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Vote for #8 Prospect
Poll ended at Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:58 am
Arismendy Alcantara 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Gioskar Amaya 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Alberto Cabrera 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Jeimer Candelario 7%  7%  [ 9 ]
Marco Hernandez 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Pierce Johnson 13%  13%  [ 17 ]
Junior Lake 11%  11%  [ 14 ]
Barrett Loux 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Dillon Maples 18%  18%  [ 24 ]
Hector Rondon 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Matt Szczur 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
Ronald Torreyes 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Duane Underwood 7%  7%  [ 9 ]
Christian Villanueva 22%  22%  [ 29 ]
Josh Vitters 14%  14%  [ 18 ]
Logan Watkins 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Ben Wells 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 132
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 Post subject: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:58 am 
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I'm going to take Rob's suggestion and use the last vote to settle the #6 & 7 positions.

So, please vote for the Cubs #8 prospect (serious votes only, please!). Please post your rationale below.

If someone convinces you that someone else should be higher, please feel free to change your vote anytime between now and Thursday.

For this vote, you should select the players you feel should be #8, #9 and #10. If we end up with multiple players having similar vote totals at the end of the voting period, there will be a run-off with just those players.

Results so far:

#1: Javier Baez
#2: Jorge Soler
#3: Albert Almora
#4: Arodys Vizcaino
#5: Dan Vogelbach
#6: Brett Jackson
#7: Juan Paniagua


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:03 am 
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Villanueva gets my vote, seems safer than most of whats left, albeit with less upside than quite a few.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:29 am 
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I'm going

Christian Villanueva - Don't really like it here, but he seems the safest of the bunch that's left because of his defensive ability at 3rd. I'm just not sure how much power he's going to have, though. That said, he edges out

Arismendy Alcantara - There's just too much inconsistency, offensively and defensively, plus the fact that he's coming off an injury. That said, he put together an excellent season, is so damn young, and has the potential to stick at short. If he moves to 2nd, whether due to his defensive consistency or the fact that there's a guy called Starlin, he has the bat potential to profile there.

PIerce Johnson - I guess I could see an argument for him at 8 on account of the polished college arm aspect, with 3 pitches. I just want to get a better gauge on the quality of his breaking ball. It's close for me on all three.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:57 am 
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I went with Vitters, Lake & Szczur. I grade out Johnson & Villanueva in this same group, as well, but had to pick three.

I feel pretty confident that Vitters is going to hit at the major league level. Where he'll end up on defense will determine whether or not he's a valuable player.

I have to admit - I'm still enamored of Lake's tools. It's getting very late for him as a prospect to suddenly put everything together. But I bet there will be a clamoring for him after he hits at Iowa for a while. He may actually be the best bet we have for a third baseman in the system.

The progress Szczur made in his approach is the most under-talked about prospect news of 2012. On the year, he had 75 BB / 89 K in 617 PA. I have to admit the bad luck on BABIP at AA was even dragging down my perception, but I like that he rebounded a bit in the AFL. He also stole 51 bases in 137 games. If he could start showing even a little bit of power, he would be a very positive contributor at the major league level.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:13 am 
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So Maples comes in 3rd last vote and now nobody is voting for him?


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:32 am 
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8. Vitters
9. Maples
10. Lake

I agree with Tim that Vitters will hit eventually at the ML level, defensive position still is up in the air and his value could be affected by where he ultimately ends up. It's been talked about on here how he's had struggles every time when he had an initial call up then figured it out and he'd still be age appropriated if he spent this whole season in AAA. I think he could still end up being a solid average hitter in MLB.

Maples is all upside and he probably has the most upside of all the pitchers in the system (including Vizcaino and Paniagua). Hopefully he stays healthy this year and we get an idea of what he can do. He's a guy who is in the top 3 next year for us or isn't even a thought inside the top 20. He might have the most variance of any prospect inside to top 10 from being a impact player at the ML level or a total flmae out as the rest of the top 10 guys seem they will be able to make it at the ML level even as a backup/relief pitcher.

Lake has all the tools and hopefully he starts to put them together. I'm intrigued that he's playing OF in the winter leagues and think he could be a valuable RH "super sub" type guy that can play SS/3B/2B/OF when he first comes up and then eventually settles on a position and I think he will be up at some point this year. Like Maples, he seems like a boom or bust guy.

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Last edited by Cubswin11 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:51 am 
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Given my distaste for Szczur, this was the first time so far I didn't think that it was all that hard to come up with three I like way more than anyone else on the list.

8. Maples
9. Vitters
10. Lake


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:52 am 
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I went Johnson, Villanueva, Maples

I think that Johnson can move quickly through the system and I feel that the biggest reason for his lack of hype last year was the injury he had but now seems to be over.

Villanueva looks to be a good defensive 3B with at least decent power and no huge holes in his game that I am aware of.

Maples is all about upside. If he can stay healthy and rack up some innings I am optimistic about his chances of being a good #3 or #2 given the expectations and evaluations we've seen from those who cover this sort of thing


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:30 am 
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8. Maples: highest ceiling of the pitchers
9. Loux: fairly close to big league ready. Seems liken a safe bet to be at worst a cheap back end starter.
10. Underwood: just going off his scouting reports, he seems to have a very high ceiling, but not to the extent of Maples

And when does Reggie Golden get in on the poll? The lost season doesn't help, but he's only 21. I know that I'm going off the fumes of almost 3 year old scouting reports and a Ron Gant comparison, but if nothing else he hasn't disproved himself yet. If Watkins and Alcantara, each of whom are pretty safe bets to be decent, Golden should still get some consideration based on ceiling. He's younger than Soler and just a year older than Baez. I'm not putting him in the same boat as them, but if he can start putting it together this season, he could be on pace to arrive around the time they do and be a solid piece of the puzzle.

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 Post subject: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:33 am 
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Villanueva
Vitters
Lake


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:35 am 
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Pierce Johnson
Duane Underwood
Christian Villanueva

Underwood's ceiling is far too high to pick Villanueva, Alcantara, Vitters, Szczur or Cabrera ahead of him.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:49 am 
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CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Pierce Johnson
Duane Underwood
Christian Villanueva

Underwood's ceiling is far too high to pick Villanueva, Alcantara, Vitters, Szczur or Cabrera ahead of him.

I'm having a really hard time putting any of the pitchers that have barely thrown at the pro level (and didn't have knockout results in the few innings they did pitch) ahead of guys that have a floor of at least reaching the majors. I get the upside argument, but Lake's more likely to be a great MLB third baseman than Underwood a #1 or #2 pitcher at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:59 am 
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Tim wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Pierce Johnson
Duane Underwood
Christian Villanueva

Underwood's ceiling is far too high to pick Villanueva, Alcantara, Vitters, Szczur or Cabrera ahead of him.

I'm having a really hard time putting any of the pitchers that have barely thrown at the pro level (and didn't have knockout results in the few innings they did pitch) ahead of guys that have a floor of at least reaching the majors. I get the upside argument, but Lake's more likely to be a great MLB third baseman than Underwood a #1 or #2 pitcher at this point.

I completely understand, I have Maples behind a bunch of high floor upper level guys too. Underwood's ceiling, HS scouting report versus good HS competition, etc are just too much to pass on and he doesn't have Maples' injury history.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:09 am 
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CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Tim wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Pierce Johnson
Duane Underwood
Christian Villanueva

Underwood's ceiling is far too high to pick Villanueva, Alcantara, Vitters, Szczur or Cabrera ahead of him.

I'm having a really hard time putting any of the pitchers that have barely thrown at the pro level (and didn't have knockout results in the few innings they did pitch) ahead of guys that have a floor of at least reaching the majors. I get the upside argument, but Lake's more likely to be a great MLB third baseman than Underwood a #1 or #2 pitcher at this point.

I completely understand, I have Maples behind a bunch of high floor upper level guys too. Underwood's ceiling, HS scouting report versus good HS competition, etc are just too much to pass on and he doesn't have Maples' injury history.

I'm hoping that by this time next year, Underwood, Maples, Paniagua, Johnson and others will be forcing their way up the charts. At the moment, though, I could see an easy case for an all-hitting top 10.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:14 am 
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Tim wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Tim wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Pierce Johnson
Duane Underwood
Christian Villanueva

Underwood's ceiling is far too high to pick Villanueva, Alcantara, Vitters, Szczur or Cabrera ahead of him.

I'm having a really hard time putting any of the pitchers that have barely thrown at the pro level (and didn't have knockout results in the few innings they did pitch) ahead of guys that have a floor of at least reaching the majors. I get the upside argument, but Lake's more likely to be a great MLB third baseman than Underwood a #1 or #2 pitcher at this point.

I completely understand, I have Maples behind a bunch of high floor upper level guys too. Underwood's ceiling, HS scouting report versus good HS competition, etc are just too much to pass on and he doesn't have Maples' injury history.

I'm hoping that by this time next year, Underwood, Maples, Paniagua, Johnson and others will be forcing their way up the charts. At the moment, though, I could see an easy case for an all-hitting top 10.


Maybe if the hitters didn't all have such huge flaws.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:23 am 
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jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Tim wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Pierce Johnson
Duane Underwood
Christian Villanueva

Underwood's ceiling is far too high to pick Villanueva, Alcantara, Vitters, Szczur or Cabrera ahead of him.

I'm having a really hard time putting any of the pitchers that have barely thrown at the pro level (and didn't have knockout results in the few innings they did pitch) ahead of guys that have a floor of at least reaching the majors. I get the upside argument, but Lake's more likely to be a great MLB third baseman than Underwood a #1 or #2 pitcher at this point.

I completely understand, I have Maples behind a bunch of high floor upper level guys too. Underwood's ceiling, HS scouting report versus good HS competition, etc are just too much to pass on and he doesn't have Maples' injury history.

I'm hoping that by this time next year, Underwood, Maples, Paniagua, Johnson and others will be forcing their way up the charts. At the moment, though, I could see an easy case for an all-hitting top 10.


Maybe if the hitters didn't all have such huge flaws.

I don't quite believe in TANSTAAPP, but when they're all in short-A or earlier AND the most any has pitched is around 20 IP AND none of them had great results...it's pretty close to true.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:26 am 
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Tim wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:

I'm hoping that by this time next year, Underwood, Maples, Paniagua, Johnson and others will be forcing their way up the charts. At the moment, though, I could see an easy case for an all-hitting top 10.


Maybe if the hitters didn't all have such huge flaws.

I don't quite believe in TANSTAAPP, but when they're all in short-A or earlier AND the most any has pitched is around 20 IP AND none of them had great results...it's pretty close to true.


Vizcaino?

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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:27 am 
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jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:

I'm hoping that by this time next year, Underwood, Maples, Paniagua, Johnson and others will be forcing their way up the charts. At the moment, though, I could see an easy case for an all-hitting top 10.


Maybe if the hitters didn't all have such huge flaws.

I don't quite believe in TANSTAAPP, but when they're all in short-A or earlier AND the most any has pitched is around 20 IP AND none of them had great results...it's pretty close to true.


Vizcaino?

Oops - sorry. One pitching prospect in the top 10. :blush:


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:56 am 
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8) Christian Villanueva (was my #4)
9) Dillon Maples
10) Ronald Torreyes

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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:02 am 
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sneakypower wrote:
8) Christian Villanueva (was my #4)
9) Dillon Maples
10) Ronald Torreyes

Woah, Villanueva 4? What was your reasonsing for that? Just low on the pitching? Do you like that it appears Villanueva can at least be an average ML 3B and is one of the safer bets in the system to stick in MLB (ie high floor), despite not likely being a impact player? Or do you have a higher outlook on him than that?

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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:04 am 
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Cubswin11 wrote:
sneakypower wrote:
8) Christian Villanueva (was my #4)
9) Dillon Maples
10) Ronald Torreyes

Woah, Villanueva 4? What was your reasonsing for that? Just low on the pitching? Do you like that it appears Villanueva can at least be an average ML 3B and is one of the safer bets in the system to stick in MLB (ie high floor), despite not likely being a impact player? Or do you have a higher outlook on him than that?


I'm thinking yes on all of those.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:34 am 
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8) Villanueva
9) Maples
10) Underwood


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:41 am 
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my mistake, i meant to say he was #5

all of those, but all the skills that made him a top-100 prospect are still there

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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:19 am 
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I have to admit that I was very high on Maples back when we drafted him(although, it could have just been excitement of us spending). That said, he's older, has iffy at best mechanics, and may or may not even begin the season in Kane County, it'll be a while before he's under consideration for me. Likely in the 15-20 range, but he'll get enough votes to hit our top 10 on here most likely.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote for #8 Prospect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:21 am 
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davell wrote:
I have to admit that I was very high on Maples back when we drafted him(although, it could have just been excitement of us spending). That said, he's older, has iffy at best mechanics, and may or may not even begin the season in Kane County, it'll be a while before he's under consideration for me. Likely in the 15-20 range, but he'll get enough votes to hit our top 10 on here most likely.

And he's already gotten hurt. He's behind a lot of guys for me.

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