The Politics Thread

User avatar
Thurman Merman
Starter
Posts: 635
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:43 pm
x 695
x 218

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Thurman Merman » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:46 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:Meanwhile the support numbers for impeachment keep dropping, and it's increasingly unpopular in a number of battleground states.

They really better hope something flips in public sentiment before it reaches it's inevitable fizzle in the Senate. I'm kinda thinking the only thing that might do it is if Trump actually testifies like he's blustering that he wants to.

I refuse to believe that anyone who followed the impeachment proceedings didn't come away thinking that [expletive] was guilty. What the hell is wrong with people?
0 x

User avatar
The_Achiever
All-Star
Posts: 1380
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:28 am
x 558
x 312

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby The_Achiever » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:57 am

Derwood wrote:


It’s extremely on-brand for the GOP to have their ranking member of an investigation be neck-deep in the crime as well. They should be able to rico these horsefeathers.
0 x

UK
Hall of Fame
Posts: 21232
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 2:38 pm
x 215
x 650

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby UK » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:23 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:Meanwhile the support numbers for impeachment keep dropping, and it's increasingly unpopular in a number of battleground states.

They really better hope something flips in public sentiment before it reaches it's inevitable fizzle in the Senate. I'm kinda thinking the only thing that might do it is if Trump actually testifies like he's blustering that he wants to.


I don't know what you think the end game is here but he'll still be impeached and it's going to die in the Senate regardless of support numbers.

I'm just glad 30-40 years from now, I'll be able to say I supported the right side of Democracy which is what this should be about.

This is a non-election issue unfort., IMO.

This might be our generation's dividing line closest to what they saw with the civil war. I'm glad I would never stand for what the South stood for and I'm also glad I will never stand for what Trump stands for.
6 x
"It was kind of weird to look in the mirror the first time I tried my hat on." - Mark Bellhorn

User avatar
SouthSideRyan
is ELL
Posts: 50212
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 6:08 am
Location: South Loop
x 829
x 2153

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby SouthSideRyan » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:29 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Meanwhile the support numbers for impeachment keep dropping, and it's increasingly unpopular in a number of battleground states.

They really better hope something flips in public sentiment before it reaches it's inevitable fizzle in the Senate. I'm kinda thinking the only thing that might do it is if Trump actually testifies like he's blustering that he wants to.


Speaking of droopy dog...most polls aren’t even going to have the last few days of testimony and we’re looking at what a couple percentage points?
0 x
Exile on Waveland wrote: IU smells like poop.

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 84460
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 15336
x 17683

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:32 pm

UK wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Meanwhile the support numbers for impeachment keep dropping, and it's increasingly unpopular in a number of battleground states.

They really better hope something flips in public sentiment before it reaches it's inevitable fizzle in the Senate. I'm kinda thinking the only thing that might do it is if Trump actually testifies like he's blustering that he wants to.


I don't know what you think the end game is here but he'll still be impeached and it's going to die in the Senate regardless of support numbers.

I'm just glad 30-40 years from now, I'll be able to say I supported the right side of Democracy which is what this should be about.

This is a non-election issue unfort., IMO.

This might be our generation's dividing line closest to what they saw with the civil war. I'm glad I would never stand for what the South stood for and I'm also glad I will never stand for what Trump stands for.


All true, but it's beyond frustrating (and scary) that he could still pretty easily end up president for another 4 years after all of this.
0 x

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 84460
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 15336
x 17683

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:38 pm

SouthSideRyan wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Meanwhile the support numbers for impeachment keep dropping, and it's increasingly unpopular in a number of battleground states.

They really better hope something flips in public sentiment before it reaches it's inevitable fizzle in the Senate. I'm kinda thinking the only thing that might do it is if Trump actually testifies like he's blustering that he wants to.


Speaking of droopy dog...most polls aren’t even going to have the last few days of testimony and we’re looking at what a couple percentage points?


Those percentage points are pretty critical in terms of the long shot hope that the Senate trial could possibly amount to something, and analysis shows a trend that the GOP's approach is working with people who were iffy/on the fence about impeachment in the first place: claiming the Trump and Giuliani were working to root out corruption in the Ukraine, and that's why they were so open about what happened, Ukraine ultimately got the aid anyway, and that people trying to say they did something wrong are spinning what happened for partisan reasons. What's consistent, especially in the battleground states* where these polls tend to be more in-depth, is that people shifting more towards opposing/being frustrated with the impeachment process is they were expecting some kind of smoking gun, like an actual audio recording, and that the GOP releasing the redacted transcript had a similar effect to how they released the summary of the Mueller Report: too many people think that's the actual transcript of "The Call," and since that doesn't out and out amount to something singularly damning, everything else turns into white noise. It sucks, but it's whats happening.

Again, the one common statement seems to be is that hearing Trump himself testify is something that could sway them either for against the impeachment process, and if he is actually dumb enough to show up at some point that's likely the only real shot of taking him down since he'd inevitably handle himself like a rambling dolt.

*And how this plays in those states is especially critical; even allowing for the last couple of days to have an impact, most of those states were already behind the curve in terms of supporting the whole process.
0 x

big ball chunky time
Formerly imb!
Posts: 33437
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:57 am
x 3184
x 7437
Contact:

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby big ball chunky time » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:30 pm

i dont think the goal of the impeachment should ever be knocking points off trump's approval rating. it's tribal enough that virtually nothing could affect that, no matter if it was trump or cruz or one of the 49 bushes up there. the goal should be to provide ammunition for the democratic nominee to rally voters in november. dig up as much dirt as possible and hope you find one thing that tips the scales. Even if it doesn't work, it's kind of the last best chance imo.
4 x
Duke Silver wrote:You've never been right about anything. You bitch and moan at the slightest hint of things not going right ... Suck my ass, you whiny little bitch.

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 84460
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 15336
x 17683

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:50 pm

big ball chunky time wrote:i dont think the goal of the impeachment should ever be knocking points off trump's approval rating. it's tribal enough that virtually nothing could affect that, no matter if it was trump or cruz or one of the 49 bushes up there. the goal should be to provide ammunition for the democratic nominee to rally voters in november. dig up as much dirt as possible and hope you find one thing that tips the scales. Even if it doesn't work, it's kind of the last best chance imo.


It has to be, and I agree; my concern is how much it mobilizes Republican/conservative voters as well, especially in the battlefield states.

It's just infuriating how nothing seems to stick to this guy. Like, I guess it might make a difference if we could hear the actual phone call, but I don't even feel confident thinking that would do it either. And as much as think the testimony so far has been savage and juicy, it just seems like none of it makes a dent with most Republicans. Hell, I'm struggling to think of who even could testify that would do it; even when people who worked for Trump and were firmly on his side speak out against him, almost everyone on the Right immediately falls into the lockstep of, "oh, so-and-so was never that close/Trump never liked them/they're actually part of the Swamp/blah-blah-blah." It's not like Watergate, where you had people genuinely taken aback when something like the WH Counsel testified against the president (and even then things lumbered on for months until the tapes actually were made available); people on the Right today didn't give a horsefeathers about someone Cohen, and they don't seem to about Giuliani, either, which is insane. Like, MAYBE if his kids testified against him? horsefeathers, even then I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't work. I really think the only person who could do real damage along those lines is Trump himself. It's either that or we need to hear the phone calls; I think these are the only things from all of this that could actually damage him on the Right.
0 x

User avatar
SouthSideRyan
is ELL
Posts: 50212
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 6:08 am
Location: South Loop
x 829
x 2153

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby SouthSideRyan » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:12 pm

This just seems an odd take for somebody who has led the charge of everything being about driving turnout(which I've come around on) being what matters.. What better to piss off previously unmotivated Dems than to see the abdication of duty from Republican Congress when the case has been made so clear?
3 x
Exile on Waveland wrote: IU smells like poop.

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 84460
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 15336
x 17683

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:47 pm

SouthSideRyan wrote:This just seems an odd take for somebody who has led the charge of everything being about driving turnout(which I've come around on) being what matters.. What better to piss off previously unmotivated Dems than to see the abdication of duty from Republican Congress when the case has been made so clear?


Wait, are you thinking I'm arguing against the impeachment process? Or that it won't ideally motivate Democratic voters?

I'm not; I'm just bemoaning how little it seems to be doing with shaking Republican support of Trump. For whatever reason, he is their line in the sand; literally everyone else is expendable, and it is equal parts baffling and depressing. They seem willing to defend him no matter what, and I worry that the impeachment will end up motivating them just as much as it does Democrats. It sucks that they suck so much.

Like, everything that has come out so far, in a normal world, would be a slam dunk in ultimately torpedoing the sitting administration, but instead it seems to be doing the opposite and bolstering Trump's support among Republicans, and especially in too many of the battleground states. My brain can't even process it, it's so absurd.
0 x

NOLA
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 5192
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:17 am
Location: Bywater, New Orleans
x 1377
x 1082
Contact:

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:08 pm

7 x

User avatar
CyHawk_Cub
Superstar
Posts: 10099
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:24 pm
x 491
x 4411

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:00 pm

For me, the whole point of impeachment is mostly wanting Congress to you know, actually conduct legit oversight (as opposed to the [expletive] we've seen from GOPer's like Gowdy during my adult life). If you don't impeach this president, then who do you impeach? Failing to exercise power is something Dems have done too often during my life, so on a visceral level, I'm simply happy to see them flex their muscles. The possibility that it can also drive Dem engagement made this a slam dunk for me.

My stance has always been there is zero chance Trump is convicted, and there's at most a non-zero chance a single GOP senator votes to convict (hell, I still think its more likely that someone like Joe Manchin votes to acquit). This has never been about removal. It's about putting the GOP on trial for once, for all the nation to see, regardless of partisan silos. I know, I know...super trite of me, but history matters.
1 x

NOLA
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 5192
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:17 am
Location: Bywater, New Orleans
x 1377
x 1082
Contact:

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:30 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:For me, the whole point of impeachment is mostly wanting Congress to you know, actually conduct legit oversight (as opposed to the [expletive] we've seen from GOPer's like Gowdy during my adult life). If you don't impeach this president, then who do you impeach? Failing to exercise power is something Dems have done too often during my life, so on a visceral level, I'm simply happy to see them flex their muscles. The possibility that it can also drive Dem engagement made this a slam dunk for me.

My stance has always been there is zero chance Trump is convicted, and there's at most a non-zero chance a single GOP senator votes to convict (hell, I still think its more likely that someone like Joe Manchin votes to acquit). This has never been about removal. It's about putting the GOP on trial for once, for all the nation to see, regardless of partisan silos. I know, I know...super trite of me, but history matters.

Very well put, especially the bolded.
0 x

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 6472
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 6525
x 2817

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:31 pm

Guys, I think Rudy might be in trouble.

0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

User avatar
Regular Show
All-Star
Posts: 3740
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 10:16 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 2595
x 1460

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Regular Show » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:38 pm

UK wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Meanwhile the support numbers for impeachment keep dropping, and it's increasingly unpopular in a number of battleground states.

They really better hope something flips in public sentiment before it reaches it's inevitable fizzle in the Senate. I'm kinda thinking the only thing that might do it is if Trump actually testifies like he's blustering that he wants to.


I don't know what you think the end game is here but he'll still be impeached and it's going to die in the Senate regardless of support numbers.

I'm just glad 30-40 years from now, I'll be able to say I supported the right side of Democracy which is what this should be about.

This is a non-election issue unfort., IMO.

This might be our generation's dividing line closest to what they saw with the civil war. I'm glad I would never stand for what the South stood for and I'm also glad I will never stand for what Trump stands for.


Totally agree with all this. The impeachment process was never about changing minds or trying to get Republicans to defect and join the cause (it looks like Romney might be the only one).

It's more about accountability and being on the right side of history. In 20-30 years the demographics of this country will be completely different and way more diverse. What the Republicans are doing is completely turning off young people and minorities and immigrants and women...

They're digging their own political graves and Trump is just a last-ditch effort to hold on to power. It will backfire massively in time and I predict the GOP will go the way of the Whig party (for you political history nerds) in the future. I know it looks bleak right now, but I promise the Republican party is screwed long term. Maybe the Libertarian Party becomes the new GOP? Democrats will be the major political party in this country in 20-30 years.

Also, Trump isn't getting re-elected next fall. That's not happening. I don't gamble or bet, but I would be willing to wager a large sum of money that he loses. Like I don't even think it'll be close...
2 x
"It was met with, basically, he didn't want to talk about that. He didn't want me to tell him that. I just basically said, 'Well that's why we want an electronic strike zone.'" -- Ben Zobrist

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 6472
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 6525
x 2817

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:43 pm

Regular Show wrote:Also, Trump isn't getting re-elected next fall. That's not happening. I don't gamble or bet, but I would be willing to wager a large sum of money that he loses. Like I don't even think it'll be close...

Image
All this wussy fretting about swing state impeachment polls is infuriating. Trump is going to get his horsefeathers kicked in next election and anyone pretending otherwise is just a walking, talking doom boner.
1 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

User avatar
Regular Show
All-Star
Posts: 3740
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 10:16 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 2595
x 1460

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Regular Show » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:47 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Regular Show wrote:Also, Trump isn't getting re-elected next fall. That's not happening. I don't gamble or bet, but I would be willing to wager a large sum of money that he loses. Like I don't even think it'll be close...

Image
All this wussy fretting about swing state impeachment polls is infuriating. Trump is going to get his horsefeathers kicked in next election and anyone pretending otherwise is just a walking, talking doom boner.


Thanks, but did you have to use a Shia LaBeouf gif? Your gif game is pretty good so I expect more.
0 x
"It was met with, basically, he didn't want to talk about that. He didn't want me to tell him that. I just basically said, 'Well that's why we want an electronic strike zone.'" -- Ben Zobrist

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 84460
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 15336
x 17683

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:51 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:For me, the whole point of impeachment is mostly wanting Congress to you know, actually conduct legit oversight (as opposed to the [expletive] we've seen from GOPer's like Gowdy during my adult life). If you don't impeach this president, then who do you impeach? Failing to exercise power is something Dems have done too often during my life, so on a visceral level, I'm simply happy to see them flex their muscles. The possibility that it can also drive Dem engagement made this a slam dunk for me.

My stance has always been there is zero chance Trump is convicted, and there's at most a non-zero chance a single GOP senator votes to convict (hell, I still think its more likely that someone like Joe Manchin votes to acquit). This has never been about removal. It's about putting the GOP on trial for once, for all the nation to see, regardless of partisan silos. I know, I know...super trite of me, but history matters.


That's all right and well and good, but man, this horsefeathers just all bums me out. I can't figure out why Trump, of all horsefeathering people, appears to be the Last Stand for Republicans. Like, they're terrified of not supporting him and not voting for him. History is one thing, but we still have to deal with all of these apparently broken-brained people RIGHT NOW willing to willfully horsefeathers things over behind an objectively horrible human being simply because he doesn't have a (D) after his name on the ballot. Like, the ultimate end of the GOP as we know is in sight...but they can do so much horsefeathering damage in the meantime if they manage to cling to the WH next year, and it's so infuriatingly realistic that they manage to pull that off.

I wish I could be optimistic about 2020, but that this seems to be actually emboldening Republicans to support Trump regardless of everything else scares the horsefeathers out of me.
0 x

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 6472
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 6525
x 2817

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:57 pm

Regular Show wrote:
JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Regular Show wrote:Also, Trump isn't getting re-elected next fall. That's not happening. I don't gamble or bet, but I would be willing to wager a large sum of money that he loses. Like I don't even think it'll be close...

Image
All this wussy fretting about swing state impeachment polls is infuriating. Trump is going to get his horsefeathers kicked in next election and anyone pretending otherwise is just a walking, talking doom boner.


Thanks, but did you have to use a Shia LaBeouf gif? Your gif game is pretty good so I expect more.

Oh, but a Shia gif is automatically a premium gif just because it has Shia in it. And that is largely because of Rob Cantor's Shia masterwork...and I already used the applauding Shia Citizen Kane parody this year.
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

User avatar
CyHawk_Cub
Superstar
Posts: 10099
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:24 pm
x 491
x 4411

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:04 pm

Don't get me wrong, I agree. It is scary AF. Trump being the firewall for GOP'ers actually seems logical to me. As a recovering GOP'er (I was reared to love a certain kind of populist reactionary'ism), the GOP letting it ride on Trump just makes sense, and was in fact an inevitable occurrence. The seething, built-up hatred of progressiveism and equality is the reason for being for lots of folks (mostly formerly) in my life.

This is why I vehemently disagree with takes asserting some sort of "return to civility" or whatever [expletive] when Trump exits, be it 2020 or 2024. While agreeing that Trump is in many ways singular, I still think an openly authoritarian, whiny old white man, is the result that makes the most sense for the modern conservatism I've witnessed up close and personally.
1 x

User avatar
CyHawk_Cub
Superstar
Posts: 10099
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:24 pm
x 491
x 4411

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:11 pm

1 x

User avatar
Derwood
Stall Monitor
Posts: 73026
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:44 pm
Location: 375 Miles East of Wrigley
x 1505
x 3278

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Derwood » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:21 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:Trump is going to get his horsefeathers kicked in next election and anyone pretending otherwise is just a walking, talking doom boner.


Sounds exactly like what everyone said in 2016
1 x

CubinNY
Hall of Fame
Posts: 23840
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:52 pm
Location: Pike Road, Al
x 459
x 930

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CubinNY » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:27 pm

The “deep state”- real hard working, honest people in government aren’t going to put up with this horsefeathers any longer. The military is already bucking. There might be half a dozen more whistleblowers by next June.
0 x

User avatar
CyHawk_Cub
Superstar
Posts: 10099
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:24 pm
x 491
x 4411

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:38 pm

0 x

User avatar
Derwood
Stall Monitor
Posts: 73026
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:44 pm
Location: 375 Miles East of Wrigley
x 1505
x 3278

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Derwood » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:47 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:


Yep, which will go down as "oh, how ironic!!" as opposed to Schiff rolling Nunes chair to the other side of the room and putting him on trial
0 x


Return to “Social”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BaezBall13 and 12 guests