North Side Baseball - Home Page

The place for discussion about the Chicago Cubs
It is currently Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:17 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Vote for #5 Prospect
Poll ended at Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:36 am
Arismendy Alcantara 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Gioskar Amaya 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Jeimer Candelario 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
Kyuji Fujikawa 3%  3%  [ 4 ]
Brett Jackson 18%  18%  [ 25 ]
Pierce Johnson 4%  4%  [ 6 ]
Junior Lake 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Dillon Maples 7%  7%  [ 10 ]
Juan Paniagua 20%  20%  [ 28 ]
Matt Szczur 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Ronald Torreyes 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Duane Underwood 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Christian Villanueva 8%  8%  [ 11 ]
Josh Vitters 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Dan Vogelbach 34%  34%  [ 48 ]
Total votes : 141
Author Message
 Post subject: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:36 am 
Offline
Hall of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:02 am
Posts: 35888
Location: Naperville, IL
This is where it starts to get interesting!

Please vote for the Cubs #5 prospect (serious votes only, please!). Please post your rationale below.

If someone convinces you that someone else should be higher, please feel free to change your vote anytime between now and Thursday.

As of this round, I'm going to start allowing multiple votes. So for this vote, you should select the players you feel should be #5, #6 and #7. If we end up with multiple players having similar vote totals at the end of the voting period, there will be a run-off with just those players.

Results so far:

#1: Javier Baez
#2: Jorge Soler
#3: Albert Almora
#4: Arodys Vizcaino


Top
 Profile  
 
 
google adsense
Post details
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:44 am 
Offline
5-Time All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:58 pm
Posts: 8435
Location: behind the boathouse
5) Christian Villanueva
6) Brett Jackson
7) Dan Vogelbach

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:53 am 
Offline
Hall of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:42 am
Posts: 27566
Location: Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man
5) Vogelbach
6) Panigua
7) Maples

Edit: Shoot, I forgot about Maples.

I'm refusing to vote for Fujikawa on principle.


Last edited by KyleJRM on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:53 am 
Offline
Inner-Circle HOF
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:20 am
Posts: 82614
Location: Pasadena, CA
Paniagua. High ceiling arm, two plus pitches and more advanced than the other high ceiling arms besides Vizcaino.

ETA:

5. Paniagua
6. Vogelbach
7. Fujikawa

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:55 am 
Offline
All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:22 pm
Posts: 3823
Location: A block from Wrigley
5) Vogelbach
6) Fujikawa
7) Candelario

_________________
Cause my life is dope and I do dope [expletive].

[The sound of fastballs] was one of those things that told me my pitches were fast....because I've never heard pitches as loud as mine.


Last edited by pitchcs on Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:55 am 
Offline
Formerly Nuts&Gum
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:45 pm
Posts: 45577
Location: Lincoln Park
5) Vogelbach
6) Fujikawa
7) Maples


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:56 am 
Offline
All-Star

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:10 am
Posts: 3343
I'm leaning Paniagua as well, but not with a load of enthusiasm about it. There's a notable gap after 4. For all the expectations that he's more polished than Underwood and others, well, that's still unknown. That said, the reports of his easy power and potential advanced secondary pitch gets the upside nod as of now, and I'll assume that he is a bit more developed than the raw arms.

Brett Jackson would be a close 6th, with Vogelbach a close 7th. I love Vogelbach's bat, but it's awful tough for me to put a 1st/DH corner slugger who hasn't hit full season ball yet at 5 this year. It's much easier to gamble on an arm with velocity like Paniagua, if you assume he is a bit more polished, than a bat, as it assumes that Vogelbach has a truly elite minor league bat. It's possible he does, but this far away, it's just too risky for me.


Last edited by toonsterwu on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:56 am 
Offline
5-Time All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:08 pm
Posts: 5016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
5) Vogelbach
6) Jackson
7) Johnson


Last edited by Vanilla Ice on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:57 am 
Offline
Hall of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:02 am
Posts: 35888
Location: Naperville, IL
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Paniagua. High ceiling arm, two plus pitches and more advanced than the other high ceiling arms besides Vizcaino.

Someone didn't read the instructions!

The reason I'm looking for three votes from everyone here is to catch things like if there's a group of people who think Paniagua (just to pick an example) should be #5, but nobody else sees him in the top 10. That could win him the vote at #5 even though most don't see him that high. What I'd like to do is have the picks weighted, but I don't see a way to do that. So we'll have to make this work for now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:58 am 
Offline
Inner-Circle HOF
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:20 am
Posts: 82614
Location: Pasadena, CA
Tim wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Paniagua. High ceiling arm, two plus pitches and more advanced than the other high ceiling arms besides Vizcaino.

Someone didn't read the instructions!

The reason I'm looking for three votes from everyone here is to catch things like if there's a group of people who think Paniagua (just to pick an example) should be #5, but nobody else sees him in the top 10. That could win him the vote at #5 even though most don't see him that high. What I'd like to do is have the picks weighted, but I don't see a way to do that. So we'll have to make this work for now.


Sorry, I edited my post.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:01 pm 
Offline
Hall of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:02 am
Posts: 35888
Location: Naperville, IL
I went:

5) Vogelbach
6) Paniagua
7) Fujikawa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:02 pm 
Offline
5-Time All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:17 pm
Posts: 7974
5. Paniagua
6. Vogelbach
7. Maples

_________________
Screw Pitchers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:02 pm 
Offline
Starter

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:19 pm
Posts: 656
Location: Ukrainian Village
5) Vogelbach
6) Paniagua
7) Villanueva


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:11 pm 
Offline
is ELL
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:08 am
Posts: 44450
Location: Chicago Loop
Fujikawa
Vogelbach
Jackson

_________________
Exile on Waveland wrote:
IU smells like poop.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:13 pm 
Offline
5-Time All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:58 pm
Posts: 8435
Location: behind the boathouse
i don't know how you're supposed to try to compare a 32-year-old finished product to other players who all still have further development left to do

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:13 pm 
Offline
Hall of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:23 am
Posts: 44750
Location: Greater Chicagoland
Vogelbach
Johnson
Jackson

I know Fujikawa will be listed by other services, but I really don't see the point in adding him ourselves. He's over 30 and will always be an MLB player, does it really matter where he stands relative to a bunch of guys with 1-5 years of minor league ball still to go?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:14 pm 
Offline
Hall of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:02 am
Posts: 35888
Location: Naperville, IL
sneakypower wrote:
i don't know how you're supposed to try to compare a 32-year-old finished product to other players who all still have further development left to do

Expected value?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:18 pm 
Offline
Hall of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:33 pm
Posts: 32105
Location: Chicago
I'm with Kyle, TT, and sneaky. Leaving Fuji off out of principle.


5. Vogelbach
6. Paniagua
7. Jackson

_________________
Image


Last edited by David on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:18 pm 
Offline
Hall of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:02 am
Posts: 35888
Location: Naperville, IL
Hypothetical:

We draft Appel this June. He spends a couple years in the minors and looks ready to dominate in the majors in 2015, but gets an arm injury in ST. He's out that year and rehabs in the minors most of 2016 to regain strength - but looks fantastic. He comes up and gets a cup of coffee at the end of that year, but would still qualify for prospect lists.

To begin 2017, he'd be around 27 and wouldn't have any more developing left to do or anything to prove in the minors. Would he belong on a prospect list? Because he'd fail every criteria TT and sneaky just listed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:21 pm 
Offline
Hall of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:42 am
Posts: 27566
Location: Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man
How about this as a disqualifying criteria: He's spent multiple years pitching primarily in a professional league that is competitive rather than developmental.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:23 pm 
Offline
Hall of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:33 pm
Posts: 32105
Location: Chicago
KyleJRM wrote:
How about this as a disqualifying criteria: He's spent multiple years pitching primarily in a professional league that is competitive rather than developmental.


I was going to come up with something like this... and add that he's over 25.

I was OK with Darvish being technically a prospect last offseason, but this is a bit crazy.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:24 pm 
Offline
5-Time All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:58 pm
Posts: 8435
Location: behind the boathouse
KyleJRM wrote:
How about this as a disqualifying criteria: He's spent multiple years pitching primarily in a professional league that is competitive rather than developmental.

that, and i don't think there's been a moment of consideration given to him ever stepping foot in the minors, unless to eventually rehab an injury or something

truthfully, Castro and Rizzo are more prospects than this guy, with much further development still needed for both

_________________
Image


Last edited by sneakypower on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:25 pm 
Offline
Inner-Circle HOF
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:20 am
Posts: 82614
Location: Pasadena, CA
David wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:
How about this as a disqualifying criteria: He's spent multiple years pitching primarily in a professional league that is competitive rather than developmental.


I was going to come up with something like this... and add that he's over 25.

I was OK with Darvish being technically a prospect last offseason, but this is a bit crazy.

25 shouldn't be a good cut off.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:30 pm 
Offline
Hall of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:38 pm
Posts: 42615
sneakypower wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:
How about this as a disqualifying criteria: He's spent multiple years pitching primarily in a professional league that is competitive rather than developmental.

that, and i don't think there's been a moment of consideration given to him ever stepping foot in the minors, unless to eventually rehab an injury or something

truthfully, Castro and Rizzo are more prospects than this guy, with much further development still needed for both


I'm with these guys. I don't really see how you compare this guy with the rest, nor do I see what the purpose would be. He's an old major league reliever. He's not a prospect in any way shape or form. It may not be the letter of the law for prospects but at sure as heck is the spirit.

_________________
Le’Veon Bell to cops: “I didn’t know you could get a DUI for being high. I smoked two hours ago. I’m not high anymore." Oh.

Spoiler: show
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vote for #5 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:34 pm 
Offline
Hall of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:33 pm
Posts: 32105
Location: Chicago
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
David wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:
How about this as a disqualifying criteria: He's spent multiple years pitching primarily in a professional league that is competitive rather than developmental.


I was going to come up with something like this... and add that he's over 25.

I was OK with Darvish being technically a prospect last offseason, but this is a bit crazy.

25 shouldn't be a good cut off.


Only for foreign players who have played in a league as advanced as Japan's NPB. I'm ok with it being a bit higher, I guess.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 
google adsense
Post details
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group