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Vote for #4 Prospect
Poll ended at Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:20 pm
Gioskar Amaya 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Brett Jackson 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Pierce Johnson 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Junior Lake 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Dillon Maples 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Juan Paniagua 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Matt Szczur 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Ronald Torreyes 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Duane Underwood 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Christian Villanueva 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Josh Vitters 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Arodys Vizcaino 82%  82%  [ 47 ]
Dan Vogelbach 14%  14%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 57
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 Post subject: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Please vote for the Cubs #4 prospect (serious votes only, please!). Please post your rationale below.

If someone convinces you that someone else should be higher, please feel free to change your vote anytime between now and Thursday.

Also, since the overall discussion thread points towards there being three realistic candidates for each of the next three spots, I'm only allowing one vote at a time right now. As we get to #5 and later, I'll allow multiple choices per vote.

Results so far:

#1: Javier Baez
#2: Jorge Soler
#3: Albert Almora


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:38 pm 
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Is the person who voted for Vogelbach that excited about his offensive potential or that worried about Vizcaino's health?


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Tim wrote:
Is the person who voted for Vogelbach that excited about his offensive potential or that worried about Vizcaino's health?


Yes. Mostly the first one.

And while Vizcaino is being painted as nearly ready, he has like 23 innings above AA.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:42 pm 
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KyleJRM wrote:
Tim wrote:
Is the person who voted for Vogelbach that excited about his offensive potential or that worried about Vizcaino's health?


Yes. Mostly the first one.

Definitely understandable on both counts. I was tempted to vote for Vogelbach myself, actually. If I thought he were going to be able to provide any positive value on defense or basepaths, I would have done so. But I keep picturing how Fielder isn't worth nearly as much as his offense would lead you to believe because of those factors. I think Vogelbach will be at least as bad as Fielder on those two counts and Prince is the absolute top end of projections for him as a hitter.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:43 pm 
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KyleJRM wrote:
Tim wrote:
Is the person who voted for Vogelbach that excited about his offensive potential or that worried about Vizcaino's health?


Yes. Mostly the first one.

And while Vizcaino is being painted as nearly ready, he has like 23 innings above AA.

Just saw your edit...

It's a good thing that he'll likely spend at least the first half in Iowa, then.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Tim wrote:
Definitely understandable on both counts. I was tempted to vote for Vogelbach myself, actually. If I thought he were going to be able to provide any positive value on defense or basepaths, I would have done so. But I keep picturing how Fielder isn't worth nearly as much as his offense would lead you to believe because of those factors. I think Vogelbach will be at least as bad as Fielder on those two counts and Prince is the absolute top end of projections for him as a hitter.


Part of me wants to just chuck WAR out entirely because I'm not at all convinced it's properly weighing offense and defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:44 pm 
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KyleJRM wrote:
Tim wrote:
Is the person who voted for Vogelbach that excited about his offensive potential or that worried about Vizcaino's health?


Yes. Mostly the first one.

And while Vizcaino is being painted as nearly ready, he has like 23 innings above AA.


And if somebody views Vizcaino ultimately as a pen arm, it's pretty easy to lean towards Vogelbach.

I'm undecided, myself. But I find it odd Tim was so surprised to see a non-Vizcaino vote. This one warrants real consideration.

Edit: perhaps Tim was just trying to stimulate conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:46 pm 
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KyleJRM wrote:
Tim wrote:
Definitely understandable on both counts. I was tempted to vote for Vogelbach myself, actually. If I thought he were going to be able to provide any positive value on defense or basepaths, I would have done so. But I keep picturing how Fielder isn't worth nearly as much as his offense would lead you to believe because of those factors. I think Vogelbach will be at least as bad as Fielder on those two counts and Prince is the absolute top end of projections for him as a hitter.


Part of me wants to just chuck WAR out entirely because I'm not at all convinced it's properly weighing offense and defense.

Whether you take WAR as gospel or not, though, it's pretty evident that Fielder gives value back on the bases and on the field. It was pretty shocking looking at how few bases he advances versus other runners.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:47 pm 
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Vogelbach doesn't necessarily have to have defensive value. His prospect value takes a nice leap in the AL, and it's likely his ultimate benefit to the Cubs is as trade bait.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Rob wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:
Tim wrote:
Is the person who voted for Vogelbach that excited about his offensive potential or that worried about Vizcaino's health?


Yes. Mostly the first one.

And while Vizcaino is being painted as nearly ready, he has like 23 innings above AA.


And if somebody views Vizcaino ultimately as a pen arm, it's pretty easy to lean towards Vogelbach.

I'm undecided, myself. But I find it odd Tim was so surprised to see a non-Vizcaino vote. This one warrants real consideration.

Edit: perhaps Tim was just trying to stimulate conversation.

I both expected to see Vizcaino dominate and I like there to be discussion about the choices.

Curious to see TT's post on people picking Vogelbach over Vizcaino, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:57 pm 
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I think I'd like to find any reason to vote for somebody other than Vizcaino, because a currently rehabbing post op 22 year old with less than 270 innings over 5 years as a pro leaves me with all sorts of doubts. But nobody else in the system is interesting enough to consider.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:07 pm 
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Tim wrote:
Rob wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:
Tim wrote:
Is the person who voted for Vogelbach that excited about his offensive potential or that worried about Vizcaino's health?


Yes. Mostly the first one.

And while Vizcaino is being painted as nearly ready, he has like 23 innings above AA.


And if somebody views Vizcaino ultimately as a pen arm, it's pretty easy to lean towards Vogelbach.

I'm undecided, myself. But I find it odd Tim was so surprised to see a non-Vizcaino vote. This one warrants real consideration.

Edit: perhaps Tim was just trying to stimulate conversation.

I both expected to see Vizcaino dominate and I like there to be discussion about the choices.

Curious to see TT's post on people picking Vogelbach over Vizcaino, though.


Lunatics, the lot of 'em.


Really though, I'm not 100% sold on Vizcaino as a super-stud or anything like that. But he's been very good, and I'm more confident in the success rate of Tommy John than I am the success rate of teenagers who hit in Boise/Peoria making it through to Chicago without busting or having their ceiling drastically lowered. I just think Vizcaino is a bit underrated because he's not the prospect Delgado is, he didn't come up through the system, and we haven't had any experience with him since he was acquired. Put his career to date entirely in a Cub uniform and I think you'd see him ranked differently is all.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Vizcaino. A 100% healthy Vizcaino would be in the question for 1-3, but then again, we never would have acquired a 100% healthy Vizcaino for scraps.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:23 pm 
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Vizcaino for me too.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Tim wrote:
Is the person who voted for Vogelbach that excited about his offensive potential or that worried about Vizcaino's health?


i voted for vogelbach because i think he is a unique hitter in terms of power potential.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:09 pm 
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CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Vizcaino for me too.


Me, too
Next pick gets more exciting


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Very intrigued by Vogelbach, but he needs to hit in high A before I stop having flashbacks of Brian Dopirak.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:22 pm 
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I voted for Vizcaino, but I think Vogelbach should be closer than he is.

I am a bit disappointed in the fact my inner monologue included a semi-convincing argument for Junior Lake's all-tools / no-polish approach this early in the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:41 pm 
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I might just have to look in the DB to see who voted for Vitters.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Tim wrote:
I might just have to look in the DB to see who voted for Vitters.


I thought it was surely you.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:43 pm 
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CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Tim wrote:
I might just have to look in the DB to see who voted for Vitters.


I thought it was surely you.

he's at least a couple down for me. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #4 Prospect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:48 pm 
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Tim wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Tim wrote:
I might just have to look in the DB to see who voted for Vitters.


I thought it was surely you.

he's at least a couple down for me. ;)


I still like him more than most, but he's probably floating around 10 for me.


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