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Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
Poll ended at Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:39 pm
Pierce Johnson 45%  45%  [ 23 ]
Josh Vitters 55%  55%  [ 28 ]
Total votes : 51
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 Post subject: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:39 pm 
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This is a tie-breaking run-off vote between Pierce Johnson and Josh Vitters for the Cubs #10 prospect (serious votes only, please!). Please post your rationale below. The loser of the run-off vote will be the #11 prospect.

If someone convinces you that the other player should be higher, please feel free to change your vote anytime between now and Monday.

Results so far:

#1: Javier Baez
#2: Jorge Soler
#3: Albert Almora
#4: Arodys Vizcaino
#5: Dan Vogelbach
#6: Brett Jackson
#7: Juan Paniagua
#8: Christian Villanueva
#9: Dillon Maples


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Vitters:

I don't know but PJ is still quite a ways away. There is still a lot for him to prove. Vitters has shown a propensity for adjusting to each level. I say if he can, (Y/N,70/30?) he would be much higher than this.

Bill


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 Post subject: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:52 pm 
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Johnson is really intriguing, and I think could easily move quickly in the rankings just by pitching some innings. But at this point with as few pro innings he has still seems like a wild card.

Vitters on the other hand is close to major league ready while still being young. His value may revolve largely around his ability to stick at 3B, but he has quite a bit of hitting ability, even if the approach isn't there and may never be.

I'm going Vitters, but Johnson isn't far behind because I think he could easily be top 5 after next season. Just want to see more innings first.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:00 pm 
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I really don't believe that Vitters will improve his approach enough to hit in MLB. Voted Johnson because I think his floor is higher.

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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Vitters for reasons previously stated
PJ's floor is career ending arm injury


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:06 pm 
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I think he will figure out the hitting. Not sure about the D.

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Vitters. It's easy to forget that he's only 23, and did very well in AAA. Still, I'm willing to let him feast on AAA and AAAA pitching for another year and then 2014 will be piss or get off the pot time. If by then he's not at least showing signs of being a serviceable big leaguer, time to move on.

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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Castro's Spray Chart wrote:
I really don't believe that Vitters will improve his approach enough to hit in MLB. Voted Johnson because I think his floor is higher.


No pitcher's floor is higher than a player who has already reached the big leagues.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:17 pm 
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Vitters is less than 2 years older than Johnson, and Johnson has thrown 11 professional innings.

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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:22 pm 
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no prospect has a high floor

but josh vitters is probably lousy so JOHNSON

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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:29 pm 
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Treymon wrote:
no prospect has a high floor

but josh vitters is probably lousy so JOHNSON


This. Vitters is a poor defensive 3B who has never demonstrated the offensive ability to be acceptable lower down on the positional spectrum. Vitters is much closer to the bigs than Johnson, but in Josh's case that really just means that he's just closer to being lousy at the big league level.

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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:45 pm 
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Vitters. I still am a believer he can hit ML pitching and he's still young. The adjustments/struggles when being promoted have already been touched upon. His hit tool is real and he's closer to the big leagues and plays a position that is hard to fill with even average players league wide. Johnson is far off, not that much younger than Vitters.

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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:55 pm 
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Castro's Spray Chart wrote:
I really don't believe that Vitters will improve his approach enough to hit in MLB. Voted Johnson because I think his floor is higher.


An A-ball pitcher with injury problems and you are talking about floor?


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:00 pm 
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[expletive], I thought it was WSR.


Last edited by Sammy Sofa on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:01 pm 
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I didn't realize Johnson had significant injury questions. I was mainly referring to him being a solid bullpen piece if he doesn't stick in a rotation.

And I really, really dislike yours and others' assertions that every pitcher's floor is the DL in perpetuity. For projection purposes, that's pretty intellectually dishonest, and a total cop-out. However, if he really does have durability concerns, I'll amend my statement to "I'll be damned if Josh Vitters is ever a contributor at the major league level."

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but in reality
2006 .364
2007 .351
2008 his one big year
2009 .347
2010 90 games played
2011 .323
what do you call that?


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Pitchers get hurt, a lot, and more than position players. That can't be ignored when projecting them when they are that far away from the majors.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:09 pm 
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CSC, Johnson had a strained forearm that robbed him of most of his junior year at Missouri State. He showed he was healthy right before the draft and also professionally in the minors, but forearm strains have often been precursors to Tommy John surgery.

All that said, I voted Johnson.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:50 pm 
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Vitters.

I believe in the hit tool and think the power will continue to improve.

I'd like to see Johnson get through a complete season healthy before putting him ahead of players who have already performed well at AAA at an appropriate age.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:47 pm 
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Johnson, but I've been voting Johnson for a long time.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:37 am 
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Pierce Johnson. This is about where I have him anyways, so it's not a case, for me, of liking Johnson a lot more. That said, I'm not much of a believer in Vitters ability to be potentially better than an average offensive third baseman in the bigs, and his defense at 3rd is clearly, much as I've defended it at times, below average. Johnson is a polished college arm. If you believe in the quality of the breaking ball, that is, if you believe the breaking ball is plus, the combination of pedigree and stuff arguably should put him, even with his health concerns, far higher on this list.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:36 am 
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Vitters cracking the top-10 would make me way too sad about the state of our system, so Johnson obviously

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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:42 am 
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sneakypower wrote:
Vitters cracking the top-10 would make me way too sad about the state of our system, so Johnson obviously

Yes, it sucks to have 22 year olds that put up a .859 OPS in AAA.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:15 am 
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Tim wrote:
sneakypower wrote:
Vitters cracking the top-10 would make me way too sad about the state of our system, so Johnson obviously

Yes, it sucks to have 22 year olds that put up a .859 OPS in AAA.


At a position that half the league is scrambling to fill.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:50 am 
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Vitters. Proximity to the big leagues and my belief that he WILL end up being a decent or better major league hitter.


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 Post subject: Re: Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:04 pm 
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KyleJRM wrote:
Tim wrote:
sneakypower wrote:
Vitters cracking the top-10 would make me way too sad about the state of our system, so Johnson obviously

Yes, it sucks to have 22 year olds that put up a .859 OPS in AAA.


At a position that half the league is scrambling to fill.


Including the Cubs.

I'm still troubled by the decision to bring up Vitters but not play him.

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