The Politics Thread

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:52 pm

NOLA wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:

I can’t like this enough. Also, what a stupid play by Lindsey Graham. I mean, this play by Harrison was inevitable, right? It just is an open invitation to draw attention to Graham being a lackey for Trump.

Very stupid. Gave Harrison a bunch of free earned media. In fact, so dumb, I was worried there was something to this. I mean, I fell for the "Graham is too smart & experienced to play a gambit like this without knowing something" assumption. My bad.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby gflore34 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:43 am

Recently viewed a political ad for Trump regarding COVID-19, immediately states Trump ban on China then proceeds into criticizing Biden for a lack of leadership and, of course, ends with touting Trump' leadership. I know these ads are oftentimes hypocritical but, what a pathetic joke of ad, just on its face, the travel ban on China being all Trump has in his response to COVID-19 shows an enormous void of leadership. His travel ban is the only tangible action Trump took, given his subsequent lack of action, did it really make a difference? COVID-19 was coming with or without his travel ban.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:48 am

gflore34 wrote:Recently viewed a political ad for Trump regarding COVID-19, immediately states Trump ban on China then proceeds into criticizing Biden for a lack of leadership and, of course, ends with touting Trump' leadership. I know these ads are oftentimes hypocritical but, what a pathetic joke of ad, just on its face, the travel ban on China being all Trump has in his response to COVID-19 shows an enormous void of leadership. His travel ban is the only tangible action Trump took, given his subsequent lack of action, did it really make a difference? COVID-19 was coming with or without his travel ban.

Yuupp. I remember early on in the pandemic all the conservative senators or whatnot I follow on Twitter being obsessed with "making China answer for this virus" or whatever, and just thinking, uuuh, what about battling the virus first. But as with most things conservative, nationalistic xenophobia was the only real motivator.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:00 am

The travel ban was straight up xenophobia. It only restricted travel into the US by Chinese nationals. Everyone else could travel to and from China.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby gflore34 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:10 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:The travel ban was straight up xenophobia. It only restricted travel into the US by Chinese nationals. Everyone else could travel to and from China.


No doubt, as mentioned by you and Wrigley above, it's the GOP' go to and really, for all resulting deaths and hardship, it's sad nothing else was done.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Brian » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:02 am

probably a dump question, but why does Illinois need a voting referendum to change the tax rates?

side note - these rich horsefeathers undoubtedly are paying more for these commercials than they would in the more taxes they'd be hit with.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:14 am

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:22 am

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:49 am

CyHawk_Cub wrote:


Terrible, terrible tweet.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:54 am

Brian wrote:probably a dump question, but why does Illinois need a voting referendum to change the tax rates?

side note - these rich horsefeathers undoubtedly are paying more for these commercials than they would in the more taxes they'd be hit with.

The IL constitution only allows for a single tax-payer rate. So it's a voter referendum for a constitutional amendment to allow graduated rates.

They can change rates now, and have, but a rate change affects everyone.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Derwood » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:49 am

There's this:




and then there's this:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby bukie » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:36 pm

Brian wrote:probably a dump question, but why does Illinois need a voting referendum to change the tax rates?

side note - these rich horsefeathers undoubtedly are paying more for these commercials than they would in the more taxes they'd be hit with.

A flat tax rate is written into the state constitution, so the only way to actually set up a progressive income tax in the state is to amend the constitution to allow it.

That's what the commercials refer to when they say "the democrats want to alter the constitution so congress can change the tax rate whenever it wants"
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby gflore34 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:40 pm

So, there's going to be a Biden - Trump debate on September 29? Guess they're going to be in person? If they are, Biden should be equipped with a cattle-prod to keep Trump away. Will the moderator make Trump answer policy questions? Or will it be nothing more than name calling and theatrics from Trump, no real substance, that'll suffice as an answer?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Derwood » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:02 pm

gflore34 wrote:So, there's going to be a Biden - Trump debate on September 29? Guess they're going to be in person? If they are, Biden should be equipped with a cattle-prod to keep Trump away. Will the moderator make Trump answer policy questions? Or will it be nothing more than name calling and theatrics from Trump, no real substance, that'll suffice as an answer?


I don't see how this works without the moderators having the ability to cut Trump's mic off when it's not his turn to speak
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:22 pm

bukie wrote:
Brian wrote:probably a dump question, but why does Illinois need a voting referendum to change the tax rates?

side note - these rich horsefeathers undoubtedly are paying more for these commercials than they would in the more taxes they'd be hit with.

A flat tax rate is written into the state constitution, so the only way to actually set up a progressive income tax in the state is to amend the constitution to allow it.

That's what the commercials refer to when they say "the democrats want to alter the constitution so congress can change the tax rate whenever it wants"



I take it you live in Illinois. Whats your understanding of the property tax vs income tax issues there? Have property taxes really become that crippling?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Thurman Merman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:44 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
bukie wrote:
Brian wrote:probably a dump question, but why does Illinois need a voting referendum to change the tax rates?

side note - these rich horsefeathers undoubtedly are paying more for these commercials than they would in the more taxes they'd be hit with.

A flat tax rate is written into the state constitution, so the only way to actually set up a progressive income tax in the state is to amend the constitution to allow it.

That's what the commercials refer to when they say "the democrats want to alter the constitution so congress can change the tax rate whenever it wants"


I take it you live in Illinois. Whats your understanding of the property tax vs income tax issues there? Have property taxes really become that crippling?

Let's just say that I only pay 6500 a year in property taxes and I'm super pumped how low that is. I have no idea how people can buy these places with taxes above 10k.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:58 pm

Thurman Merman wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
bukie wrote:A flat tax rate is written into the state constitution, so the only way to actually set up a progressive income tax in the state is to amend the constitution to allow it.

That's what the commercials refer to when they say "the democrats want to alter the constitution so congress can change the tax rate whenever it wants"


I take it you live in Illinois. Whats your understanding of the property tax vs income tax issues there? Have property taxes really become that crippling?

Let's just say that I only pay 6500 a year in property taxes and I'm super pumped how low that is. I have no idea how people can buy these places with taxes above 10k.


I understand if you dont want to say, but how much is your place valued at? Whats its market value?

My house is a $590k house in puget sound, I pay $3800 a year in property tax, for comparison
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Proven Veteran » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:05 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Thurman Merman wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
I take it you live in Illinois. Whats your understanding of the property tax vs income tax issues there? Have property taxes really become that crippling?

Let's just say that I only pay 6500 a year in property taxes and I'm super pumped how low that is. I have no idea how people can buy these places with taxes above 10k.


I understand if you dont want to say, but how much is your place valued at? Whats its market value?

My house is a $590k house in puget sound, I pay $3800 a year in property tax, for comparison


Illinois is one of the highest property tax states. My parents pay the same property tax amount as I do (in CA) and my house is worth twice what theirs is.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:05 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
bukie wrote:
Brian wrote:probably a dump question, but why does Illinois need a voting referendum to change the tax rates?

side note - these rich horsefeathers undoubtedly are paying more for these commercials than they would in the more taxes they'd be hit with.

A flat tax rate is written into the state constitution, so the only way to actually set up a progressive income tax in the state is to amend the constitution to allow it.

That's what the commercials refer to when they say "the democrats want to alter the constitution so congress can change the tax rate whenever it wants"



I take it you live in Illinois. Whats your understanding of the property tax vs income tax issues there? Have property taxes really become that crippling?

Property taxes are bad, but the relatively low income tax does make up a little for it. But it's also very localized. My property taxes will go up next year by probably $500 on a fairly close bond referendum vote for school upgrades. I know some conservatives want the state to limit localities from continuing to raise property taxes but local voters do keep voting for these in many cases.

The high property taxes likely do have some affect of dampening the housing market prices, which is good or bad depending on what position your in. Older voters who may be in fully paid off homes would love property tax relief (plus pension income isn't taxed so if they're not earning wages, any income tax increase won't hit them)! For younger people trying to buy or future home buyers, it doesn't make a huge difference because you're just factoring in a x monthly housing budget and the housing market may well just swap property tax for a higher mortgage the next time you buy and the higher income taxes on current earnings.

I could really go either way between high prop and lower/flat income or lower property tax and a graduated tax. This referendum doesn't address the other half though, so I'm honestly kind of split on how I'll vote, but more important the reason I don't like the referendum is below:

Any tax tinkering doesn't address the HUGE elephant in the room of the pension crisis. It's been like 7 years since the state Supreme Court struck down pension reform, basically saying a constitutional amendment was necessary and here we still are with no progress. Conservatives will rail on IL as a failed democratic state, but it's been a combined mismanagement from both parties for like 40+ years, so it does suck.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:10 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Thurman Merman wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
I take it you live in Illinois. Whats your understanding of the property tax vs income tax issues there? Have property taxes really become that crippling?

Let's just say that I only pay 6500 a year in property taxes and I'm super pumped how low that is. I have no idea how people can buy these places with taxes above 10k.


I understand if you dont want to say, but how much is your place valued at? Whats its market value?

My house is a $590k house in puget sound, I pay $3800 a year in property tax, for comparison

Yea, that's crazy low for tax in comparison. I'm about double that tax for a lower valued house (450-500 market value) . Though that may mean net, net, we have similar monthly payments. Depending on salary adjustments it might be comparable monthly housing cost while you're in that 30 year mortgage cycle.

Washington I think also doesn't have income tax, so I think you have high sales tax? IL I want to say is middle-ground for sales taxes.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby javy knows my name » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:15 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Thurman Merman wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
I take it you live in Illinois. Whats your understanding of the property tax vs income tax issues there? Have property taxes really become that crippling?

Let's just say that I only pay 6500 a year in property taxes and I'm super pumped how low that is. I have no idea how people can buy these places with taxes above 10k.


I understand if you dont want to say, but how much is your place valued at? Whats its market value?

My house is a $590k house in puget sound, I pay $3800 a year in property tax, for comparison


I pay more than that for my 2br condo in Logan
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:16 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Thurman Merman wrote:Let's just say that I only pay 6500 a year in property taxes and I'm super pumped how low that is. I have no idea how people can buy these places with taxes above 10k.


I understand if you dont want to say, but how much is your place valued at? Whats its market value?

My house is a $590k house in puget sound, I pay $3800 a year in property tax, for comparison

Yea, that's crazy low for tax in comparison. I'm about double that tax for a lower valued house (450-500 market value) . Though that may mean net, net, we have similar monthly payments. Depending on salary adjustments it might be comparable monthly housing cost while you're in that 30 year mortgage cycle.

Washington I think also doesn't have income tax, so I think you have high sales tax? IL I want to say is middle-ground for sales taxes.


right, no income tax, but 9-11% sales. liquor tax is in the 20's (I believe). I buy my scotch in Illinois when I go back for visits
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Derwood » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:24 pm

I am so spoiled by the cost of living where I live.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Proven Veteran » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:47 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
I understand if you dont want to say, but how much is your place valued at? Whats its market value?

My house is a $590k house in puget sound, I pay $3800 a year in property tax, for comparison

Yea, that's crazy low for tax in comparison. I'm about double that tax for a lower valued house (450-500 market value) . Though that may mean net, net, we have similar monthly payments. Depending on salary adjustments it might be comparable monthly housing cost while you're in that 30 year mortgage cycle.

Washington I think also doesn't have income tax, so I think you have high sales tax? IL I want to say is middle-ground for sales taxes.


right, no income tax, but 9-11% sales. liquor tax is in the 20's (I believe). I buy my scotch in Illinois when I go back for visits


We have income tax and high sales tax. We're trying to alter the proposition that has frozen some commercial property taxes at 1973 rates.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:50 pm

Derwood wrote:I am so spoiled by the cost of living where I live.



true, but I wouldn't leave the adjacency to places like Tofino, BC for central Ohio any day unless I had to. I have a good friend I worked with for years out here who moved to Colombus Ohio a couple years ago. He grew up in Puget Sound and is finding the transition to midwest life...life altering. I'm not sure how he manages it.
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