Music Thread 2.0

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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby DiceMan4221 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:56 am

OleMissCub wrote:
cl smooth wrote:talk about a 85-year old man who gives zero horsefeathers.

there were always rumors that bernard purdie played drums on more than a handful of beatles songs.


Him saying McCartney was a terrible bass player is totally ridiculous. He’s an amazing musical talent.

Purdie was bloviating a bit when he made that claim. I’d hate to say a legend like him is lying, but perhaps he’s really, really misremembering things that happened 50 years ago. It’s unclear, but he may have played an overdubbed drum track on the Beatles’ first recordings they did with Tony Sheridan when they were in Germany.

When those two songs, My Bonnie and Ain’t She Sweet were re-released by Capitol records in the mid 60’s, he may have been hired to overdub Pete Best’s drum tracks. This wouldn’t surprise me. I’ve always liked the drums on My Bonnie and felt that they sounded pretty good considering the other pretty ugly recordings I’ve heard of Pete Best.

There is a difference bwteen being a great overall musical talent that can compose some great songs, and being a great bass player. The standard for instrumental chops for studio musicians, whom Quincy is comparing him to, is pretty damn high.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:58 am

Yeah, dude's just in "old man doesn't give a horsefeathers"-mode, but he's not really saying anything crazy; compared to the killer career session musicians that Jones worked with, the Beatles might as well have just been little kids plonking on some toy instruments. That doesn't mean he thinks they made bad music, or didn't know how to make a hit; he's just speaking on the resentment that a LOT of black American R&B/soul/rock musicians felt towards the British Invasion bands.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby javy knows my name » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:15 pm

Banedon wrote:Quincy Jones talking about the Beatles in an interview with Vulture.

They were no-playing horsefeathers. Paul was the worst bass player I ever heard. And Ringo? Don’t even talk about it. I remember once we were in the studio with George Martin, and Ringo had taken three hours for a four-bar thing he was trying to fix on a song. He couldn’t get it. We said, “Mate, why don’t you get some lager and lime, some shepherd’s pie, and take an hour-and-a-half and relax a little bit.” So he did, and we called Ronnie Verrell, a jazz drummer. Ronnie came in for 15 minutes and tore it up. Ringo comes back and says, “George, can you play it back for me one more time?” So George did, and Ringo says, “That didn’t sound so bad.” And I said, “Yeah, horsefeathers because it ain’t you.” Great guy, though.


https://www.avclub.com/horsefeathers


This is the best part by far

UPDATE, 3:45 p.m.: Richard Pryor’s widow, Jennifer Lee, has confirmed to TMZ that Pryor did, in fact, hook up with Marlon Brando. She says Pryor was very open about his bisexuality in his personal life, and would find Jones’ comments about his sexual exploits hilarious. “It was the ‘70s! Drugs were still good, especially quaaludes,” she says. “If you did enough cocaine, you’d horsefeathers a radiator and send it flowers in the morning.” So there you go.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:43 pm

Hell, Pryor was surprisingly open about it from time to time in his act, too. Most people just took it as a joke, but you read/listen to it after the fact it's pretty obvious that that was someone talking honestly.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby Derwood » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:14 pm

DiceMan4221 wrote:
Derwood wrote:Calling Paul a bad bass player is a terrible take

...why?


Because he was a very good bass player? Especially for the pop music of their early career.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:30 pm

Compared to the guys in the Wrecking Crew? The Funk Brothers? The amazing players in Jones' orchestras? THOSE are the kinds of musicians that Jones relied on throughout his career, so of course McCartney's playing is going to come across as pretty damn amateurish to someone like Jones.

That's not to say that the Beatles weren't able to maximize their comparatively limited musical ability to make great music.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby DiceMan4221 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:30 pm

Derwood wrote:
DiceMan4221 wrote:
Derwood wrote:Calling Paul a bad bass player is a terrible take

...why?


Because he was a very good bass player? Especially for the pop music of their early career.

He was not a very good bass player.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby OleMissCub » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Indeed. There’s lots of levels and different skill sets within “musicianship”. Those studio musicians, just studio like musicians now, are virtuosos for the most part. However, could those guys create Sgt. Pepper? No.

Nevertheless, calling Paul McCartney a terrible bass player, even in comparison to amazing studio musicians, is hyperbole.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:42 pm

I kinda think the Beatles themselves would be some of the first ones (and hell, probably did at various points) to admit they weren't much beyond being serviceable musicians. Even just compared to other British Invasion groups they seemed a step down in that regard; they just had such an impeccable ear for writing and putting it all together in the finished package. But hell, the Stones, the Kinks, the Animals, the Who...I don't think many people would disagree that from a purely musicianship angle those groups are pretty clearly above the Beatles.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby Derwood » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:10 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:I kinda think the Beatles themselves would be some of the first ones (and hell, probably did at various points) to admit they weren't much beyond being serviceable musicians. Even just compared to other British Invasion groups they seemed a step down in that regard; they just had such an impeccable ear for writing and putting it all together in the finished package. But hell, the Stones, the Kinks, the Animals, the Who...I don't think many people would disagree that from a purely musicianship angle those groups are pretty clearly above the Beatles.


I think the Beatles end up getting extra credit for the innovative ways they wrote music (which were copied by thousands of artists afterwards). That said, I think Paul was probably the best combination of skill and innovation of the four. No one is going to mistake Lennon for a good guitar player
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:18 pm

The weirdest thing about them is sometimes they seem better at playing instruments other than the ones they were known for. It seems like most of the time in their later albums I'll hear it and think, "oh, that was a good guitar riff," or, "hey, nice hook with that bass," and inevitably it turns out to have been a Beatle other than the one I would have expected to have been playing that instrument.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby OleMissCub » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:33 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:The weirdest thing about them is sometimes they seem better at playing instruments other than the ones they were known for. It seems like most of the time in their later albums I'll hear it and think, "oh, that was a good guitar riff," or, "hey, nice hook with that bass," and inevitably it turns out to have been a Beatle other than the one I would have expected to have been playing that instrument.


All of those type moments come from Paul playing other instruments. John played a really, really poor bass guitar. He played a pretty uninspiring bass on Long and Winding Road, Back in the USSR, Let It Be, and Helter Skelter. George was also a pretty pathetic bass player. He basically just played guitar licks on the bass. He played bass most notably on She Said, She Said, which is the only Beatles song with John, George, and Ringo, without Paul. On all of those tracks, John and George played a six string bass because neither of them actually play a legit bass guitar.

John was a just an average guitar player, but his high intelligence allowed him to come up some pretty cool riffs. For example he came up with the Day Tripper riff and also the great opening riffs of I Feel Fine and Revolution.

As I said, the only real notable moments where a Beatle shined on another instrument were from Paul. Most notably the amazing drum track on Dear Prudence where he completely shows off during the ending and the highly advanced solo on Taxman which he literally just came up with on the fly because George couldn't figure out a solo that worked for the song.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby cl smooth » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:04 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Compared to the guys in the the Wrecking Crew? Funk Brothers? The amazing players in Jones' orchestras? THOSE are the kinds of musicians that Jones relied on throughout his career, so of course McCartney's playing is going to come across as pretty damn amateurish to someone like Jones.

That's not to say that the Beatles weren't able to maximize their comparatively limited musical ability to make great music.


carol kaye is better than 90% of all bassists, living OR dead. and she could play guitar, too!

for those interested in great session musicians cutting albums with other great session musicians, check out the CTI label from the 70s. funk, soul, jazz...you name it. plus the label itself was a haven for hip-hop samples over a span of like 15 to 20 years. breaks and loops for days.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby Banedon » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:11 pm

javy knows my name wrote:
Banedon wrote:Quincy Jones talking about the Beatles in an interview with Vulture.

They were no-playing horsefeathers. Paul was the worst bass player I ever heard. And Ringo? Don’t even talk about it. I remember once we were in the studio with George Martin, and Ringo had taken three hours for a four-bar thing he was trying to fix on a song. He couldn’t get it. We said, “Mate, why don’t you get some lager and lime, some shepherd’s pie, and take an hour-and-a-half and relax a little bit.” So he did, and we called Ronnie Verrell, a jazz drummer. Ronnie came in for 15 minutes and tore it up. Ringo comes back and says, “George, can you play it back for me one more time?” So George did, and Ringo says, “That didn’t sound so bad.” And I said, “Yeah, horsefeathers because it ain’t you.” Great guy, though.


https://www.avclub.com/horsefeathers


This is the best part by far

UPDATE, 3:45 p.m.: Richard Pryor’s widow, Jennifer Lee, has confirmed to TMZ that Pryor did, in fact, hook up with Marlon Brando. She says Pryor was very open about his bisexuality in his personal life, and would find Jones’ comments about his sexual exploits hilarious. “It was the ‘70s! Drugs were still good, especially quaaludes,” she says. “If you did enough cocaine, you’d horsefeathers a radiator and send it flowers in the morning.” So there you go.


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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby DiceMan4221 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:31 pm

OleMissCub wrote:John was a just an average guitar player, but his high intelligence allowed him to come up some pretty cool riffs.

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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby BigbadB » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:31 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Just always have your collection on at least 2 HD's and rest easy. Ideally stick with Western Digital at least (avoid Seagate), and just make sure one of the drives is a solid state drive. I've got everything on my CPU's HD, an external drive, and then also on a Sony Walkman MP3 player.


I hadn't heard that avoiding Seagate was a thing, but I have already burned through 2 of them. I still have 2 more Seagates with my collection, so I guess I might want to start looking for a replacement soon.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby OleMissCub » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:39 pm

DiceMan4221 wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:John was a just an average guitar player, but his high intelligence allowed him to come up some pretty cool riffs.

Image


I'm not sure what's confusing about that statement (aside from me missing a word in the sentence). He was more of an artist than a musician. His high artistic intellect allowed him to be highly innovative despite being musically limited.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:40 pm

Man, Seagate's been the obvious worst for...horsefeathers, as far as I can remember. Significantly higher failure rates than other brands, so you definitely get what you pay for. WD/HGST typically doesn't cost much more, so it's always worth at least going with them over Seagate in terms of affordable hard drives.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:42 pm

OleMissCub wrote:His high artistic intellect allowed him to be highly innovative despite being musically limited.


It's just weird; "high artistic intellect" sounds like complete BS.

I look at it like this: it's more like how Ringo might not be the best drummer, but he was the perfect drummer for the Beatles. Lennon wasn't a great guitarist, but he was the perfect guitarist for those songs.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby DiceMan4221 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:22 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
DiceMan4221 wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:John was a just an average guitar player, but his high intelligence allowed him to come up some pretty cool riffs.

Image


I'm not sure what's confusing about that statement (aside from me missing a word in the sentence). He was more of an artist than a musician. His high artistic intellect allowed him to be highly innovative despite being musically limited.

It's just that I think the correlation between being able to write a tasty riff and intelligence is close to zero. About the same as the correlation of intelligence to the ability to belch ABCs coherently.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby OleMissCub » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:52 pm

DiceMan4221 wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
DiceMan4221 wrote:Image


I'm not sure what's confusing about that statement (aside from me missing a word in the sentence). He was more of an artist than a musician. His high artistic intellect allowed him to be highly innovative despite being musically limited.

It's just that I think the correlation between being able to write a tasty riff and intelligence is close to zero. About the same as the correlation of intelligence to the ability to belch ABCs coherently.


Yeah maybe so. I guess what I meant to say is that Lennon wasn't an exceptional guitar player but was exceptional at what he did do, which was playing rhythm guitar and writing melodies for the damn Beatles.

edit: just noticed that Mojo basically said the same thing I did. Missed his post.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby OleMissCub » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:56 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
It's just weird; "high artistic intellect" sounds like complete BS.


Sure, the phrasing and use of it in that context is wonky, but Lennon was certainly an artistic genius. He was among the sharpest wits of his generation and the books and songs he wrote were just brilliant work.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby DiceMan4221 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:21 pm

Let's just all agree that the Beatles were a prolific band that wrote and preformed really catchy and often extremely creative and influential songs, and leave superlatives like "genius" and "one of the greatest wits of their generation" to the people who write obits.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby OleMissCub » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:20 pm

DiceMan4221 wrote:Let's just all agree that the Beatles were a prolific band that wrote and preformed really catchy and often extremely creative and influential songs, and leave superlatives like "genius" and "one of the greatest wits of their generation" to the people who write obits.


I’ll withdraw the superlative on Lennon if you do the same with the erroneous pejorative you threw at Paul.
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Re: Music Thread 2.0

Postby DiceMan4221 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:54 am

OleMissCub wrote:
DiceMan4221 wrote:Let's just all agree that the Beatles were a prolific band that wrote and preformed really catchy and often extremely creative and influential songs, and leave superlatives like "genius" and "one of the greatest wits of their generation" to the people who write obits.


I’ll withdraw the superlative on Lennon if you do the same with the erroneous pejorative you threw at Paul.

Never. Paul is my 3rd fav Beatle.
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