Politics & Current Events

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Banedon » Wed May 15, 2019 8:54 pm

NOLA wrote:
Banedon wrote:
NOLA wrote:There is plenty of research beyond my experience that identifies these people as a significant block.


Gonna need a source on this.

I can dig deeper after work, but off the top of my head, the South Florida Cuban population?

Or that in Florida, the GOP swept the state races but voted to let felons vote?

I'll be happy to dig into Louisiana's politics later.


Lousiana's has been red since 1996 and the margin has gotten larger every election. Even if it was full of the type of "Watch Fox News but maybe possibly would vote for Warren" voters you're talking about, it wouldn't matter. There's no 20% swing lurking there.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed May 15, 2019 8:58 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:That article was the best I could find unfortunately, but based on my intuition the idea of Fox as a ethically bankrupt and moral scourge as a common and popular viewpoint is wrong. Its probably the viewpoint of highly engaged and probably very left portion of democrats. The less engaged voter who may not even be that exposed to Warren yet and are forming an opinion... That may not land with those voters.


Fox and conservative media as a whole are not some kind of scared cow that people on the Left are worried getting an unfair shake, or someone going after too tough. I just really cannot understand how you think there's any kind of significant segment of people likely to vote D who would be put off by someone saying no to Fox and calling them out (and again, THOSE are the voters Democrats need to motivate; worrying about someone who MIGHT vote Democrat every once a while if the wind blows just right strikes me as a bonkers way to think the Democrats are going to win. How were the latest midterms a referendum on anything but Democrats actually being Democrats and appealing to the Left actually bringing people out?).

In the end, if your concern is the Democrats not appealing enough to "moderates," then we are just never going to agree. Anyone who is swayed by someone being mean to Fox wasn't going to vote Democrat in the first place.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby big ball chunky time » Wed May 15, 2019 9:00 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
big ball chunky time wrote:This is a hell of a lot of discussion about the proposed upside-slash-downside of warren saying no to fox news when the reality is that saying no helps her stand out in a crowded field of dems, which does a lot more for her candidacy than any appearance on fox news would. she gets more out of "warren says no to fox news" headlines than she ever would by hoping to woo whatever undecideds we're pretending exist.

If this is just about recognition building with headlines I think someone like Mayor Pete has been just as successful boosting his profile by saying "I'm gonna meet the GOP on their turf"


he is not a serious candidate, however
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Wed May 15, 2019 9:03 pm

Of all of the candidates in the Dem primary, is there a single one of them that is less likely to peel off Fox News viewers than "Pocahantus?"

She also wants to differentiate herself from the others with similar platforms to her, or who just have a lot of Dem early support. At the moment, that would be Bernie (far left economically) and Biden (name rec guy to steal voters from). The best way to differentiate at the moment is to make headlines for being principled and telling Fox News to horsefeathers off, not to mention being principled just for the sake of it. It makes sense on every level I can imagine to refuse Fox News. If she were the Dem nominee then maybe there is a mushy middle argument to be made, but we aren't there yet.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed May 15, 2019 9:06 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:That article was the best I could find unfortunately, but based on my intuition the idea of Fox as a ethically bankrupt and moral scourge as a common and popular viewpoint is wrong. Its probably the viewpoint of highly engaged and probably very left portion of democrats. The less engaged voter who may not even be that exposed to Warren yet and are forming an opinion... That may not land with those voters.


Fox and conservative media as a whole are not some kind of scared cow that people on the Left are worried getting an unfair shake, or someone going after too tough. I just really cannot understand how you think there's any kind of significant segment of people likely to vote D who would be put off by someone saying no to Fox and calling them out.

In the end, if your concern is the Democrats not appealing enough to "moderates," then we are just never going to agree. Anyone who is swayed by someone being mean to Fox wasn't going to vote Democrat in the first place.

No one is gonna be swayed by one event either way, but democrats are probably better off focusing on a very generic uplifting message than going toe to toe with the GOP in trying to demonize the other side, and there are plenty of Dems who feel that way (citation needed).
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed May 15, 2019 9:36 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:No one is gonna be swayed by one event either way, but democrats are probably better off focusing on a very generic uplifting message than going toe to toe with the GOP in trying to demonize the other side, and there are plenty of Dems who feel that way (citation needed).


But...that's not what happened here? They reached out to her, and she emphatically and passionately responded hell no, and truthfully explained why. To conflate that with the bald-face slander and insulting approach of the media or commentators or pundits on politicians on the Right is more than a tad disingenuous. And to further expect her to rein in her own approach to placate a really nebulous image of a type of voter I'm still not really how you came up with seems so pointlessly wishy-washy.

IMO, definitively saying no to Fox and calling them out IS exactly the kind of uplifting message that the type of people who will actually propel the Democrats to a victory are looking for. Come on, man! This is what we should be feeling good about!

Playing it safe is how we get garbage like Biden's "the administration doesn't reflect real Republicans" from last week.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Wed May 15, 2019 9:52 pm

Who is ready for a new, mystery Dem primary candidate?!?!?!?!?!

Everyone, welcome BILL DE BLASIO!!!!
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed May 15, 2019 9:53 pm

And I think the point that she and the Democrats right now are running for the Democratic nomination and not the presidency deserves to be repeated. Right now is when a prospective Democrat presidential candidate should be trying to appeal as much to Democrats as possible, and especially if they're trying to make up ground like she is.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed May 15, 2019 10:21 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:No one is gonna be swayed by one event either way, but democrats are probably better off focusing on a very generic uplifting message than going toe to toe with the GOP in trying to demonize the other side, and there are plenty of Dems who feel that way (citation needed).


But...that's not what happened here? They reached out to her, and she emphatically and passionately responded hell no, and truthfully explained why. To conflate that with the bald-face slander and insulting approach of the media or commentators or pundits on politicians on the Right is more than a tad disingenuous. And to further expect her to rein in her own approach to placate a really nebulous image of a type of voter I'm still not really how you came up with seems so pointlessly wishy-washy.

IMO, definitively saying no to Fox and calling them out IS exactly the kind of uplifting message that the type of people who will actually propel the Democrats to a victory are looking for. Come on, man! This is what we should be feeling good about!

Playing it safe is how we get garbage like Biden's "the administration doesn't reflect real Republicans" from last week.

I believe it's uplifting to you, but, announcing "Fox News is a bunch of horsefeathers bags" doesn't tell prospective voters what she'll actually do for them. Not to say she isn't doing that because I know she's probbaly the most proposal detailed candidate as well, but that may also not really do much to capture the hearts of the generic left of center voter either.

And don't conflate questioning (not even trying to be critical) of her response to an endorsement of a Biden type either (although as of now Biden is still the candidate who has the best broad appeal to get out of the vote). But let's be real about the strategy, she's 100% trying to be provocative, even if she's also being truthful. She coild have generically turned it down, but she's targeting just a portion of the Dem base with that response.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed May 15, 2019 10:24 pm

Also, she'd risk nothing by actually agreeing to a Fox News Town Hall.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Wed May 15, 2019 10:43 pm

Banedon wrote:
NOLA wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Gonna need a source on this.

I can dig deeper after work, but off the top of my head, the South Florida Cuban population?

Or that in Florida, the GOP swept the state races but voted to let felons vote?

I'll be happy to dig into Louisiana's politics later.


Lousiana's has been red since 1996 and the margin has gotten larger every election. Even if it was full of the type of "Watch Fox News but maybe possibly would vote for Warren" voters you're talking about, it wouldn't matter. There's no 20% swing lurking there.

That’s not my point, and maybe I’m not explaining myself well. I’m not suggesting that Dems should have any inkling of taking Louisiana. I was trying to make the point that voters are more nuanced than being all in for either side. I posted a long time ago in this thread that the inroad into fringe Red states is through the environment and conservation. In the Midwest and elsewhere with farmers, Trump is handing us an issue with tariffs. We can maybe win a few votes in 2020, but look to the Longview as well.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed May 15, 2019 11:19 pm

I guess there's nothing left except to be weirdly appreciative of the type of confusingly optimistic picture you guys have of the makeup of the electorate, and the direction that it's going in.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Wed May 15, 2019 11:46 pm

"Every life is precious" until the baby is born.

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Thu May 16, 2019 1:44 am

Pat Robertson said Alabama has gone too far. I'm no legal scholar, but I fear Roe v. Wade is as good as gone.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby UK » Thu May 16, 2019 2:13 am

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:Pat Robertson said Alabama has gone too far. I'm no legal scholar, but I fear Roe v. Wade is as good as gone.


The only way for women to combat this is to say no to sex, which would prompt white men to legalize rape sponsored by Roy Moore.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby TruffleShuffle » Thu May 16, 2019 2:53 am

love how lunatics like this (basically the american version of the taliban) think that pro-choice people are the real extremists.

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Thu May 16, 2019 3:02 am

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Thu May 16, 2019 3:04 am

TruffleShuffle wrote:love how lunatics like this (basically the american version of the taliban) think that pro-choice people are the real extremists.


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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Thu May 16, 2019 3:17 am

When your base belief is that men have divine dominion over women, no amount of rationalization is too much.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby TruffleShuffle » Thu May 16, 2019 3:25 am




having brandon mccarthy on the cubs would make me feel 27% better about addison russell being on the cubs.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Banedon » Thu May 16, 2019 1:09 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:Who is ready for a new, mystery Dem primary candidate?!?!?!?!?!

Everyone, welcome BILL DE BLASIO!!!!


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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby squally1313 » Thu May 16, 2019 1:45 pm

I am really not a fan of the presidential race being dragged out any longer, but it would be really nice if we could send like...20 of these self-indulgent idiots back home to focus on important Senate/House/Governor races they might actually have a chance of winning.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby OleMissCub » Thu May 16, 2019 2:01 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:Pat Robertson said Alabama has gone too far. I'm no legal scholar, but I fear Roe v. Wade is as good as gone.


Disagree. It’s safe with the current makeup of the court. Roberts wouldn’t vote to overturn it. He’s smart enough to understand the ramifications of it being overturned and isn’t such a conservative ideologue that he would let that overrule his judgement.

RGB simply must stay alive for another two years.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby javy knows my name » Thu May 16, 2019 2:06 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
Ding Dong Johnson wrote:Pat Robertson said Alabama has gone too far. I'm no legal scholar, but I fear Roe v. Wade is as good as gone.


Disagree. It’s safe with the current makeup of the court. Roberts wouldn’t vote to overturn it. He’s smart enough to understand the ramifications of it being overturned and isn’t such a conservative ideologue that he would let that overrule his judgement.

RGB simply must stay alive for another two years.


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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby OleMissCub » Thu May 16, 2019 2:08 pm

javy knows my name wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
Ding Dong Johnson wrote:Pat Robertson said Alabama has gone too far. I'm no legal scholar, but I fear Roe v. Wade is as good as gone.


Disagree. It’s safe with the current makeup of the court. Roberts wouldn’t vote to overturn it. He’s smart enough to understand the ramifications of it being overturned and isn’t such a conservative ideologue that he would let that overrule his judgement.

RGB simply must stay alive for another two years.


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