The Politics Thread

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:36 pm

NOLA wrote:Oh, FFS. He's a moderate Democrat who's pandering to his audience trying to win a nomination. He's gone from single digits in the polls to a contender mainly because he's tried to paint himself as an alternative to Biden in the moderate lane, and it's largely worked to this point. He's running for President and this is plain politics, agree or disagree with his policies.

And FFS part two, you guys with this "just as bad as a Republican" narrative need to stop. Call out Mayor Pete's policies, campaign for Bernie, whatever. On one page of this thread you'll criticize a Dem candidate for using Republican talking points in a debate, yet the next page you're doing the GOP's work in calling any moderate Democrat a phony. Just stop. FWIW, I'm still leaning Warren, but I'll happily vote for Pete in a heartbeat.

He's running as a compassionate conservative in an environment where republican mainstream has moved to the extreme far right. It's a pathetically weak position to be in.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:41 pm

NOLA wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:Pete's supporters should be embarrassed



I'd swear, if they weren't so cartoonishly ridiculous, I'd think this was a crafty, well-engineered plot by the GOP to sneak in one of their own as a Democratic presidential candidate. Like, even have Gabbard run interference so nobody pays attention until it's too late.

Oh, FFS. He's a moderate Democrat who's pandering to his audience trying to win a nomination. He's gone from single digits in the polls to a contender mainly because he's tried to paint himself as an alternative to Biden in the moderate lane, and it's largely worked to this point. He's running for President and this is plain politics, agree or disagree with his policies.

And FFS part two, you guys with this "just as bad as a Republican" narrative need to stop. Call out Mayor Pete's policies, campaign for Bernie, whatever. On one page of this thread you'll criticize a Dem candidate for using Republican talking points in a debate, yet the next page you're doing the GOP's work in calling any moderate Democrat a phony. Just stop. FWIW, I'm still leaning Warren, but I'll happily vote for Pete in a heartbeat.


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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:43 pm

I'm not sure what Pete believes in, tbh.

I'll vote for, donate to, fund raise for, knock doors for, phone bank for whoever winds up being the Dem nominee. My biggest criteria until then is basic: does the candidate support abolishment of the filibuster? If not, I cannot take their policy proposals seriously, no matter how progressive or Republican-lite they may be.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Banedon » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:14 pm

NOLA wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:Pete's supporters should be embarrassed



I'd swear, if they weren't so cartoonishly ridiculous, I'd think this was a crafty, well-engineered plot by the GOP to sneak in one of their own as a Democratic presidential candidate. Like, even have Gabbard run interference so nobody pays attention until it's too late.

Oh, FFS. He's a moderate Democrat who's pandering to his audience trying to win a nomination. He's gone from single digits in the polls to a contender mainly because he's tried to paint himself as an alternative to Biden in the moderate lane, and it's largely worked to this point. He's running for President and this is plain politics, agree or disagree with his policies.

And FFS part two, you guys with this "just as bad as a Republican" narrative need to stop. Call out Mayor Pete's policies, campaign for Bernie, whatever. On one page of this thread you'll criticize a Dem candidate for using Republican talking points in a debate, yet the next page you're doing the GOP's work in calling any moderate Democrat a phony. Just stop. FWIW, I'm still leaning Warren, but I'll happily vote for Pete in a heartbeat.


Oh, FFS. He's a moderate Democrat who's pandering to his audience trying to win a nomination.


Yes, and that's dumb and bad.

He's gone from single digits in the polls to a contender mainly because he's tried to paint himself as an alternative to Biden in the moderate lane, and it's largely worked to this point.


With moderate whites. As has been pointed out numerous times in this thread, you can't win the Dem nomination with only that demographic.

On one page of this thread you'll criticize a Dem candidate for using Republican talking points in a debate, yet the next page you're doing the GOP's work in calling any moderate Democrat a phony.


You act as though those two things are somehow inconsistent. They aren't. Dem candidates that use Republican talking points are bad. Moderate Dems are also bad.

FWIW, I'm still leaning Warren, but I'll happily vote for Pete in a heartbeat.


Well when Trump is the alternative, of course. But Pete sucks hard, and couldn't be more opposite from Warren in nearly every way.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:28 pm

I think one of the issues of modern day society and government is the complexity. For example, when Warren or Sanders gets up and says "i want a public option" and republicans scream "we cant afford it!!!", suddenly Butti looks sane and safe to risk adverse democrats, and there are a lot of them. But the real issue isn't the risk, its that there IS money for a public option, you just have to take it from 1) the rich and 2) the private defense complex. A lot is made of the waste of tax payer dollars on things like medicare and food stamps, nothing is enforced on the waste in defense spending or cooperate welfare. Its because its too complex to break down in a 30 second sound bite. Same goes for bank reforms and wall street reforms.

I don't bag on Butti for being too conservative, I do bag on him for his own arrogance in aiming directly at those fears and instead of truly representing the middle class, he's out selling his competition under the bus for his own personal gain of getting elected by playing conservative. Its a safe gamble for a democrat, it may get him the nomination but it will really be a challenge for him to win the presidency against a republican in most elections.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby sneakypower » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:40 pm

NOLA wrote:you're doing the GOP's work in calling any moderate Democrat a phony.

quite literally doing the GOP's work, is to help them relentlessly attack popular Dem policy proposals like M4A, free tuition etc.

which McKinsey Pete is doing
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby The_Achiever » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:49 pm

I think this election is going to be decided by authenticity and enthusiasm. Trump is a disaster on all fronts but he's totally authentic and himself 100% of the time; easy to see why certain people would respond to a politician like that.

Feel the Bern. The rest are just deck chairs on the Titanic anyway.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:44 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:I'm not sure what Pete believes in, tbh.

I'll vote for, donate to, fund raise for, knock doors for, phone bank for whoever winds up being the Dem nominee. My biggest criteria until then is basic: does the candidate support abolishment of the filibuster? If not, I cannot take their policy proposals seriously, no matter how progressive or Republican-lite they may be.

Totally fair, and that has been a litmus test for me too. Once again, here I am defending a Dem against persecution from purity testers.

As for the argument we need a counter balance to the hard right shift of the GOP? You bet. Let’s win the Senate and POTUS and govern however the horsefeathers we want.

But Sofa, me a Boomer? Seriously?
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:59 am

But Sofa, me a Boomer? Seriously?


I mean...

NOLA wrote:Once again, here I am defending a Dem against persecution from purity testers.


Jesus, this is some peak Boomer horsefeathers right here. Simultaneously self-pitying/self-aggrandizing, melodramatic, straw man horsefeathers all in defense of a complete zilch pud like Mayor Pete, who is proving over and over and over again that he is almost just a Democrat in name only. Get out of here with this "purity" garbage; this guy sucks, and he was a horsefeathers mayor who has zero business running the horsefeathering country. Primo Boomer state of mind, man.

It's the horsefeathering primaries! This when the Democratic candidates are SUPPOSED to be pitted against each other.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CubinNY » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:56 am

Gonny nailed it. Mayor Pete is GWB without the dry drunk religion.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:32 am

Sofa, total [expletive], but compliments on the hyperbole. I’m not defending Mayor Pete outside of the fact I’d happily vote for him in the general. If anything, I’ve been consistent in harping on that purity tests are the only thing that’s going to keep any Dem candidate from winning. I want the exact same policies supported by most of this board. At the end of he day, I’m terrified of the prospect of a second term Trump. I know it’s early, but if you guys can’t even acknowledge that this part of Democratic electorate is legitimate then we will lose the election. It’s really the only way we can lose.

Attack Pete and Biden. Totally legit. But GFY for the “just as bad as them” BS. You’re not helping.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Tim » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:46 am

NOLA wrote:Sofa, total [expletive], but compliments on the hyperbole. I’m not defending Mayor Pete outside of the fact I’d happily vote for him in the general. If anything, I’ve been consistent in harping on that purity tests are the only thing that’s going to keep any Dem candidate from winning. I want the exact same policies supported by most of this board. At the end of he day, I’m terrified of the prospect of a second term Trump. I know it’s early, but if you guys can’t even acknowledge that this part of Democratic electorate is legitimate then we will lose the election. It’s really the only way we can lose.

Attack Pete and Biden. Totally legit. But GFY for the “just as bad as them” BS. You’re not helping.

Those same stupid false equivalencies with Hillary helped Trump get elected in the first place.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:50 am

Guy gripes about hyperbole, then unironically drops the whole "purity" thing yet again seconds later. Then spirals off into the same meaningless nonsense others have spouted here that acts like being rightly critical of horsefeathers Democratic candidates during the Democratic primary is going to somehow torpedo their shot of winning the WH because of...I dunno, bad vibes, or something.

Buttigieg is a BARELY Left centrist at this point willfully spouting platitudes that are pointlessly trying to reach Republicans. He's the last 40 years of Democratic futility wrapped up in a pipsqeuak, rodentfaced package that has zero personality, and was the horsefeathers mayor of a horsefeathers town, AND PEOPLE WANT HIM TO BE PRESIDENT.

But sure, you're right, the people who realize he sucks are the actual problem, and are somehow going to get Trump re-elected because they called him out a horsefeathering year before the election and the nominee hasn't even been decided. What the horsefeathers ever.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:57 am

Tim wrote:
NOLA wrote:Sofa, total [expletive], but compliments on the hyperbole. I’m not defending Mayor Pete outside of the fact I’d happily vote for him in the general. If anything, I’ve been consistent in harping on that purity tests are the only thing that’s going to keep any Dem candidate from winning. I want the exact same policies supported by most of this board. At the end of he day, I’m terrified of the prospect of a second term Trump. I know it’s early, but if you guys can’t even acknowledge that this part of Democratic electorate is legitimate then we will lose the election. It’s really the only way we can lose.

Attack Pete and Biden. Totally legit. But GFY for the “just as bad as them” BS. You’re not helping.

Those same stupid false equivalencies with Hillary helped Trump get elected in the first place.


NOBODY HERE IS SAYING BUTTIGIEG IS A 2019 REPUBLICAN.

By almost any reasonable metric you can find his ideologies and rhetoric plant him ever so slightly Left of Center. The Overton Window has swung so far to the horsefeathering Right that a guy with an abysmal political track record who would have been right at home with the Republican party 40 years ago is now looked at as being a a legit contender to be the Democratic nominee for president.

THAT'S A BAD THING. He doesn't need to be coddled or protected; he should be called out for the sham he is.

Anyone who thinks a Center Democratic president will do less to push the Right even further to the Right than an actual Liberal president is [expletive] nuts.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:09 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:NOBODY HERE IS SAYING BUTTIGIEG IS A 2019 REPUBLICAN.

By almost any reasonable metric you can find his ideologies and rhetoric plant him ever so slightly Left of Center. The Overton Window has swung so far to the horsefeathering Right that a guy with an abysmal political track record who would have been right at home with the Republican party 40 years ago is now looked at as being a a legit contender to be the Democratic nominee for president.

THAT'S A BAD THING. He doesn't need to be coddled or protected; he should be called out for the sham he is.

Anyone who thinks a Center Democratic president will do less to push the Right even further to the Right than an actual Liberal president is [expletive] nuts.

Just out of curiousity, if you had to (happily) vote for one or the other, would you prefer Yang or Pete be President (chances of beating a Republican not a factor)?
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Regular Show » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:10 am

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Tim » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:10 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Tim wrote:
NOLA wrote:Sofa, total [expletive], but compliments on the hyperbole. I’m not defending Mayor Pete outside of the fact I’d happily vote for him in the general. If anything, I’ve been consistent in harping on that purity tests are the only thing that’s going to keep any Dem candidate from winning. I want the exact same policies supported by most of this board. At the end of he day, I’m terrified of the prospect of a second term Trump. I know it’s early, but if you guys can’t even acknowledge that this part of Democratic electorate is legitimate then we will lose the election. It’s really the only way we can lose.

Attack Pete and Biden. Totally legit. But GFY for the “just as bad as them” BS. You’re not helping.

Those same stupid false equivalencies with Hillary helped Trump get elected in the first place.


NOBODY HERE IS SAYING BUTTIGIEG IS A 2019 REPUBLICAN.

By almost any reasonable metric you can find his ideologies and rhetoric plant him ever so slightly Left of Center. The Overton Window has swung so far to the horsefeathering Right that a guy with an abysmal political track record who would have been right at home with the Republican party 40 years ago is now looked at as being a a legit contender to be the Democratic nominee for president.

THAT'S A BAD THING. He doesn't need to be coddled or protected; he should be called out for the sham he is.

Anyone who thinks a Center Democratic president will do less to push the Right even further to the Right than an actual Liberal president is [expletive] nuts.

Honest question - which policies does he back that would be right of Obama?
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:12 am

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:NOBODY HERE IS SAYING BUTTIGIEG IS A 2019 REPUBLICAN.

By almost any reasonable metric you can find his ideologies and rhetoric plant him ever so slightly Left of Center. The Overton Window has swung so far to the horsefeathering Right that a guy with an abysmal political track record who would have been right at home with the Republican party 40 years ago is now looked at as being a a legit contender to be the Democratic nominee for president.

THAT'S A BAD THING. He doesn't need to be coddled or protected; he should be called out for the sham he is.

Anyone who thinks a Center Democratic president will do less to push the Right even further to the Right than an actual Liberal president is [expletive] nuts.

Just out of curiousity, if you had to (happily) vote for one or the other, would you prefer Yang or Pete be President (chances of beating a Republican not a factor)?


Jeeeeeeeeesus.

I legitimately don't know. What a horrible choice.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:13 am

Tim wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Tim wrote:Those same stupid false equivalencies with Hillary helped Trump get elected in the first place.


NOBODY HERE IS SAYING BUTTIGIEG IS A 2019 REPUBLICAN.

By almost any reasonable metric you can find his ideologies and rhetoric plant him ever so slightly Left of Center. The Overton Window has swung so far to the horsefeathering Right that a guy with an abysmal political track record who would have been right at home with the Republican party 40 years ago is now looked at as being a a legit contender to be the Democratic nominee for president.

THAT'S A BAD THING. He doesn't need to be coddled or protected; he should be called out for the sham he is.

Anyone who thinks a Center Democratic president will do less to push the Right even further to the Right than an actual Liberal president is [expletive] nuts.

Honest question - which policies does he back that would be right of Obama?


Candidate Obama or President Obama?
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Tim » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:14 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Tim wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
NOBODY HERE IS SAYING BUTTIGIEG IS A 2019 REPUBLICAN.

By almost any reasonable metric you can find his ideologies and rhetoric plant him ever so slightly Left of Center. The Overton Window has swung so far to the horsefeathering Right that a guy with an abysmal political track record who would have been right at home with the Republican party 40 years ago is now looked at as being a a legit contender to be the Democratic nominee for president.

THAT'S A BAD THING. He doesn't need to be coddled or protected; he should be called out for the sham he is.

Anyone who thinks a Center Democratic president will do less to push the Right even further to the Right than an actual Liberal president is [expletive] nuts.

Honest question - which policies does he back that would be right of Obama?


Candidate Obama or President Obama?

President
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Regular Show » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:18 am

Tim wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Tim wrote:Those same stupid false equivalencies with Hillary helped Trump get elected in the first place.


NOBODY HERE IS SAYING BUTTIGIEG IS A 2019 REPUBLICAN.

By almost any reasonable metric you can find his ideologies and rhetoric plant him ever so slightly Left of Center. The Overton Window has swung so far to the horsefeathering Right that a guy with an abysmal political track record who would have been right at home with the Republican party 40 years ago is now looked at as being a a legit contender to be the Democratic nominee for president.

THAT'S A BAD THING. He doesn't need to be coddled or protected; he should be called out for the sham he is.

Anyone who thinks a Center Democratic president will do less to push the Right even further to the Right than an actual Liberal president is [expletive] nuts.

Honest question - which policies does he back that would be right of Obama?



I would say his views and strong support of Israel are right of Obama and Democrats in general. I don't like his views on Israel and think he'd allow Israel to continue building new settlements and treating Palestinians like horsefeathers.
Last edited by Regular Show on Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:18 am

Tim wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Tim wrote:Honest question - which policies does he back that would be right of Obama?


Candidate Obama or President Obama?

President


Health care and defense spending and international intervention. And Pete's still in the BS candidate phase where he should be blowing smoke up everyone's ass, and he doesn't even bother with that sometimes.
Last edited by Sammy Sofa on Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:19 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:NOBODY HERE IS SAYING BUTTIGIEG IS A 2019 REPUBLICAN.

You’ve literally quipped that it’s as if Pete is a Russian plant, but that was in the guise of a joke so it’s all good? Spare me.

Again, trash his policies all day, but if you’re making some “just as bad” comparison, you are not helping.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Tim » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:20 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Tim wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Candidate Obama or President Obama?

President


Health care and defense spending. And Pete's still in the BS candidate phase where he should be blowing smoke up everyone's ass, and he doesn't even bother with that sometimes.

Isn't Pete backing universal health care, though where people can keep their provider if they choose? How is that right of Obama?
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:23 am

NOLA wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:NOBODY HERE IS SAYING BUTTIGIEG IS A 2019 REPUBLICAN.

You’ve literally quipped that it’s as if Pete is a Russian plant, but that was in the guise of a joke so it’s all good? Spare me.

Again, trash his policies all day, but if you’re making some “just as bad” comparison, you are not helping.


Yes, it was an obvious joke because he's obviously a Nixon-era Republican [expletive], so go eat a pine cone.

It's not hurting or helping anything, you ridiculous muppet. This election isn't going to be decided by people thinking positive thoughts, or whatever the horsefeathers you're terrified my mean posts will somehow do.
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