Minor League Musings place holder.

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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:28 pm

Trevor Clifton was returned to AA Tennessee yesterday. Here are yesterday's Iowa and Tennessee games: https://www.thecubreporter.com/03222018 ... -riverview

Rademacher and Higgins hit home runs.

TENNESSEE LINEUP:
3a. Zack Short, SS: 1-3 (1B, K, K)

TENNESSEE PITCHERS:
1. Ryan Kellogg: 2.0 IP, 3 H, 1 R (1 ER), 2 BB, 1 K, 2/2 GO/AO, 36 pitches (21 strikes)

IOWA LINEUP:
2a. David Bote, SS-DH; 1-3 (1B, K, F-8)
3a. Mark Zagunis, LF: 1-2 (1B, K)
3b. Fernando Kelli, CF: 0-1 (6-3, BB)

IOWA PITCHERS:
1. Jen-Ho Tseng: 2.2 IP, 6 H, 2 R (2 ER), 2 BB, 2 K, 1 HBP, 1 HR, 2/3 GO/AO, 62 pitches (39 strikes)
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:27 pm

It's pretty much standard procedure and happens to most teen prospects who may or may not eventually show something, but I notice and like Jose Gutierrez getting reps with all the full season ST squads. He's one I would like to see become a thing just because I am a sucker for the switch hitter + up the middle combo in a prospect (especially the switch hitting). He showed some playmaking and power/speed ability in the DSL a couple years ago at 17.

I know Fernando Kelli got the love last year for his DSL slash and stolen bases (spent yesterday on Iowa's ST squad), but between the two I see more to like in Gutierrez long term if that can be a thing for two guys who are still shooting for any prospect status. Gutierrez is the one that got the stateside promotion at 18, is the one still switch hitting after both were signed as such, Gutierrez will play all year at 19 vs. Kelli turning 20 mid-summer, Gutierrez outplayed him in the DSL when they were both there....

Here's a clip of Kelli:



I couldn't take anything out of it but him being fast. Maybe the swing is all upper body, and maybe the frame is not as projectable as I hoped.

Someone in this pool of toolsy but raw OF group (Wilson, Velazquez, Sierra, Gutierrez, Kelli, etc?) is going to step up and show a starter's ceiling. Velazquez easily has the lead right now with his Puig-ish body and tools.
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby CubsWin » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:59 pm

Regular Show wrote:
CubsWin wrote:Heck, if you want to go a few years further back, since Paredes and Cease are so far away, we could include prospects (at the time of their trade) LeMahieu and Godley and have a pretty decent major league line up.

2B - LeMahieu (29)
SS - Torres (21)
LF - Jimenez (21)
RF - Soler (26)
3B - Candelario (24)
C - Caratini (24)
1B - Vogelbach (25)
CF - McKinney (23)
SP - Godley (27)

That team may not be going to the playoffs, but they'd win some games and have a bright future. The weakest link is McKinney in CF. I'm sure I'm forgetting people. Have the Cubs traded away a decent CF prospect?


How could you forget the immortal Tony Campana lol?

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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby Regular Show » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:20 am

I didn't know where to place this, but Eric Longenhagen is the lead prospect analyst for Fangraphs and covers the minors. I love this pic he took:



I'd have a large grin on my face if I saw this while driving lol.
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:23 am

Regular Show wrote:I didn't know where to place this, but Eric Longenhagen is the lead prospect analyst for Fangraphs and covers the minors. I love this pic he took:



I'd have a large grin on my face if I saw this while driving lol.

Then you’d get a look at the guy driving an Infiniti Q and realize he was probably a bigger douche than Trump
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby Regular Show » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:26 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
Regular Show wrote:I didn't know where to place this, but Eric Longenhagen is the lead prospect analyst for Fangraphs and covers the minors. I love this pic he took:



I'd have a large grin on my face if I saw this while driving lol.

Then you’d realize the guy driving an Infiniti Q was probably a bigger douche than Trump


That's possible, but it's really hard to imagine someone being a bigger douche than Trump.
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:29 am

Regular Show wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Regular Show wrote:I didn't know where to place this, but Eric Longenhagen is the lead prospect analyst for Fangraphs and covers the minors. I love this pic he took:



I'd have a large grin on my face if I saw this while driving lol.

Then you’d realize the guy driving an Infiniti Q was probably a bigger douche than Trump


That's possible, but it's really hard to imagine someone being a bigger douche than Trump.

Imagine the guy from Breaking Bad (also was in BCS) who drives the red BMW convertible that Walt fries the battery on. That’s how I imagine every guy who drives an Infiniti Q acts like and that guy definitely gives Trump a run for his money on douche chills.
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:35 am

Cubswin11 wrote:Imagine the guy from Breaking Bad (also was in BCS) who drives the red BMW convertible that Walt fries the battery on. That’s how I imagine every guy who drives an Infiniti Q acts like and that guy definitely gives Trump a run for his money on douche chills.

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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby CubsWin » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:00 am

The latest on possible minor league rotations from AZ Phil:

Interesting battle in progress for Opening Day starting rotations at the Cubs four full-season affiliates:

IOWA: Tseng, Mills, Farrell, Zastryzny, and Underwood have the inside track right now, with Roth and/or Camarena (and perhaps eventually Bass) in the mix as piggy-backers or swing-men. Hedges, Pugliese, and Markey have been used only as relievers so far. Webster, Hultzen, and R. Williams are in the Rehab Throwing Program and almost certainly will be left behind at EXST.

TENNESSEE: Alzolay, Clifton, Hatch, and Robinson virtual locks, with Rucker, Kellogg, and/or K. Miller competing for the 5th slot (the other two could be piggy-backers/swing-men). Morrison, Bloomquist, and Perakslis have been used only as relievers so far but could possibly be piggybackers/swing-man (but not rotation starters).

MYRTLE BEACH: de la Cruz and Paulino are virtual locks, with Hudson, Moreno, Lange, Thomas, Thompson, T. Miller, and/or Swarmer competing for the other three slots and probably two piggy-back/swing-men slots. A couple could get moved-down to South Bend by the end of Minor League Camp. Leal and M. Rondon are in the Rehab Throwing Program and will almost certainly be left behind at EXST.

SOUTH BEND: Albertos, Little, Uelmen, Abbott, Assad, Camargo, and/or B. Clark are competing for five slots, with the additional possibility that a couple of the Myrtle Beach SP candidates could move down to South Bend by the end of Minor League Camp.
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby weis21 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:29 am

regular show has turned me into a faux tseng fan into a for real tseng fan.

in B2B style i'm planning on emailing theo and suggesting that jen-ho and hendricks should face time every night to talk about pitching (and other things like the current re-run of shark tank or what's on food network i don't know i'm just saying). with time, he will emerge from seemingly out of nowhere into the next great thing and everyone loves him like we love kyle.

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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby Regular Show » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:51 am

weis21 wrote:regular show has turned me into a faux tseng fan into a for real tseng fan.

in B2B style i'm planning on emailing theo and suggesting that jen-ho and hendricks should face time every night to talk about pitching (and other things like the current re-run of shark tank or what's on food network i don't know i'm just saying). with time, he will emerge from seemingly out of nowhere into the next great thing and everyone loves him like we love kyle.


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So you're a faux Tseng fan that uses his image for your avatar pic? Okay sure...
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:15 pm

how in the wide wide world of sports is Rucker not clearly first in line for rotation innings among him, Duncan Robinson, Kyle Miller, and Ryan Kellogg

I mean as resident Rucker superfan I could probably throw Clifton in that group too, but come on, Duncan Robinson?
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby Hrubes20 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:17 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:how in the wide wide world of sports is Rucker not clearly first in line for rotation innings among him, Duncan Robinson, Kyle Miller, and Ryan Kellogg

I mean as resident Rucker superfan I could probably throw Clifton in that group too, but come on, Duncan Robinson?


Over Miller and Kellogg, absolutely. Robinson is actually kind of interesting though. Better frame than Rucker to handle a starter's workload. Much better breaking ball. Induces a lot of groundballs, and more than Rucker. Maybe they want to groom Rucker in a swingman type role right now, as they perceive that to be his most valuable spot in the bigs (assuming he makes it). I could see it.
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:24 pm

Hrubes20 wrote:Over Miller and Kellogg, absolutely. Robinson is actually kind of interesting though. Better frame than Rucker to handle a starter's workload. Much better breaking ball. Induces a lot of groundballs, and more than Rucker. Maybe they want to groom Rucker in a swingman type role right now, as they perceive that to be his most valuable spot in the bigs (assuming he makes it). I could see it.


At the risk of being overly blunt on minor leaguers so early, no he is not. I could see Rucker in a swing role for the ML club eventually if he survives but he'll probably be in Tennessee's rotaion when the season opens.
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:04 pm

Hrubes20 wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:how in the wide wide world of sports is Rucker not clearly first in line for rotation innings among him, Duncan Robinson, Kyle Miller, and Ryan Kellogg

I mean as resident Rucker superfan I could probably throw Clifton in that group too, but come on, Duncan Robinson?


Over Miller and Kellogg, absolutely. Robinson is actually kind of interesting though. Better frame than Rucker to handle a starter's workload. Much better breaking ball. Induces a lot of groundballs, and more than Rucker. Maybe they want to groom Rucker in a swingman type role right now, as they perceive that to be his most valuable spot in the bigs (assuming he makes it). I could see it.


Robinson is older than Rucker(one of the most common issues folks have with him) and is materially worse at getting K's while no better at avoiding baserunners. If anything Robinson at his advanced age and lack of missed bats should be rushed to the pen to see if he sees an uptick in stuff.
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby davell » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:14 pm

I'm with Hrubes on Robinson. He's a 91-93 guy who knows how to pitch. He's got 4 or 5 pitches and changes speeds well. He's not Hendricks, but he did go to Dartmouth, at least.

Honestly, its kind of a pet peeve of mine when age gets brought up in relation to where a guys at, when he's only had one full season in the minors. Especially with our group, who aren't exactly quick on promotions. If Robinson and Rucker are in the AA rotation to start off their 2nd full season? That's great, in my mind.....

I'm obviously much higher on Rucker than Robinson too, but I think both definitively deserve full rotation innings over some of that other pure crap competing against them.
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby David » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:35 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Regular Show wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Then you’d realize the guy driving an Infiniti Q was probably a bigger douche than Trump


That's possible, but it's really hard to imagine someone being a bigger douche than Trump.

Imagine the guy from Breaking Bad (also was in BCS) who drives the red BMW convertible that Walt fries the battery on. That’s how I imagine every guy who drives an Infiniti Q acts like and that guy definitely gives Trump a run for his money on douche chills.


you have weirdly strong opinions on such an innocuous boring japanese luxury car
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:39 pm

davell wrote:I'm with Hrubes on Robinson. He's a 91-93 guy who knows how to pitch. He's got 4 or 5 pitches and changes speeds well. He's not Hendricks, but he did go to Dartmouth, at least.

Honestly, its kind of a pet peeve of mine when age gets brought up in relation to where a guys at, when he's only had one full season in the minors. Especially with our group, who aren't exactly quick on promotions. If Robinson and Rucker are in the AA rotation to start off their 2nd full season? That's great, in my mind.....

I'm obviously much higher on Rucker than Robinson too, but I think both definitively deserve full rotation innings over some of that other pure crap competing against them.


Is this true or is it mostly that most guys don't earn promotions so fast? This is the same FO that has had several teenagers in full season ball during very recent seasons, got Russell and Baez to the MLs by 20/21, Bryant and Schwarber in the majors during their first or second pro seasons....
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby davell » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:54 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:I'm with Hrubes on Robinson. He's a 91-93 guy who knows how to pitch. He's got 4 or 5 pitches and changes speeds well. He's not Hendricks, but he did go to Dartmouth, at least.

Honestly, its kind of a pet peeve of mine when age gets brought up in relation to where a guys at, when he's only had one full season in the minors. Especially with our group, who aren't exactly quick on promotions. If Robinson and Rucker are in the AA rotation to start off their 2nd full season? That's great, in my mind.....

I'm obviously much higher on Rucker than Robinson too, but I think both definitively deserve full rotation innings over some of that other pure crap competing against them.


Is this true or is it mostly that most guys don't earn promotions so fast? This is the same FO that has had several teenagers in full season ball during very recent seasons, got Russell and Baez to the MLs by 20/21, Bryant and Schwarber in the majors during their first or second pro seasons....


Yeah, you're right. They've had a few. But they're all elite, top 20ish prospects. I guess Happ is the lowest ranked guy?

No pitchers though. Talent helps. Maybe we'll get a better indicator, with Lange this year?

Just those 2 guys 2nd full year, obviously important for them. If they're truly highly thought of, they'll hit Iowa by midseason and maybe get a few ML innings in September.

Which would be fascinating and excellent draft results for a college senior and a 4th year junior that weren't taken inside the top 200 picks.
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby CubsWin » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:56 pm

davell wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:I'm with Hrubes on Robinson. He's a 91-93 guy who knows how to pitch. He's got 4 or 5 pitches and changes speeds well. He's not Hendricks, but he did go to Dartmouth, at least.

Honestly, its kind of a pet peeve of mine when age gets brought up in relation to where a guys at, when he's only had one full season in the minors. Especially with our group, who aren't exactly quick on promotions. If Robinson and Rucker are in the AA rotation to start off their 2nd full season? That's great, in my mind.....

I'm obviously much higher on Rucker than Robinson too, but I think both definitively deserve full rotation innings over some of that other pure crap competing against them.


Is this true or is it mostly that most guys don't earn promotions so fast? This is the same FO that has had several teenagers in full season ball during very recent seasons, got Russell and Baez to the MLs by 20/21, Bryant and Schwarber in the majors during their first or second pro seasons....


Yeah, you're right. They've had a few. But they're all elite, top 20ish prospects. I guess Happ is the lowest ranked guy?

No pitchers though. Talent helps. Maybe we'll get a better indicator, with Lange this year?

Just those 2 guys 2nd full year, obviously important for them. If they're truly highly thought of, they'll hit Iowa by midseason and maybe get a few ML innings in September.

Which would be fascinating and excellent draft results for a college senior and a 4th year junior that weren't taken inside the top 200 picks.

There are a lot of reasons why teams might promote a player. If they believe he has the make-up to battle through some struggles, they may promote him more aggressively (especially if he is already considered a top-ish prospect and/or at a position of need). There may be a log jam at one level and someone has to get kicked up a level (sometimes this is an indication that they think that player is the most ready of that lower group, other times it's because they consider him more of an organizational guy). They could promote a guy to have him work with a specific manager or coach. Heck, a team could promote a guy so that he will struggle and get humbled a bit. It's difficult to know case to case. Generally, it's good thing.

In this specific case, it seems to me that two things are at play. First, the Cubs have gone so heavily pitching (especially college arms) in the last few drafts, that they have too many possible starters for each level. It's not just in Tennessee that we are seeing this situation arise. It is normal to have piggy-back starters in South Bend, but this year we are seeing that possibility all the way up through AA. Second, Duncan Robinson acquitted himself quite well last year. He was 23 facing players with much less experience in the MWL and the CL. Maybe the Cubs want to see how his stuff fares against players of a similar age and experience level. You could easily make the argument that De La Cruz is ready for AA, but he's starting off in Myrtle Beach again. Maybe the Cubs wanted De La Cruz to start in Myrtle Beach because he'd be more comfortable there or because their trainer has a history with him and someone had to move up. Who knows?

Ultimately, the reasons are vague enough and the pitching roster is deep enough that this isn't really a big deal. The season is long and players' performances will clarify things over the coming months.
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby craig » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:39 pm

davell wrote:I'm with Hrubes on Robinson. He's a 91-93 guy who knows how to pitch. He's got 4 or 5 pitches and changes speeds well. He's not Hendricks, but he did go to Dartmouth, at least.

Honestly, its kind of a pet peeve of mine when age gets brought up in relation to where a guys at, when he's only had one full season in the minors. Especially with our group, who aren't exactly quick on promotions. If Robinson and Rucker are in the AA rotation to start off their 2nd full season? That's great, in my mind.....

I'm obviously much higher on Rucker than Robinson too, but I think both definitively deserve full rotation innings over some of that other pure crap competing against them.


1. I wonder if Robinson really is regularly working 91-93, versus "touching". Working 91-93, that would be no slower than Abbott or Thompson or Uelmann, probably Lange either. Faster than Lester or Hendricks. Comparable to Arrieta and Quintana. Somehow I'm guessing that his actual routine velocity is maybe a little slower? or else that his spin rate is slow for is velocity, or something? But somehow I don't guess that his fastball is actually as good? But, what do I know....

2. Agree with peeve. Any college pick who isn't a 1st-round-lightning-promotion stud is never going to win the age game; different age track than HS or internationals. Of course they'll be "old". Doesn't mean a guy can't still become a useful major league guy. As you say, Rucker and Robinson are both AA in 2nd-full-spring; that's reasonably fast. If same arms had signed at 17, they might have same future/potential but have reached AA two years younger. Doesn't mean they are less talented this way....

3. College guys can still improve. Even Lange, big SEC star, I think he still has lots to add/learn/adjust. (Change; use of 4-seam; pitching up as well as down; learning and integrating cutter.) Can be even more true for low-level guys (Dartmouth; Kyle Miller Florida Atlantic; Tyson Miller California Baptist.) The needs and coaching may not have pushed them to diversity their arsenals.

4. Kyle Miller has a 3.18 ERA thus far. Perhaps "pure crap" doesn't necessarily apply for any of Rucker, Robinson, or Miller, or Clifton either?

5. Justin Hancock is 27. I'm guessing he probably wasn't throwing 96-97 consistently prior to draft (or he'd have gone higher than 9th round)? Sometimes college picks can not only improve their repertoire, they can also sometimes get faster too?
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:49 pm

https://www.thecubreporter.com/03242018 ... rview#more

RHP Tyson Miler (Cubs 2016 4th round draft pick - California Baptist) got the start for Myrtle Beach and retired nine of the first ten men he faced (including five on strikeouts) before allowing back-to-back doubles and a two-run HR to the first three batters he faced in the top of the 4th (he then retired the side in order).

RHP Bailey Clark (Cubs 2016 5th round draft pick - Duke) piggy-backed with South Bend SP Rollie Lacy (Cubs 2017 11th round draft pick - Creighton), and while Clark's FB velo was an impressive 96-97 and his SL had good break, he had terrible command (he needed 57 pitches to get eight outs, he couldn't finish his third inning, he committed a throwing error on a pick-off attempt at 2nd base, and he threw only 47% strikes).


Keegan Thompson threw 4 scoreless for Myrtle Beach. Kwangmin Kwon hit a HR for South Bend.
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:15 pm

https://www.thecubreporter.com/03262018 ... ers-diablo

MYRTLE BEACH LINEUP:
1. D. J. Wilson, CF: 2-4 (1B, 1B, 1-3, K, R, RBI, SB)

MYRTLE BEACH PITCHERS:
1. Jose Paulino: 4.0 IP, 6 H, 3 R (3 ER) 2 BB, 4 K, 2/3 GO/AO, 73 pitches (44 strikes)

SOUTH BEND LINEUP:
3. Christopher Morel, 3B: 1-4 (E-5, 1B, 3-U, F-7, R)
4a. Miguel Amaya, C: 2-3 (1B, 6-3, 1B)
4b. Alexander Guerra, C: 0-1 (K)
5a. Jonathan Sierra, RF: 1-2 (1B, 4-3, BB, RBI)

SOUTH BEND PITCHERS:
1. Javier Assad: 3.0 IP, 2 H, 3 R (2 ER), 3 BB, 6 K, 1 WP, 3/0 GO/AO, 74 pitches (42 strikes)

SOUTH BEND CATCHERS DEFENSE:
1. Miguel Amaya: 1-2 CS, 1 PB
2. Alexander Guerra: 1 PB
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Re: Minor League Musings place holder.

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:57 pm

davell wrote:Yeah, you're right. They've had a few. But they're all elite, top 20ish prospects. I guess Happ is the lowest ranked guy?


I think it's less about being elite and more about being a performer. As I mentioned, several teenagers have been moved very aggressively regardless of pedigree, signing bonus, and perceived upside. They've all had performance and/or polish in common. I just don't buy this FO is slow to promote. Hell, that Robinson seems to have a shot at the AA rotation already speaks to their willingness to promote the performers, elite prospect or not. Rucker, Hatch, and Mekkes will all start in AA pretty quickly as pros, maybe a little of that is age but also because they've performed. They also promoted Rucker to High A after only a dozen innings with South Bend, possibly because of his strong pro debut debut (18/1 K:BB in 12.2 with 0 HR) in 2016 including a quick stop in Eugene.

Robinson's less interesting than Rucker more because Rucker threw more innings in High A, struck out hitters at a higher rate, walked hitters at a lower rate, throws harder...Rucker's also the fresher arm between the two thanks to BYU stuff and things.
Last edited by TomtheBombadil on Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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