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Vote for #5 Prospect

Vote for #5 Prospect

Poll ended at Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:36 am

Arismendy Alcantara
0
No votes
Gioskar Amaya
1
1%
Jeimer Candelario
3
2%
Kyuji Fujikawa
4
3%
Brett Jackson
25
18%
Pierce Johnson
6
4%
Junior Lake
2
1%
Dillon Maples
10
7%
Juan Paniagua
28
20%
Matt Szczur
1
1%
Ronald Torreyes
0
No votes
Duane Underwood
1
1%
Christian Villanueva
11
8%
Josh Vitters
1
1%
Dan Vogelbach
48
34%
 
Total votes: 141

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Tim
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Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby Tim » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:36 am

This is where it starts to get interesting!

Please vote for the Cubs #5 prospect (serious votes only, please!). Please post your rationale below.

If someone convinces you that someone else should be higher, please feel free to change your vote anytime between now and Thursday.

As of this round, I'm going to start allowing multiple votes. So for this vote, you should select the players you feel should be #5, #6 and #7. If we end up with multiple players having similar vote totals at the end of the voting period, there will be a run-off with just those players.

Results so far:

#1: Javier Baez
#2: Jorge Soler
#3: Albert Almora
#4: Arodys Vizcaino

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby sneakypower » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:44 am

5) Christian Villanueva
6) Brett Jackson
7) Dan Vogelbach
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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:53 am

5) Vogelbach
6) Panigua
7) Maples

Edit: Shoot, I forgot about Maples.

I'm refusing to vote for Fujikawa on principle.
Last edited by Hairyducked Idiot on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:53 am

Paniagua. High ceiling arm, two plus pitches and more advanced than the other high ceiling arms besides Vizcaino.

ETA:

5. Paniagua
6. Vogelbach
7. Fujikawa

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby pitchcs » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:55 am

5) Vogelbach
6) Fujikawa
7) Candelario
Last edited by pitchcs on Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:55 am

5) Vogelbach
6) Fujikawa
7) Maples
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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby toonsterwu » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:56 am

I'm leaning Paniagua as well, but not with a load of enthusiasm about it. There's a notable gap after 4. For all the expectations that he's more polished than Underwood and others, well, that's still unknown. That said, the reports of his easy power and potential advanced secondary pitch gets the upside nod as of now, and I'll assume that he is a bit more developed than the raw arms.

Brett Jackson would be a close 6th, with Vogelbach a close 7th. I love Vogelbach's bat, but it's awful tough for me to put a 1st/DH corner slugger who hasn't hit full season ball yet at 5 this year. It's much easier to gamble on an arm with velocity like Paniagua, if you assume he is a bit more polished, than a bat, as it assumes that Vogelbach has a truly elite minor league bat. It's possible he does, but this far away, it's just too risky for me.
Last edited by toonsterwu on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby Vanilla Ice » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:56 am

5) Vogelbach
6) Jackson
7) Johnson
Last edited by Vanilla Ice on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby Tim » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:57 am

CaliforniaRaisin wrote:Paniagua. High ceiling arm, two plus pitches and more advanced than the other high ceiling arms besides Vizcaino.

Someone didn't read the instructions!

The reason I'm looking for three votes from everyone here is to catch things like if there's a group of people who think Paniagua (just to pick an example) should be #5, but nobody else sees him in the top 10. That could win him the vote at #5 even though most don't see him that high. What I'd like to do is have the picks weighted, but I don't see a way to do that. So we'll have to make this work for now.

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:58 am

Tim wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:Paniagua. High ceiling arm, two plus pitches and more advanced than the other high ceiling arms besides Vizcaino.

Someone didn't read the instructions!

The reason I'm looking for three votes from everyone here is to catch things like if there's a group of people who think Paniagua (just to pick an example) should be #5, but nobody else sees him in the top 10. That could win him the vote at #5 even though most don't see him that high. What I'd like to do is have the picks weighted, but I don't see a way to do that. So we'll have to make this work for now.


Sorry, I edited my post.

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby Tim » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:01 pm

I went:

5) Vogelbach
6) Paniagua
7) Fujikawa

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:02 pm

5. Paniagua
6. Vogelbach
7. Maples
Screw Pitchers

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby bd811 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:02 pm

5) Vogelbach
6) Paniagua
7) Villanueva

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby SouthSideRyan » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:11 pm

Fujikawa
Vogelbach
Jackson
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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby sneakypower » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:13 pm

i don't know how you're supposed to try to compare a 32-year-old finished product to other players who all still have further development left to do
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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:13 pm

Vogelbach
Johnson
Jackson

I know Fujikawa will be listed by other services, but I really don't see the point in adding him ourselves. He's over 30 and will always be an MLB player, does it really matter where he stands relative to a bunch of guys with 1-5 years of minor league ball still to go?

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby Tim » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:14 pm

sneakypower wrote:i don't know how you're supposed to try to compare a 32-year-old finished product to other players who all still have further development left to do

Expected value?

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby David » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:18 pm

I'm with Kyle, TT, and sneaky. Leaving Fuji off out of principle.


5. Vogelbach
6. Paniagua
7. Jackson
Last edited by David on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby Tim » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:18 pm

Hypothetical:

We draft Appel this June. He spends a couple years in the minors and looks ready to dominate in the majors in 2015, but gets an arm injury in ST. He's out that year and rehabs in the minors most of 2016 to regain strength - but looks fantastic. He comes up and gets a cup of coffee at the end of that year, but would still qualify for prospect lists.

To begin 2017, he'd be around 27 and wouldn't have any more developing left to do or anything to prove in the minors. Would he belong on a prospect list? Because he'd fail every criteria TT and sneaky just listed.

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:21 pm

How about this as a disqualifying criteria: He's spent multiple years pitching primarily in a professional league that is competitive rather than developmental.

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby David » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:23 pm

KyleJRM wrote:How about this as a disqualifying criteria: He's spent multiple years pitching primarily in a professional league that is competitive rather than developmental.


I was going to come up with something like this... and add that he's over 25.

I was OK with Darvish being technically a prospect last offseason, but this is a bit crazy.
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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby sneakypower » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:24 pm

KyleJRM wrote:How about this as a disqualifying criteria: He's spent multiple years pitching primarily in a professional league that is competitive rather than developmental.

that, and i don't think there's been a moment of consideration given to him ever stepping foot in the minors, unless to eventually rehab an injury or something

truthfully, Castro and Rizzo are more prospects than this guy, with much further development still needed for both
Last edited by sneakypower on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:25 pm

David wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:How about this as a disqualifying criteria: He's spent multiple years pitching primarily in a professional league that is competitive rather than developmental.


I was going to come up with something like this... and add that he's over 25.

I was OK with Darvish being technically a prospect last offseason, but this is a bit crazy.

25 shouldn't be a good cut off.

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:30 pm

sneakypower wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:How about this as a disqualifying criteria: He's spent multiple years pitching primarily in a professional league that is competitive rather than developmental.

that, and i don't think there's been a moment of consideration given to him ever stepping foot in the minors, unless to eventually rehab an injury or something

truthfully, Castro and Rizzo are more prospects than this guy, with much further development still needed for both


I'm with these guys. I don't really see how you compare this guy with the rest, nor do I see what the purpose would be. He's an old major league reliever. He's not a prospect in any way shape or form. It may not be the letter of the law for prospects but at sure as heck is the spirit.

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Re: Vote for #5 Prospect

Postby David » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:34 pm

CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
David wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:How about this as a disqualifying criteria: He's spent multiple years pitching primarily in a professional league that is competitive rather than developmental.


I was going to come up with something like this... and add that he's over 25.

I was OK with Darvish being technically a prospect last offseason, but this is a bit crazy.

25 shouldn't be a good cut off.


Only for foreign players who have played in a league as advanced as Japan's NPB. I'm ok with it being a bit higher, I guess.
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