Politics & Current Events

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:56 pm

I'm just going to point out that Biden was written off for dead by just about all of us at at 1 point or another, either after Iowa or New Hampshire. Bernie is currently just as big a long shot to win the nomination as Biden was, and similarlt, he ain't dead yet. However, if Warren "completely inexplicably" stays in the race, he has no shot at all.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:01 pm

Sank888 wrote:He had a moment where he took the lead and all forms of media recognized that Bernie was the frontrunner. 538 had him odds on favorite. All of the candidates recognized he was frontrunner (with the moment at the debate where they wouldn’t recognize the plurality winner). Sanders campaign failed to take it by the horns. That moment is when sanders needed to cut deals and have influential people come out for him. He needed to show he wasn’t a bogeyman. Instead he wouldn’t give a centimeter on Castro.


I hate to agree with this...but yeah. This is where Sanders' whole, "I'M ALWAYS THE OUTSIDER NO MATTER WHAT" was always going to hurt him badly. I don't know if he just assumed that the Democrats would eventually give in him to him like the GOP completely caved for Trump once he got a real foothold, but when you spend decades [expletive] all over and refusing to work with the party you are now trying to take over, that's going to completely kick you in the dick when you're suddenly at the stage where you need SOME kind of support system in place. Dude seems to keep even the younger members of the Democrats, who flat out say he is their inspiration, at arm's length, so then when the time comes where he needs party backing he has nothing, because he never horsefeathering tried to get it in the first place. He put himself in a position where he couldn't reach out to anyone with the Democrats without potentially alienating or enraging the more volatile segments of his base...and it's like he was either letting that drive the campaign, or he didn't want to share the spotlight.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:02 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:I'm just going to point out that Biden was written off for dead by just about all of us at at 1 point or another, either after Iowa or New Hampshire. Bernie is currently just as big a long shot to win the nomination as Biden was, and similarlt, he ain't dead yet. However, if Warren "completely inexplicably" stays in the race, he has no shot at all.


Biden was doa because he had like 17 platform competitors, now they are gone. Bernie has 1, and Warren is still in it. Warrens support is anemic and won't tip the balance if she dropped out.

Its in the tea leaves, so to speak, that Biden will win the nomination.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby sneakypower » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:02 pm

i might've spoke too hastily about Biden's lack of an enthusiastic base

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:04 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Sank888 wrote:He had a moment where he took the lead and all forms of media recognized that Bernie was the frontrunner. 538 had him odds on favorite. All of the candidates recognized he was frontrunner (with the moment at the debate where they wouldn’t recognize the plurality winner). Sanders campaign failed to take it by the horns. That moment is when sanders needed to cut deals and have influential people come out for him. He needed to show he wasn’t a bogeyman. Instead he wouldn’t give a centimeter on Castro.


I hate to agree with this...but yeah. This is where Sanders' whole, "I'M ALWAYS THE OUTSIDER NO MATTER WHAT" was always going to hurt him badly. I don't know if he just assumed that the Democrats would eventually give in him to him like the GOP completely caved for Trump once he got a real foothold, but when you spend decades [expletive] all over and refusing to work with the party you are now trying to take over, that's going to completely kick you in the dick when you're suddenly at the stage where you need SOME kind of support system in place. Dude seems to keep even the younger members of the Democrats, who flat out say he is their inspiration, at arm's length, so then when the time comes where he needs party backing he has nothing, because he never horsefeathering tried to get it in the first place. He put himself in a position where he couldn't reach out to anyone with the Democrats without potentially alienating or enraging the more volatile segments of his base...and it's like he was either letting that drive the campaign, or he didn't want to share the spotlight.


or, he's just not a democrat, so he never could bring himself to agree with them and start cutting deals.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:05 pm

Dishing out lots of likes today!

I admire that Bernie swung big. But it was always a risk. On one hand he's been fairly successful. On the other hand there isn't going to be much in the way of prizes for second place when your goal was a political revolution. He can still be a very important voice in moving the party left, but he isn't going to be the guy who can lead a big enough coalition, that much is clear. The far left of the party may still be the single biggest faction under the tent, but it isn't big enough to do a "hostile" takeover yet, and Bernie thought it would be with the help of voters.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:07 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:I'm just going to point out that Biden was written off for dead by just about all of us at at 1 point or another, either after Iowa or New Hampshire. Bernie is currently just as big a long shot to win the nomination as Biden was, and similarlt, he ain't dead yet. However, if Warren "completely inexplicably" stays in the race, he has no shot at all.

If he wants people to get out of his way he probably has to be proactive in offering them things. His biggest problem is he's never seemed to have much of a potential roster of accomplished candidates who would naturally step aside and throw their support his way.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:07 pm

sneakypower wrote:
Tim wrote:Like it or not...Bernie just wasn't driving people out to vote.

neither was Biden until the entire rest of the party all combined Voltron-style to propel his support



Biden cleaned up the African American vote despite all the claims that Bernie would do so. And in the end, although Biden was probably my least favorite, if the black vote wants Biden I'm more then ready to get on board and give them Joe. Why suppress their voice once again
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:10 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Sank888 wrote:He had a moment where he took the lead and all forms of media recognized that Bernie was the frontrunner. 538 had him odds on favorite. All of the candidates recognized he was frontrunner (with the moment at the debate where they wouldn’t recognize the plurality winner). Sanders campaign failed to take it by the horns. That moment is when sanders needed to cut deals and have influential people come out for him. He needed to show he wasn’t a bogeyman. Instead he wouldn’t give a centimeter on Castro.


I hate to agree with this...but yeah. This is where Sanders' whole, "I'M ALWAYS THE OUTSIDER NO MATTER WHAT" was always going to hurt him badly. I don't know if he just assumed that the Democrats would eventually give in him to him like the GOP completely caved for Trump once he got a real foothold, but when you spend decades [expletive] all over and refusing to work with the party you are now trying to take over, that's going to completely kick you in the dick when you're suddenly at the stage where you need SOME kind of support system in place. Dude seems to keep even the younger members of the Democrats, who flat out say he is their inspiration, at arm's length, so then when the time comes where he needs party backing he has nothing, because he never horsefeathering tried to get it in the first place. He put himself in a position where he couldn't reach out to anyone with the Democrats without potentially alienating or enraging the more volatile segments of his base...and it's like he was either letting that drive the campaign, or he didn't want to share the spotlight.


or, he's just not a democrat, so he never could bring himself to agree with them and start cutting deals.


Right, so he never really had a chance. I still can't really picture how the horsefeathers a Sanders presidency would even work. horsefeathers, I can't even picture who the horsefeathers he would pick as a VP. The guy has tried his damndest to be an island for his entire career, and now everyone is just supposed to come to him, like if he won he'd be crowned king or some horsefeathers. It would have to be nothing but a litany of executive orders.

I voted for the guy again yesterday, and I think a big part of it was the terrifying thrill of the unknown. A Sanders presidency would be some seriously wild, antagonistic horsefeathers.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:11 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:I'm just going to point out that Biden was written off for dead by just about all of us at at 1 point or another, either after Iowa or New Hampshire. Bernie is currently just as big a long shot to win the nomination as Biden was, and similarlt, he ain't dead yet. However, if Warren "completely inexplicably" stays in the race, he has no shot at all.


Biden was doa because he had like 17 platform competitors, now they are gone. Bernie has 1, and Warren is still in it. Warrens support is anemic and won't tip the balance if she dropped out.

Its in the tea leaves, so to speak, that Biden will win the nomination.

Yea, plus, after NV, it was still like under 5% of delegates assigned. After Super Tuesday its over 30% I think. Simple math is just way less favorable. Even Warren dropped and they got 100% of her supporters, I don't think he can close the gap.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:12 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
I hate to agree with this...but yeah. This is where Sanders' whole, "I'M ALWAYS THE OUTSIDER NO MATTER WHAT" was always going to hurt him badly. I don't know if he just assumed that the Democrats would eventually give in him to him like the GOP completely caved for Trump once he got a real foothold, but when you spend decades [expletive] all over and refusing to work with the party you are now trying to take over, that's going to completely kick you in the dick when you're suddenly at the stage where you need SOME kind of support system in place. Dude seems to keep even the younger members of the Democrats, who flat out say he is their inspiration, at arm's length, so then when the time comes where he needs party backing he has nothing, because he never horsefeathering tried to get it in the first place. He put himself in a position where he couldn't reach out to anyone with the Democrats without potentially alienating or enraging the more volatile segments of his base...and it's like he was either letting that drive the campaign, or he didn't want to share the spotlight.


or, he's just not a democrat, so he never could bring himself to agree with them and start cutting deals.


Right, so he never really had a chance. I still can't really picture how the horsefeathers a Sanders presidency would even work. horsefeathers, I can't even picture who the horsefeathers he would pick as a VP. The guy has tried his damndest to be an island for his entire career, and now everyone is just supposed to come to him, like if he won he'd be crowned king or some horsefeathers. It would have to be nothing but a litany of executive orders.



Yes. I love his ideas, but the lack of professional support due to no political party support is ..... scary maybe (?) Certainly puzzling.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:14 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
or, he's just not a democrat, so he never could bring himself to agree with them and start cutting deals.


Right, so he never really had a chance. I still can't really picture how the horsefeathers a Sanders presidency would even work. horsefeathers, I can't even picture who the horsefeathers he would pick as a VP. The guy has tried his damndest to be an island for his entire career, and now everyone is just supposed to come to him, like if he won he'd be crowned king or some horsefeathers. It would have to be nothing but a litany of executive orders.



Yes. I love his ideas, but the lack of professional support due to no political party support is ..... scary maybe (?) Certainly puzzling.


Same. I really though that especially after 2018 he'd be reaching out to actual Democrats to form some kind of a coalition or base within the party...but nope, basically nothing. That he wasn't trying to get himself all but branded with a Squad tattoo is baffling and, IMO, pretty horsefeathering damning.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Chocolate Milk » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:35 pm

Disclosure: I am planning to vote for Bernie in the primary.

It's funny to see Bernie supporters call Warren a snake for not bowing out on behalf of Bernie. The hate they have for someone who is probably the most politically aligned with them, is telling. r/CTH is calling her Trotsky and asking where they left their ice picks. I'm not totally down with the whole "Bernie bros are so mean" angle, but his supporters have no interest in creating some kind of progressive coalition. These dorks are running around with the bread, graph, and rat emoji in their twitter handle wonder how Biden was able to get Pete and other to endorse them before Super Tuesday. You think Warren doesn't know that Bernie supporters generally loathe her? Or at least the most vocal supporters on social media? Why exactly would she help a group of people that openly professes to hate her?
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:41 pm

Chocolate Milk wrote:Disclosure: I am planning to vote for Bernie in the primary.

It's funny to see Bernie supporters call Warren a snake for not bowing out on behalf of Bernie. The hate they have for someone who is probably the most politically aligned with them, is telling. r/CTH is calling her Trotsky and asking where they left their ice picks. I'm not totally down with the whole "Bernie bros are so mean" angle, but his supporters have no interest in creating some kind of progressive coalition. These dorks are running around with the bread, graph, and rat emoji in their twitter handle wonder how Biden was able to get Pete and other to endorse them before Super Tuesday. You think Warren doesn't know that Bernie supporters generally loathe her? Or at least the most vocal supporters on social media? Why exactly would she help a group of people that openly professes to hate her?

In the late fall Warren could have poached a LOT of Bernie's support, but she started to drift toward the middle as she called off M4A, claimed Bernie told her a woman can't win (the accuracy of this statement aside, making the statement clearly hurt her) and THEN took the Super PAC money she had sworn off once she started taking 5th place in primaries and could only play spoiler. Also, she voted for Reagan. She'll always have that glorious depantsing of Bloomberg, but she can screw off. She clearly cared more about her political career and/or spite than her fantastic ideas.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:52 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:In the late fall Warren could have poached a LOT of Bernie's support, but she started to drift toward the middle as she called off M4A, claimed Bernie told her a woman can't win (the accuracy of this statement aside, making the statement clearly hurt her) and THEN took the Super PAC money she had sworn off once she started taking 5th place in primaries and could only play spoiler. Also, she voted for Reagan. She'll always have that glorious depantsing of Bloomberg, but she can screw off. She clearly cared more about her political career and/or spite than her fantastic ideas.

I think that's a bunch of [expletive].

Bernie obviously cares more about his cult of personality than any realistic opportunity to pass the legislation he claims to want passed.

Warren has more than proven she's not a GD republican in disguise. She's evolved. If mouth breathers don't want to accept that it's on them. Handcuffing your campaign in an already unbalanced system that heavily favors money by not accepting it is just dumb.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Chocolate Milk » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:53 pm

Oh no, she voted for Regan 40 years ago, we better scorn her and then self-immolate on super Tuesday and blame her for it.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sank888 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:59 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Chocolate Milk wrote:Disclosure: I am planning to vote for Bernie in the primary.

It's funny to see Bernie supporters call Warren a snake for not bowing out on behalf of Bernie. The hate they have for someone who is probably the most politically aligned with them, is telling. r/CTH is calling her Trotsky and asking where they left their ice picks. I'm not totally down with the whole "Bernie bros are so mean" angle, but his supporters have no interest in creating some kind of progressive coalition. These dorks are running around with the bread, graph, and rat emoji in their twitter handle wonder how Biden was able to get Pete and other to endorse them before Super Tuesday. You think Warren doesn't know that Bernie supporters generally loathe her? Or at least the most vocal supporters on social media? Why exactly would she help a group of people that openly professes to hate her?

In the late fall Warren could have poached a LOT of Bernie's support, but she started to drift toward the middle as she called off M4A, claimed Bernie told her a woman can't win (the accuracy of this statement aside, making the statement clearly hurt her) and THEN took the Super PAC money she had sworn off once she started taking 5th place in primaries and could only play spoiler. Also, she voted for Reagan. She'll always have that glorious depantsing of Bloomberg, but she can screw off. She clearly cared more about her political career and/or spite than her fantastic ideas.


Should Obama have not worked to get Ted Kennedy’s endorsement because TK was a decadent aristocrat who worked with Bush on no child left behind and killed a woman?

Seems like an easy deal to make play ball with warren and end the suffering of 330mil people and save the planet.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:01 pm

She's so good at this, IMO. And she'll need to be even more so going forward. I grimace at the thought of the world of horsefeathers headed her way as she gains more & more traction. Every misogynistic impulse is gonna get dialed up to 12.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:05 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:She's so good at this, IMO. And she'll need to be even more so going forward. I grimace at the thought of the world of horsefeathers headed her way as she gains more & more traction. Every misogynistic impulse is gonna get dialed up to 12.

THIS is the tone that Bernie should have struck a long time ago. Now he has disciples who boo him when he endorses another candidate.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby David » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:08 pm

Chocolate Milk wrote:Oh no, she voted for Regan 40 years ago, we better scorn her and then self-immolate on super Tuesday and blame her for it.


yeah and trump is definitely a closet democrat bc he said he was on 60 minutes or whatever 20 years ago
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby big ball chunky time » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:14 pm

The funny thing is Bernie isn't even out, you could even argue he's in a better position than he was in 2016. He had an objectively disappointing Super Tuesday, still won california and is like 60 delegates short of Biden. No one who wins California is out of it in March imo.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby sneakypower » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:19 pm

big ball chunky time wrote:The funny thing is Bernie isn't even out, you could even argue he's in a better position than he was in 2016. He had an objectively disappointing Super Tuesday, still won california and is like 60 delegates short of Biden. No one who wins California is out of it in March imo.

yeah the doom & gloom on Sanders' side isn't as much about the math, it's that this sets up the media continually asking Biden, that his campaign seems to have the momentum of a runaway freight train, why is he so popular?
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:21 pm

big ball chunky time wrote:The funny thing is Bernie isn't even out, you could even argue he's in a better position than he was in 2016. He had an objectively disappointing Super Tuesday, still won california and is like 60 delegates short of Biden. No one who wins California is out of it in March imo.


if he was growing in popularity and just won California, sure, but that isn't the case. There is, of course the entire issue that the Democratic party's more liberal branch is much smaller then the rank and file Democrats + moderate branches, and the latter are becoming overwhelmingly Biden supporters. Bernie can't win with just the most liberal of Democrats backing him. He's very very likely done barring something unforeseen

like Biden being diagnosed with Alzheimer's....that could happen...
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:24 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
big ball chunky time wrote:The funny thing is Bernie isn't even out, you could even argue he's in a better position than he was in 2016. He had an objectively disappointing Super Tuesday, still won california and is like 60 delegates short of Biden. No one who wins California is out of it in March imo.


if he was growing in popularity and just won California, sure, but that isn't the case. There is, of course the entire issue that the Democratic party's more liberal branch is much smaller then the rank and file Democrats + moderate branches, and the latter are becoming overwhelmingly Biden supporters. Bernie can't win with just the most liberal of Democrats backing him. He's very very likely done barring something unforeseen

like Biden being diagnosed with Alzheimer's....that could happen...


Yeah, Sanders' story at this point is basically, "holy horsefeathers, thank horsefeathers for California; welp, now to just keep on doing what I do and hoping it's different this time for some reason!"
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:26 pm

sneakypower wrote:
big ball chunky time wrote:The funny thing is Bernie isn't even out, you could even argue he's in a better position than he was in 2016. He had an objectively disappointing Super Tuesday, still won california and is like 60 delegates short of Biden. No one who wins California is out of it in March imo.

yeah the doom & gloom on Sanders' side isn't as much about the math, it's that this sets up the media continually asking Biden, that his campaign seems to have the momentum of a runaway freight train, why is he so popular?


So are you mad that there's any kind of news narrative, period, or that it's not the narrative you want, or both?
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