylan Cease tonight just remind us of when we actually had some high end talent...
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:49 am

[quote="CubsWin"]And on top of it all, the Smokies have to face Dylan Cease tonight just remind us of when we actually had some high end talent...[/quote]

Is Cease missed so much or even all that high end of a talent?

I think the disappointment that the farm system doesn’t rank high enough is temporary and noise in the wider lens of the Cubs as an org. The situation is pretty easily explained - the roster is loaded with young cheap talent coming off that 2013-2015 high and the farm has been regrouping since. There’s no rush, thanks to all that previous work the farm has a good 2-3 years before there is any urgency to develop a full time starter on either side of the ball. The Cubs have clearly worked with that in mind - loading up on more teenagers than ever since July 2015 and getting some promising results so far as a whole. The seeds are planted for potential breakouts in 2019-2020 for a pretty large number of players. Maybe none of them hit but probably one maybe even two are really going to separate from the pack, and others still can fill other needs like trades, fill out the minors rosters, etc...

It’s not even as if the farm is unproductive. The lean year has yielded a cheap bench option already called up twice, more optionable pitching depth than usual for the ML squad, has an end of year top 100 prospect candidate in Amaya, and is proooobably going to help fill out a trade or two. Those sound like things an immediate WS contender would most want out of the farm system in it’s prime.

OTOH it does suck that the farm system is pretty boring until 10 PM ET these days.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby Hrubes20 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:59 am

With the caveat that the Smokies’ lineup isn’t good, Cease is owning them so far. 4 perfect innings with 7 Ks and only 50 pitches.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby PackLandVA » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:21 am

Up to 5 innings, 9 Ks and 62 pitches....perfect so far.

And Matt Rose has a dinger.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby Hrubes20 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:24 am

PackLandVA wrote:Up to 5 innings, 9 Ks and 62 pitches....perfect so far.

And Matt Rose has a dinger.


Don’t go look at Eloy shredding AAA. It’s painful. Thank goodness Q pitched well last outing.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:25 am

Hrubes20 wrote:
PackLandVA wrote:Up to 5 innings, 9 Ks and 62 pitches....perfect so far.

And Matt Rose has a dinger.


Don’t go look at Eloy shredding AAA. It’s painful. Thank goodness Q pitched well last outing.

He take a break from the DL to play a game? Neat. He’s going to have to hit like JD Martinez to carry any value.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby PackLandVA » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:29 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
Hrubes20 wrote:
PackLandVA wrote:Up to 5 innings, 9 Ks and 62 pitches....perfect so far.

And Matt Rose has a dinger.


Don’t go look at Eloy shredding AAA. It’s painful. Thank goodness Q pitched well last outing.

He take a break from the DL to play a game? Neat. He’s going to have to hit like JD Martinez to carry any value.


Big Jorge was mashing at all levels as well. But he could seem to stay healthy, and then his flaws were exposed in the Bigs. Next thing you know, he's a sub on a bad team (when he's not injured).
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:29 am

Hrubes20 wrote:With the caveat that the Smokies’ lineup isn’t good, Cease is owning them so far. 4 perfect innings with 7 Ks and only 50 pitches.

Is there a single position player in Tenn that’s remotely intriguing?? Legit asking, I just looked at their roster and didn’t recognize anyone but Shorts name on the position player side.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:31 am

Cubswin11 wrote:He take a break from the DL to play a game? Neat. He’s going to have to hit like JD Martinez to carry any value.


Ha! I feel like Jimenez’s low key propensity to miss games over nagging injuries gets downplayed.

As far as the Smokies...Short’s a little more serious a prospect than he seems to get viewed as but otherwise it’s a dumpster fire.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby Hrubes20 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:31 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
Hrubes20 wrote:With the caveat that the Smokies’ lineup isn’t good, Cease is owning them so far. 4 perfect innings with 7 Ks and only 50 pitches.

Is there a single position player in Tenn that’s remotely intriguing?? Legit asking, I just looked at their roster and didn’t recognize anyone but Shorts name on the position player side.


Giambrone and EJM to a much, much lesser extent.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby PackLandVA » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:36 am

I definitely love all the talent on the Cubs roster/starting lineup that was culled from their minor league system. But it was also a ton of fun following the prospects at different levels, gushing over their stats, and dreaming what the future held.
(of course, we all found out what the future held in 2016)
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby Hrubes20 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:39 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
Hrubes20 wrote:
PackLandVA wrote:Up to 5 innings, 9 Ks and 62 pitches....perfect so far.

And Matt Rose has a dinger.


Don’t go look at Eloy shredding AAA. It’s painful. Thank goodness Q pitched well last outing.

He take a break from the DL to play a game? Neat. He’s going to have to hit like JD Martinez to carry any value.


He’s played in 73 games this year. That’s a bad take. As is the second part. There is this thing called the DH in the AL. If his defense gets to the point that it is a negative, they can just put him there and take advantage of that ridiculous bat.

Edit: unless you were being sarcastic and I just missed it
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:48 am

Hrubes20 wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Hrubes20 wrote:
Don’t go look at Eloy shredding AAA. It’s painful. Thank goodness Q pitched well last outing.

He take a break from the DL to play a game? Neat. He’s going to have to hit like JD Martinez to carry any value.


He’s played in 73 games this year. That’s a bad take. As is the second part. There is this thing called the DH in the AL. If his defense gets to the point that it is a negative, they can just put him there and take advantage of that ridiculous bat.

Edit: unless you were being sarcastic and I just missed it

I wasn’t. I want to say he’s hit the DL 3 or 4 times this year and you really have to hit as a DH (which I believe he is) to have much value. Only 3 qualified guys over 2 WAR last year at DH and none over 3. He literally needs to be JD Martinez, peak Nelson Cruz, etc to be more than a 2-3 WAR player at DH. Which that’s fine, just his bat really needs to play for him to carry value.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby PackLandVA » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:55 am

Zack Short breaks up the perfect game with 2 outs in the 7th. Single off of Cease.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby Duke Silver » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:56 am

I'm not sure we'd have enough room on our team for a RH pinch hitter to go along with our LH pinch hitter.
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Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-25-18

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:02 am

PackLandVA wrote:Zack Short breaks up the perfect game with 2 outs in the 7th. Single off of Cease.

Look at that trade value!!! Short breaking up perfect games against a top prospect!!!!
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