The Politics Thread

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby The_Achiever » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:58 pm

Is there anything cool the dems can do if they don’t take the senate? Obviously will be great to get rid of Trump but why would McConnell allow any new legislation, judges, etc if he doesn’t have to?

Out of control doom bonering but hard to imagine the gop not roaring back after 2 years of sleepy joe and gridlock.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:16 pm

The_Achiever wrote:Is there anything cool the dems can do if they don’t take the senate? Obviously will be great to get rid of Trump but why would McConnell allow any new legislation, judges, etc if he doesn’t have to?

Out of control doom bonering but hard to imagine the gop not roaring back after 2 years of sleepy joe and gridlock.

Yea they'd be limited for sure.

But say they only get to 49-51. 2022 is another big defense year for the GOP senate. If the country is stuck in gridlock, they need to just hammer home the message that its the GOP gridlock and then get those few seats to flip that they'd need to actually try and govern in the back half of a Biden presidency.

Hopefully that's not the scenario they'll face though. And frankly hopefully the margin in big enough that any 2022 midterm rebound doesn't wipe out their gains, but that will obviously be a risk even if they gain control.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby gflore34 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:19 pm

The_Achiever wrote:Is there anything cool the dems can do if they don’t take the senate? Obviously will be great to get rid of Trump but why would McConnell allow any new legislation, judges, etc if he doesn’t have to?

Out of control doom bonering but hard to imagine the gop not roaring back after 2 years of sleepy joe and gridlock.


Given the current state of our country I do not think gridlock is in the GOP' best interest, most especially if Biden makes it obvious they're holding up COVID aid in the name of special interests and wealth. It's true now but, maybe, not as obvious.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:20 pm

gflore34 wrote:
CoolHandLuke wrote:Aside from helping with the election, they should also try to highlight the fact that this supreme court, chosen by a president that represents a minority of the country and confirmed by senators representing a minority of the country will entrench minority rule for generations. And that if people want democracy and health care and reproductive rights and voting rights and civil rights, etc (popular things!)... they should support court packing.

By the way, if the election guess the Democrats way, horsefeathering Breyer better retire on day one.


I know repeal of the ACA is about protecting wealth, what's the angle on Roe vs. Wade? Money does not seem to be at the root, is it really to garner the support of Evangelical Christians? How does their continued support prove to be politically beneficial? They're are not enough to secure the vote every election, what's the reward?


It cannot be understated how many Republican voters are that way for life because of how much they despise the idea of legal abortion. The party is more than happy to play like they're on the verge of overturning RvW to string them along.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby gflore34 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:33 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
gflore34 wrote:
CoolHandLuke wrote:Aside from helping with the election, they should also try to highlight the fact that this supreme court, chosen by a president that represents a minority of the country and confirmed by senators representing a minority of the country will entrench minority rule for generations. And that if people want democracy and health care and reproductive rights and voting rights and civil rights, etc (popular things!)... they should support court packing.

By the way, if the election guess the Democrats way, horsefeathering Breyer better retire on day one.


I know repeal of the ACA is about protecting wealth, what's the angle on Roe vs. Wade? Money does not seem to be at the root, is it really to garner the support of Evangelical Christians? How does their continued support prove to be politically beneficial? They're are not enough to secure the vote every election, what's the reward?


It cannot be understated how many Republican voters are that way for life because of how much they despise the idea of legal abortion. The party is more than happy to play like they're on the verge of overturning RvW to string them along.


I to despise the killing babies, any decent person does, however, there are circumstances requiring a woman to be able make the decision for herself, its got to be an option. For the women who faced those circumstances and, made the choice, do they think those women are happy they did? But, as you've stated its probably the GOP stringing them along.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:33 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
SouthSideRyan wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:


Is he suggesting adding four justices or does he not see the value in 6-5 vs. 6-3 in 2021?


It's a shortsightedness I've been seeing a lot where people just assume the SC justices all vote in lockstep almost all the time a la the Senate or the House.

That 6-5 court would basically be what they've had since Kavanaugh replaced Kennedy. Even though those were both 5-4 courts, there was quite a bit of a difference in that median court decision. 6-5 with Roberts still as the middle does a lot to "stop the bleeding", but not much else. Gorsuch as the swing justice will end up pissing off conservatives now and again like he did with the workplace LGBTQ discrimination case, but on the other hand may not be quite as "institutionalist" as Roberts has been where he allows a great deal of deference to jurisprudence, and we see some precedent overturned.

I guess the real question is, is there any difference of political damage inflicted by adding 2 verse 4 (assuming they only add an even number to keep the court at a odd number). If there isn't any difference, there's really not much reason to hold back, and your bet is on trying to always hold at least 1 of the House, Senate, or WH to stop the GOP from responding with their own court increases (Dems, uncap the House and try to protect majority rule there!)

There's also a question on if you just set up a schedule to pack the court more slowly and bet on being the ones in power next time. 2 in 2022, 2 in 2026, for instance. That's basically a theory that the American people more so than anything, want a court that doesn't change rapidly and to stabilize the current court's makeup, and then giving both sides an equal chance to establish their role in the process after the next presidential election and full senate term since this one.

If they do add seats, the other question is who they nominate to the bench. If its a Garland-type, they're playing somewhat the "good actor" role and trying to make a court that majority of americans probably will agree with. If they go more Sotomayor-type, they're potentially trying to establish a court with a greater odds of polarity, and the risk that Americans revolt because they lose trust in the court. So there's probably less risk to saving the status quo (and that median popular opinion) verse something more ambitious. The final question is if they try to establish term limits (questionable constitutionally, but I guess some argue it could be done without an amendment). That would be a big deal since Trumps 3 nominees will all likely be 30+ year appointees.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Cubfanintheknow » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:34 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
gflore34 wrote:
CoolHandLuke wrote:Aside from helping with the election, they should also try to highlight the fact that this supreme court, chosen by a president that represents a minority of the country and confirmed by senators representing a minority of the country will entrench minority rule for generations. And that if people want democracy and health care and reproductive rights and voting rights and civil rights, etc (popular things!)... they should support court packing.

By the way, if the election guess the Democrats way, horsefeathering Breyer better retire on day one.


I know repeal of the ACA is about protecting wealth, what's the angle on Roe vs. Wade? Money does not seem to be at the root, is it really to garner the support of Evangelical Christians? How does their continued support prove to be politically beneficial? They're are not enough to secure the vote every election, what's the reward?


It cannot be understated how many Republican voters are that way for life because of how much they despise the idea of legal abortion. The party is more than happy to play like they're on the verge of overturning RvW to string them along.


I'm quite certain someone has said this before, but Roe v. Wade is the carrot republicans would be more than happy to dangle forever in front of their constituents. There's enough single issue conservative voters that would be at risk of being lost if it were ever overturned.

ETA: need to read a little more closely. That's exactly what you said, Sofa. #-o
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:44 pm

Cubfanintheknow wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
gflore34 wrote:
I know repeal of the ACA is about protecting wealth, what's the angle on Roe vs. Wade? Money does not seem to be at the root, is it really to garner the support of Evangelical Christians? How does their continued support prove to be politically beneficial? They're are not enough to secure the vote every election, what's the reward?


It cannot be understated how many Republican voters are that way for life because of how much they despise the idea of legal abortion. The party is more than happy to play like they're on the verge of overturning RvW to string them along.


I'm quite certain someone has said this before, but Roe v. Wade is the carrot republicans would be more than happy to dangle forever in front of their constituents. There's enough single issue conservative voters that would be at risk of being lost if it were ever overturned.

ETA: need to read a little more closely. That's exactly what you said, Sofa. #-o


Same with guns. And the vague, handwave-y talk of "less government/taxes." Those are the Holy Triumvirate for diehard conservatives.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby UMFan83 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:00 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
The_Achiever wrote:Is there anything cool the dems can do if they don’t take the senate? Obviously will be great to get rid of Trump but why would McConnell allow any new legislation, judges, etc if he doesn’t have to?

Out of control doom bonering but hard to imagine the gop not roaring back after 2 years of sleepy joe and gridlock.

Yea they'd be limited for sure.

But say they only get to 49-51. 2022 is another big defense year for the GOP senate. If the country is stuck in gridlock, they need to just hammer home the message that its the GOP gridlock and then get those few seats to flip that they'd need to actually try and govern in the back half of a Biden presidency.

Hopefully that's not the scenario they'll face though. And frankly hopefully the margin in big enough that any 2022 midterm rebound doesn't wipe out their gains, but that will obviously be a risk even if they gain control.


I don't trust the Democrats to properly broadcast that message, and I still see very little sign that the dem establishment is going to get beyond their 'play fair and act decent' mindset that is killing them because half the country already thinks they are corrupt and will do anything to change the rules and get their way. Might as well meet them all the way and actually act like that.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:05 pm

Only the Dems are required to "be above politics" and "play by the rules." It is orthodoxy that the GOP will do neither. There's very real freedom in that for them. Hell, even among liberals, in this thread even, there's constant pining for "a return to normalcy"...something that hasn't existed in my lifetime.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby SouthSideRyan » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:09 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
The_Achiever wrote:Is there anything cool the dems can do if they don’t take the senate? Obviously will be great to get rid of Trump but why would McConnell allow any new legislation, judges, etc if he doesn’t have to?

Out of control doom bonering but hard to imagine the gop not roaring back after 2 years of sleepy joe and gridlock.

Yea they'd be limited for sure.

But say they only get to 49-51. 2022 is another big defense year for the GOP senate. If the country is stuck in gridlock, they need to just hammer home the message that its the GOP gridlock and then get those few seats to flip that they'd need to actually try and govern in the back half of a Biden presidency.

Hopefully that's not the scenario they'll face though. And frankly hopefully the margin in big enough that any 2022 midterm rebound doesn't wipe out their gains, but that will obviously be a risk even if they gain control.


Dems winning control of Senate in 2020 only for Pubs to flip it in '22 is incredibly unlikely. The only defense Dems would be playing would be New Hampshire(Hassan), and any special elections they win in '20(Mark Kelly-AZ, Raphael Warnock-GA). If Warnock wins the special election in GA, the Dem advantage would almost certainly be large enough that him losing in '22 would not cost them control.

Meanwhile, Pubs are defending 6 states - FL(Rubio), IA(Grassley), NC(Burr-retiring), OH(Portman), PA(Toomey-retiring), & WI(Johnson) +AZ/GA special election wins.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:22 pm

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:29 pm

Politics aside, it is terrifyingly clear that this person is in absolutely no way qualified to be a Supreme Court Justice.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby gflore34 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:37 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:


That was a yes or no question, no gray area there, not that it matters but, wtf hypothetical situation would allow for voter intimidation?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:43 pm

gflore34 wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:


That was a yes or no question, no gray area there, not that it matters but, wtf hypothetical situation would allow for voter intimidation?


I am genuinely torn between whether she's carrying water for Trump, or honestly didn't know for sure.

And both reasons would be horsefeathering horrible!
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Derwood » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:45 pm

As I said earlier, she has shrouded herself in "I can't have an opinion unless there's a 6 month court case and I have a dozen clerks doing research 24/7"

She absolutely won't give her opinion about anything
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:47 pm

gflore34 wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:


That was a yes or no question, no gray area there, not that it matters but, wtf hypothetical situation would allow for voter intimidation?

Is it normal to quiz a court nominee on any current laws on the books (I still don't quite understand ACB's response), but was there are broader line of questioning outside of that which led to that Q?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:49 pm

@ Iowa peeps: is Sand the person to run against Grassley in '22?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:55 pm

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby gflore34 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:05 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:


A little harsh with the hates people wanting them to die, more like there's no money it for the GOP, resulting in the same outcome. Guess the hates people message might resonate more with voters.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CubinNY » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:12 pm

UMFan83 wrote:
stitchface wrote:
gflore34 wrote:
Is it not effectively a done deal? I do not see how any line of questioning is going to make a difference certainly had no effect with Kavanaugh well, other than revealing he's a complete POS. Which is just what SouthSideRyan posted, should have read the previous post closer.

Should there be anything questionable regarding her character, I wonder which GOP Senator is going to play the "I'm confirming with a heavy heart" role this time? Collins certainly likes to play this role along with that idiot from Alaska.


I think the point of the questioning is to do political damage to influence the election. Perhaps there is some dream a GOP senator in trouble defects.


Yep that’s the only real angle. But if they couldn’t get anyone to defect in that trainwreck that was Kavanaugh there is no way any GOP senators will defect knowing that they are facing a realistic scenario where Dems will control the House, Senate and presidency in the very near future. If anything we will see someone like Doug Jones vote to confirm in a desperate ploy to keep his Senate seat in Alabama

Jones is a hard no. if he's going down, he's going down on prinipcle. Alabama doesn't really deserve a Senator like him. In any other state outside of the bible belt he'd win by 15-20 points. Richard Shelby, the other Senator from Alabama called him a good man who happens to be a Democrat. That he is.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby gflore34 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:12 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:@ Iowa peeps: is Sand the person to run against Grassley in '22?



Don't think doing homework is in Trump' bag of tricks pathetic, though, that Grassley sees the need for a homework assignment. And hint, hint, talk about ideas, plans to deal with the issues instead of the usual nonsense.
Last edited by gflore34 on Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby stitchface » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:26 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:Only the Dems are required to "be above politics" and "play by the rules." It is orthodoxy that the GOP will do neither. There's very real freedom in that for them. Hell, even among liberals, in this thread even, there's constant pining for "a return to normalcy"...something that hasn't existed in my lifetime.



I think this goes back to Thomas Jefferson . . .
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby SouthSideRyan » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:46 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:@ Iowa peeps: is Sand the person to run against Grassley in '22?


Grassley will be 89 on election day 2022.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:08 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:@ Iowa peeps: is Sand the person to run against Grassley in '22?

I have faith that list will be quite long. Sand probably wouldn't be a terrible replacement for that old dumb horsefeathers.
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