Politics & Current Events

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Regular Show » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:30 pm



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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:47 am

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:50 am

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CubinNY » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:14 am

CyHawk_Cub wrote:

They'll all forget in November 2020 because racism trumps everything (no pun intended).
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Cubfanintheknow » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:00 am

CubinNY wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:

They'll all forget in November 2020 because racism trumps everything (no pun intended).


Gotta pay for the horsefeathering wall somehow.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NewUserName » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:23 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:


What is everyone's overall tax bill though? This is not a defense of Donald, but a serious question. A smaller refund does not mean higher taxes.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:38 pm

NewUserName wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:


What is everyone's overall tax bill though? This is not a defense of Donald, but a serious question. A smaller refund does not mean higher taxes.



Um, yea it kind of does. The net effect is the same
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Derwood » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:43 pm

There are fewer itemized deductions in this plan, right? That's what is making people's refunds smaller or making them owe more
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby squally1313 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:51 pm

If I had to bet, the majority of the stories that are coming out these days are focused on lower income individuals who generally take the standard deduction (which is about 70% of total taypayers). In those cases, I think the reporting is a little dishonest because the most likely culprit of smaller refunds is that your employer is just withholding less on every paycheck, and so your overall take home pay throughout the year is still the same/very marginally lower as a result of the very marginal cut in middle class taxes. Think about it, if the tax rate was cut to 5%, the average refund would go down significantly.

That being said, I'm over being super concerned that these democratic talking points are a little bit manipulative. Do whatever it takes to win.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:56 pm

squally1313 wrote:If I had to bet, the majority of the stories that are coming out these days are focused on lower income individuals who generally take the standard deduction (which is about 70% of total taypayers). In those cases, I think the reporting is a little dishonest because the most likely culprit of smaller refunds is that your employer is just withholding less on every paycheck, and so your overall take home pay throughout the year is still the same/very marginally lower as a result of the very marginal cut in middle class taxes. Think about it, if the tax rate was cut to 5%, the average refund would go down significantly.

That being said, I'm over being super concerned that these democratic talking points are a little bit manipulative. Do whatever it takes to win.

I think it has more to do with human psychology than Dem strategy. When a relatively small amount of money is taken out of your paycheck (which you never really "see") for taxes, it makes a much smaller effect of loss or payment on your brain than if you pay a lump sum at the end of the year. The outrage people feel is real, even if they might not be paying more in taxes. But yeah, being manipulative is something I'm all for, so long as it doesn't include out and out lying.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby squally1313 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:00 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
squally1313 wrote:If I had to bet, the majority of the stories that are coming out these days are focused on lower income individuals who generally take the standard deduction (which is about 70% of total taypayers). In those cases, I think the reporting is a little dishonest because the most likely culprit of smaller refunds is that your employer is just withholding less on every paycheck, and so your overall take home pay throughout the year is still the same/very marginally lower as a result of the very marginal cut in middle class taxes. Think about it, if the tax rate was cut to 5%, the average refund would go down significantly.

That being said, I'm over being super concerned that these democratic talking points are a little bit manipulative. Do whatever it takes to win.

I think it has more to do with human psychology than Dem strategy. When a relatively small amount of money is taken out of your paycheck (which you never really "see") for taxes, it makes a much smaller effect of loss or payment on your brain than if you pay a lump sum at the end of the year. The outrage people feel is real, even if they might not be paying more in taxes. But yeah, being manipulative is something I'm all for, so long as it doesn't include out and out lying.


I agree entirely, and know the contradiction of anticipating that tax refund 'bonus' while also being fully aware that I'm just giving the government an interest free loan of $2k or whatever during the year.

The changes in tax rules related to deductions, exemptions, etc seem much more likely to hit the population that is upper middle class living in high state tax areas. The people 'depending' on the tax refund are going to be overwhelmingly those who take the standard deduction, and as such they are still taking home more money throughout the year, even if the claim of 'smaller refunds' is factually true.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Bote McBoteface » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:18 pm

Straight up lying is fine with me. Taking the highroad seems useless when the people who youre trying to persuade can’t tell the difference, and the opposition is telling people you run a child sex shop out of a pizza parlor or whatever crazy crap they come up with this time. Just win, and win by a wide margin, and I wont judge how you got it done. The only red line for me now is literally cheating/rigging.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:20 pm

Today’s cool story. I paid about $2000 less in taxes in 2018, and my refund went up about 25%.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:21 pm

Bote McBoteface wrote:Straight up lying is fine with me. Taking the highroad seems useless when the people who youre trying to persuade can’t tell the difference, and the opposition is telling people you run a child sex shop out of a pizza parlor or whatever crazy crap they come up with this time. Just win, and win by a wide margin, and I wont judge how you got it done. The only red line for me now is literally cheating/rigging.

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby SouthSideRyan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:55 pm

Live by the stupids die by the stupids. If morons want to rage against Trump because they're not getting as big a refund anymore, then have it.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Bluescale » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:05 pm

Bote McBoteface wrote:Straight up lying is fine with me. Taking the highroad seems useless when the people who youre trying to persuade can’t tell the difference, and the opposition is telling people you run a child sex shop out of a pizza parlor or whatever crazy crap they come up with this time. Just win, and win by a wide margin, and I wont judge how you got it done. The only red line for me now is literally cheating/rigging.


Yeah...no.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby The_Achiever » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:06 pm

Bote McBoteface wrote:Straight up lying is fine with me. Taking the highroad seems useless when the people who youre trying to persuade can’t tell the difference, and the opposition is telling people you run a child sex shop out of a pizza parlor or whatever crazy crap they come up with this time. Just win, and win by a wide margin, and I wont judge how you got it done. The only red line for me now is literally cheating/rigging.


The dems really shouldn't have to lie. Telling the truth about republicans is enough for me (and should be enough to win).

Trump and Co. continue to up the ante as far as grifting and lying goes.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:13 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
NewUserName wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:


What is everyone's overall tax bill though? This is not a defense of Donald, but a serious question. A smaller refund does not mean higher taxes.



Um, yea it kind of does. The net effect is the same

Um the net effect could be the same, or it could not be.

I seem to recall a lot of stories coming out after the tax plan went into effect that the paycheck bump wasn't large. But with both that reporting and this, it's probably too early to know if it's effecting the same general population of workers or those stories are more anecdotal in nature.

If the bump in paychecks was not large and the refunds are smaller and that's both generally true of the entire population, then yes, the taxes probably went up.

It's going to probably be very specific though. Someone with high income, 4 kids, but still claiming the standard deduction (or was just barely itemizing) is probably going to be hit harder than a single person with lower income who took the standard deduction before.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CubinNY » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:01 pm

They eliminated many of the standard deductions and limited others that middle-class people used. I'm not sure if that means taxes went up, but people are getting less of a return or having to pay. The only people the new tax helped are wealthy. I didn't know Bob Sanders was rolling in cash.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby squally1313 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:03 pm

CubinNY wrote:They eliminated many of the standard deductions and limited others that middle-class people used. I'm not sure if that means taxes went up, but people are getting less of a return or having to pay. The only people the new tax helped are wealthy. I didn't know Bob Sanders was rolling in cash.


They also lowered the tax rates (except if you were making between 200k and 424k, in which case your rate went from 33% to 35%, don't think these are the people getting discussed here), and the phrase 'eliminated many of the standard deductions' doesn't really make any sense. They doubled the standard deduction, and about 70% of filers take that rather than itemizing. Are there some people that have circumstances that would lead to more tax due in 2018 than it would have been in 2017? Sure, but those are outliers, not the norm, and those outliers would mostly be in upper middle class or above.

Getting a smaller refund does not mean you paid more taxes. In theory you should have no refund, or if you had a ton of cash just pay your taxes when they were due. Every dollar you get back is your own money that the government was able to hold onto until you filed your return.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:10 pm

Shot:


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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:15 pm

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CubInOK » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:19 pm

For everyone talking about how taxes changed:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... ding-trump
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:40 pm

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Bluescale » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:56 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:



I was just coming here to post this story.
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