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 Post subject: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Box Scores

Iowa lost 13-12 Box Score

CF B. Jackson 2/5, 2 R, 2B (18), 3B (10), 2 RBI, BB, K
2B A. Cardenas 3/5, 2 R, 2 2B (11), RBI, BB
3B J. Vitters 3/6, 2 R, 2 2B (21), RBI
C W. Castillo 1/4, R, RBI, K, HBP
RF D. Sappelt 1/3, 2 R, HR (4), RBI, 2 BB, K
1B B. Lalli 3/4, 2 R, 2B (9), 3 RBI, BB
SP F. De La Cruz 4.1 IP, 8 H, 9 R, 7 ER, 2 BB, 2 K, 3 WP, 7-3 GO-FO, 99-59 pitches-strikes
RP J. Jackson 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 2 K, 1-0 GO-FO
RP M. Bowden 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 3 K

Tennessee lost 3-0 Box Score

2B L. Watkins 0/3, BB, K, HBP
C JH Ha 1/3, 2B (18), BB
SS J. Lake 0/4, K, 2 E (20, throw, fielding)
1B J. Bour 3/4, 2 2B (23), K
SP N. Struck 5 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 3 BB, 2 K, 10-3 GO-FO, 92-55 pitches-strikes; hitting: 0/1, BB, K
RP C. Harman 2 IP, H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 4 K, WP, 1-1 GO-FO
RP C. Weathers 1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 1 K, 2-0 GO-FO

Daytona lost 5-3 Box Score

SS A. Alcantara 0/3, BB, 2 K, E (31, fielding)
2B R. Torreyes 0/2, HBP
CF M. Szczur 1/3, R, 2B (15), RBI, BB, K, outfield assist at second base
1B R. Ridling 2/3, R, 2 2B (5), RBI, BB
LF J. Andreoli 0/2, RBI, BB, E (5, fielding)
SP M. Loosen 6 IP, 6 H, 4 R, 3 ER, 2 BB, 2 K, WP, 8-6 GO-FO
RP AJ Morris 2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K, 4-0 GO-FO

Peoria lost 7-2 Box Score

2B Z. DeVoss 1/3, RBI, BB, CS (7), E (13, throw)
CF T. Easterling 3/3, HBP, SB (15), 2 CS (7)
DH D. Geiger 2/3, HBP
SS Ja. Baez 1/3, R, HBP
RF O. Zapata 1/4, K, CS (9)
SP S. Peralta 8 IP, 4 H, 3 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 2 K, HBP, 16-4 GO-FO

Boise in progress Box Score

2B G. Amaya 0/4, 2 K
SS M. Hernandez 0/5, K
3B-1B J. Candelario 2/5, K
DH C. Krist 3/3, BB, PO (1)
RF B. Rademacher 1/4
CF T. Martin 1/4, 2 K
1B R. Shoulders 0/3
LF DY Kim 2/4, 2B (2), HR (3), RBI, K
SP J. Pugliese 4 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 5 K, HBP, 7-0 GO-FO, E (1, fielding)
RP R. Diplan 0.2 IP, 0 H, 1 ER, 3 BB, 0 K, 1-1 GO-FO

AZL Cubs in progress Box Score

CF R. Crawford 0/4, R, BB, 2 K
SS T. Saunders 2/4, 2 R, RBI, BB
1B D. Vogelbach 4/5, 2 R, 3B (1), HR (1), 3 RBI - first professional HR
2B C. Penalver 1/5, RBI, E (3, throw)
LF G. Schlecht 0/2, R, 2 BB, K
SP E. Elias 3 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 3 K, 2-3 GO-FO
RP N. Dorris 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 1 K, 2 GO-0 FO
RP S. Perakslis 2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 2 K, 3-1 GO-FO

DSL Cubs 1 and 2 have the day off.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:40 pm 
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Probable Starters

Iowa: RHP Frankie De La Cruz (2.90 ERA, 4.85 FIP, 62 IP, 33 K, 34 BB)
Tennessee: RHP Nick Struck (3.74 ERA, 4.07 FIP, 89 IP, 72 K, 30 BB)
Daytona: RHP Matt Loosen (3.00 ERA, 4.34 FIP, 60 IP, 59 K, 22 BB)
Peoria: RHP Starling Peralta (4.30 ERA, 6.12 FIP, 23 IP, 13 K, 13 BB)
Boise: RHP James Pugliese (4.91 ERA, 4.20 FIP, 14.2 IP, 8 K, 6 BB)
AZL Cubs: RHP Alvido Jimenez (10.50 ERA, 6.06 FIP, 6 IP, 6 K, 3 BB)


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Quote:
(@Vinestal)
6/30/12 3:49 PM
@dsmaples are they giving you any kind of idea when you'll be able to pitch again? What's the diagnosis? Rest and rehab till its better?


Quote:
Dillon Maples (@dsmaples)
7/1/12 3:44 AM
@Vinestal I'll be throwing in games in july


So he still believes he'll be pitching in games soon. Hopefully he's right.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:23 pm 
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Starling Peralta with a really nice outing - 8 IP, 4 H, 3 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 2 K, 16-4 pitches-strikes.

I'm pretty sure that's the longest outing by a Cub in the minors all season.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:29 pm 
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CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Starling Peralta with a really nice outing - 8 IP, 4 H, 3 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 2 K, 16-4 pitches-strikes.

I'm pretty sure that's the longest outing by a Cub in the minors all season.


16 groundball outs, wow.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Baez 1/3 with a 2B.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:06 pm 
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larry suarez can't be too far from being released. pretty disappointing given that he got a sizable bonus IIRC.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Have a seat, Neifi wrote:
Baez 1/3 with a 2B.


He was also hit again.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Vinestal wrote:
Quote:
(@Vinestal)
6/30/12 3:49 PM
@dsmaples are they giving you any kind of idea when you'll be able to pitch again? What's the diagnosis? Rest and rehab till its better?


Quote:
Dillon Maples (@dsmaples)
7/1/12 3:44 AM
@Vinestal I'll be throwing in games in july


So he still believes he'll be pitching in games soon. Hopefully he's right.


Sweet. Can't wait to have a starting pitching prospect who's ceiling isn't Casey Coleman.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:54 pm 
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TruffleShuffle wrote:
larry suarez can't be too far from being released. pretty disappointing given that he got a sizable bonus IIRC.


Yeah, gotta believe Suarez and Hayden Simpson will be cut this offseason.


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 Post subject: Re: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:00 pm 
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TruffleShuffle wrote:
larry suarez can't be too far from being released. pretty disappointing given that he got a sizable bonus IIRC.


Larry Suarez can't be a real name.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Szczur is 1-2 with a double, a walk and an OF assist.

I'm pretty close to moving him above Brett on my prospect list despite the difference in level.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Come on now, it's one thing to worry about Jackson's strikeouts, but to value them over superior production two levels higher(and in their entire careers) while being only 11 months older is a little crazy.


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 Post subject: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Things going normally in Iowa. Brett with a K and Vitters with an RBI double

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Jackson with an RBI double. It's unreal what kind of production he can maintain in his non-K PAs.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Come on now, it's one thing to worry about Jackson's strikeouts, but to value them over superior production two levels higher(and in their entire careers) while being only 11 months older is a little crazy.


Well, I'd certainly call Szczur's production this year higher. An .800 OPS in the FSL with a .390 OBP is better value than an .830 in the PCL with a .340 OBP, and it really isn't that close. That's even taking into account the fact that one is a somewhat raw 22 year old in high A while the other one is 23 in AAA.

Then you look at the other factors. Jackson definitely has a much better minor league track record before this year. Jackson also has the higher ceiling, although Sczcur is more likely to stick in CF. But I think I'd label Sczcur as the safer one to hit his ceiling at this point because of Jackson's strikeout issues and the fact that Sczcur is going to get more value out of his defense (which is more easily projectable than offense). While Sczcur is still 2 levels below which throws more uncertainty in, his BB/K ratio and his speed should make him less prone to numbers collapsing at a higher level than some other prospects.

So I'd probably give it to Jackson, but I could see people putting Sczcur ahead because there are so few comparables to what Jackson is doing right now. While Sczcur has definitely taken some big steps foward as a prospect this year, if you put him ahead of Jackson that's more of an indictment of Jackson than anything IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:01 pm 
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To temper some of the Vitters love. He's left 5 runners on base the last 2 times at bat, with popouts in foul territory (neither got past the dugout) on a combined 3 pitches.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:09 pm 
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CubColtPacer wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Come on now, it's one thing to worry about Jackson's strikeouts, but to value them over superior production two levels higher(and in their entire careers) while being only 11 months older is a little crazy.


Well, I'd certainly call Szczur's production this year higher. An .800 OPS in the FSL with a .390 OBP is better value than an .830 in the PCL with a .340 OBP, and it really isn't that close. That's even taking into account the fact that one is a somewhat raw 22 year old in high A while the other one is 23 in AAA.

Then you look at the other factors. Jackson definitely has a much better minor league track record before this year. Jackson also has the higher ceiling, although Sczcur is more likely to stick in CF. But I think I'd label Sczcur as the safer one to hit his ceiling at this point because of Jackson's strikeout issues and the fact that Sczcur is going to get more value out of his defense (which is more easily projectable than offense). While Sczcur is still 2 levels below which throws more uncertainty in, his BB/K ratio and his speed should make him less prone to numbers collapsing at a higher level than some other prospects.

So I'd probably give it to Jackson, but I could see people putting Sczcur ahead because there are so few comparables to what Jackson is doing right now. While Sczcur has definitely taken some big steps foward as a prospect this year, if you put him ahead of Jackson that's more of an indictment of Jackson than anything IMO.


Track record is the key for me. Jackson's Daytona numbers run circles around Szczur's. Granted they are completely different players (Jackson in a different class power-wise). And it's hard for me to say Szczur is a safer bet to hit his ceiling, because he has a couple levels to go before the majors. Jackson is a call-up away from the majors. His K rate wasn't that bad in the lower levels of the minors, and while it's not likely to be anything as disturbing as Brett is going thru right now, Szczur could very well have more trouble making contact when he faces more experienced pitchers.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:23 pm 
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rawaction wrote:
To temper some of the Vitters love. He's left 5 runners on base the last 2 times at bat, with popouts in foul territory (neither got past the dugout) on a combined 3 pitches.


4 pitches seen in 3 plate appearances today :x

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Brett fills out a boxscore line better than anyone. 3 plate appearances, a K, a walk, a double, a steal, a run, and an RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:54 pm 
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rawaction wrote:
CubColtPacer wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Come on now, it's one thing to worry about Jackson's strikeouts, but to value them over superior production two levels higher(and in their entire careers) while being only 11 months older is a little crazy.


Well, I'd certainly call Szczur's production this year higher. An .800 OPS in the FSL with a .390 OBP is better value than an .830 in the PCL with a .340 OBP, and it really isn't that close. That's even taking into account the fact that one is a somewhat raw 22 year old in high A while the other one is 23 in AAA.

Then you look at the other factors. Jackson definitely has a much better minor league track record before this year. Jackson also has the higher ceiling, although Sczcur is more likely to stick in CF. But I think I'd label Sczcur as the safer one to hit his ceiling at this point because of Jackson's strikeout issues and the fact that Sczcur is going to get more value out of his defense (which is more easily projectable than offense). While Sczcur is still 2 levels below which throws more uncertainty in, his BB/K ratio and his speed should make him less prone to numbers collapsing at a higher level than some other prospects.

So I'd probably give it to Jackson, but I could see people putting Sczcur ahead because there are so few comparables to what Jackson is doing right now. While Sczcur has definitely taken some big steps foward as a prospect this year, if you put him ahead of Jackson that's more of an indictment of Jackson than anything IMO.


Track record is the key for me. Jackson's Daytona numbers run circles around Szczur's. Granted they are completely different players (Jackson in a different class power-wise). And it's hard for me to say Szczur is a safer bet to hit his ceiling, because he has a couple levels to go before the majors. Jackson is a call-up away from the majors. His K rate wasn't that bad in the lower levels of the minors, and while it's not likely to be anything as disturbing as Brett is going thru right now, Szczur could very well have more trouble making contact when he faces more experienced pitchers.


Exactly.

Jackson in Daytona (Age 21): 312 PA, .316/.420/.517, 20% K%, 14% BB%
Szczur in Daytona (Age 22): 258 PA, .289/387/.410, 14% K%, 12% BB%

And this is Szczur's 2nd attempt at Daytona. Not that we shouldn't be happy with Szczur's progress this year or prospect status, but I think we're going a little too far with the Jackson pessimism.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:02 pm 
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Jackson RBI triple in the 6th.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:05 pm 
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Brett Jackson is weird

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:15 pm 
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Vitters with another double. First pitch, of course.

I'm waving the white flag on Jackson hating. I didn't think he could keep getting XBHs at this rate, but he does.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-12
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
but I think we're going a little too far with the Jackson pessimism.


agreed. the strikeouts are a concern, but he still does a lot of things well. if we're not counting rizzo any more, i'd still have him up with almora (assuming he signs) and baez, still pretty solidly ahead of vitters and szczur and (i guess) candelario.

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