Politics & Current Events

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby squally1313 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:39 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Because it's all but meaningless given all of the other terrible stuff he's supported.



I was thinking about this yesterday...does anyone else think it's a little weird that Collins/Murkowski/McCain/etc. seem to get much more criticism than the rest of the more hard right republicans? Like, I get that McCain is a hypocrite and sold out the country on the tax vote, likely for the repeal of the estate tax, but just given the tax vote and the Obamacare Repeal vote, isn't he still better than 90% of the Republicans? I get that it's a total waste of time to go after someone who is never going to consider changing their vote from party lines, but just seems weird that those few go down as the big villains in all of this.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Banedon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:42 pm

squally1313 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Because it's all but meaningless given all of the other terrible stuff he's supported.



I was thinking about this yesterday...does anyone else think it's a little weird that Collins/Murkowski/McCain/etc. seem to get much more criticism than the rest of the more hard right republicans? Like, I get that McCain is a hypocrite and sold out the country on the tax vote, likely for the repeal of the estate tax, but just given the tax vote and the Obamacare Repeal vote, isn't he still better than 90% of the Republicans? I get that it's a total waste of time to go after someone who is never going to consider changing their vote from party lines, but just seems weird that those few go down as the big villains in all of this.


I don't know that they get more criticism, but they get more focus, because those are the ones that public opinion/public shaming can actually sway. The rest are so shameless that they don't care.

It's the same reason that purple states get such a focus during elections. Nobody's spending energy trying to sway hard red states.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:42 pm

Tim wrote:
Banedon wrote:
SouthSideRyan wrote:People, even some Republicans aren't 2-dimensional figures. Flake could have done a lot of nasty, regressive things, that doesn't mean he should be called out for things he does that aren't. That's how you lose a message and sound like the Republican Congress under Obama.


Just because on occasion a Republican decides "nope, this is one step too evil for me" doesn't mean they get to be praised for it. Just like McCain wasn't a hero for voting to NOT take away millions of people's healthcare, Flake is no hero for donating the cost of a year of Amazon Prime to a child molester's opponent.

Sure - but when they do something that's actually decent is a weird time to point out how generally awful they are.

No it isn't. When an awful person who routinely does awful things does an occasional good thing, it's important to point out how awful they normally are. It's how you deal with mobsters and celebrities that rape people then send them flowers.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:44 pm

Because while they're all irredeemable, useless garbage people, the ones like the people you listed still have this craven desire to be seen and admired as somehow not being hopelessly lost to the Dark Side, even though they are. McCain's desperate plea to get 3 million Twitter followers that hilariously blew up in his face is basically the perfect personification of this, "gee, ain't I stinker?" nonsense where they want to have it both ways. They want to be seen as dignified and diplomatic and reasonable even though they aren't. Basically they want to be completely awful human beings, but have their ego cake and eat it, too.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Tim » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:47 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Just because on occasion a Republican decides "nope, this is one step too evil for me" doesn't mean they get to be praised for it. Just like McCain wasn't a hero for voting to NOT take away millions of people's healthcare, Flake is no hero for donating the cost of a year of Amazon Prime to a child molester's opponent.

Sure - but when they do something that's actually decent is a weird time to point out how generally awful they are.

No it isn't. When an awful person who routinely does awful things does an occasional good thing, it's important to point out how awful they normally are. It's how you deal with mobsters and celebrities that rape people then send them flowers.

The time for jumping all over Flake about the tax bill was prior to him casting his vote. And then again after he voted for that atrocity. Giving him louder criticism when he crosses party lines gives him disincentive to do it again in the future.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:53 pm

Tim wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:Sure - but when they do something that's actually decent is a weird time to point out how generally awful they are.

No it isn't. When an awful person who routinely does awful things does an occasional good thing, it's important to point out how awful they normally are. It's how you deal with mobsters and celebrities that rape people then send them flowers.

The time for jumping all over Flake about the tax bill was prior to him casting his vote. And then again after he voted for that atrocity. Giving him louder criticism when he crosses party lines gives him disincentive to do it again in the future.


So we had 2 days to jump on him and then that time was up when he wrote the check? What if he wrote the check on the same day he voted? Flake has voted for a continuous string of beyond god awful nominees and bills, he's not crossing the aisle. He'll get the lapdog response he desires from the "both sideists" out there and be happy with the kudos he gets from MSNBC and CNN. He doesn't need mine.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:56 pm

Boy, yeah, wouldn't want to scare of the retiring senator from "crossing party lines" in the future. I mean, he donated a whole hundred bucks to a lost cause and then basked in the Tweet-love within a day of caving and willfully voting for this abomination of a tax bill. He's practically a hero!
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:57 pm

Tim wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:Sure - but when they do something that's actually decent is a weird time to point out how generally awful they are.

No it isn't. When an awful person who routinely does awful things does an occasional good thing, it's important to point out how awful they normally are. It's how you deal with mobsters and celebrities that rape people then send them flowers.

The time for jumping all over Flake about the tax bill was prior to him casting his vote. And then again after he voted for that atrocity. Giving him louder criticism when he crosses party lines gives him disincentive to do it again in the future.


Damn, who knew Michael Rapaport posted here.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:57 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:No it isn't. When an awful person who routinely does awful things does an occasional good thing, it's important to point out how awful they normally are. It's how you deal with mobsters and celebrities that rape people then send them flowers.

The time for jumping all over Flake about the tax bill was prior to him casting his vote. And then again after he voted for that atrocity. Giving him louder criticism when he crosses party lines gives him disincentive to do it again in the future.


So we had 2 days to jump on him and then that time was up when he wrote the check? What if he wrote the check on the same day he voted? Flake has voted for a continuous string of beyond god awful nominees and bills, he's not crossing the aisle. He'll get the lapdog response he desires from the "both sideists" out there and be happy with the kudos he gets from MSNBC and CNN. He doesn't need mine.


This is basically porn for "centrists."
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Tim » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:07 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:No it isn't. When an awful person who routinely does awful things does an occasional good thing, it's important to point out how awful they normally are. It's how you deal with mobsters and celebrities that rape people then send them flowers.

The time for jumping all over Flake about the tax bill was prior to him casting his vote. And then again after he voted for that atrocity. Giving him louder criticism when he crosses party lines gives him disincentive to do it again in the future.


So we had 2 days to jump on him and then that time was up when he wrote the check? What if he wrote the check on the same day he voted? Flake has voted for a continuous string of beyond god awful nominees and bills, he's not crossing the aisle. He'll get the lapdog response he desires from the "both sideists" out there and be happy with the kudos he gets from MSNBC and CNN. He doesn't need mine.

It's a free country - jump all over him whenever you want. I'll pick on him for the many, many awful things he does, not the occasional decent one.

I'm not lavishing him with praise here. I'm just choosing to not pick on him when he does something decent.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Banedon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:09 pm

Tim wrote:I'm not lavishing him with praise here. I'm just choosing to not pick on him when he does something decent.


If a terrible person does one good thing, it's absolutely reasonable to point out the inconsistency.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby TruffleShuffle » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:10 pm

regardless of your feelings on flake, at least we can all agree that ben sasse is even more useless.



note: he's lying about jones' position on abortion.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Derwood » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:14 pm

Note: ALL Republicans lie about ALL Democrats’ positions on abortion
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby squally1313 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:43 pm

At this point I'm with Sofa...the Alabama race is lost. What the Democrats and the media need to do in the next week or so is hammer Trump and any other republican who is endorsing Moore. It's one thing for the anti-Muslim, 10 Commandments over the Constitution viewpoints to fly in Alabama, it's quite another for the President to tacitly support those views (obviously, to say nothing of the pedophilia). I get his retweets for this week, but this is a currently serving Representative that Moore thinks should be barred from Congress on the basis of his religion (and has yet to back off those statements).

It was jaw dropping yesterday when Sanders was asked, point blank, "does (Trump) agree with Roy Moore that Muslins should not be able to serve in Congress?" and she refused to just give a simple "no". That should be the first question at every briefing/press conference/etc.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:45 pm

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby squally1313 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:45 pm

Up to 5 Democratic Senators calling for Franken to resign after (shocker) another allegation. Way too late, but hopefully these are the first steps to get him out of there.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:50 pm

538 had a good breakdown in a Moore article the other day of each state and the margin of Republican victory or defeat in recent elections:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lo ... lous-past/

Basically Alabama was always a lost cause, and what is shaping up to likely happen is just proof of that. Looking at that list, there's a good dozen states that the Democrats can essentially just write off at having any chance in (barring a presidential candidate actually from one of them); they're not going to win there even if the Republicans are running a monster, as we're seeing right now. But there's a good 20 or so states that they could have a real shot in if they put in the work and the right candidates. Winning AL would have been a bizarre, fluke-ish and welcome get, but looking at it realistically it never should have even been on the table in the first place. The Democrats still do have a real shot to get their horsefeathers together and make some real gains without losing sleep over AL and it's other hopelessly Red brethren states.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby TruffleShuffle » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:50 pm

meanwhile, fat ass republican congressman blake farenthold sexually harassed a staffer and then fired her, and there has been a cacophony of crickets about his position. plus, you know, a pedophile is about to be elected to the senate and donald trump is still president.

i don't really care that franken is going to be forced to retire and that creep conyers retired, but it's going to be annoying when the democrats start preening about having the moral high ground while they lose seats to the party with zero ethical requirements for its members.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:51 pm

hahahahahahahahaha



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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:52 pm

TruffleShuffle wrote:meanwhile, fat ass republican congressman blake farenthold sexually harassed a staffer and then fired her, and there has been a cacophony of crickets about his position. plus, you know, a pedophile is about to be elected to the senate and donald trump is still president.

i don't really care that franken is going to be forced to retire and that creep conyers retired, but it's going to be annoying when the democrats start preening about having the moral high ground while they lose seats to the party with zero ethical requirements for its members.


They're not losing Franken or Conyers' seats. It's win-win to get them out, take the high road, AND keep those seats.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Banedon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:54 pm

And since the House doesn't want to give in to the deals that the Senate made with Collins, this bill still has a lot more hurdles than it appeared when it passed the Senate the other night.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby squally1313 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:57 pm

As an accountant, the total and complete AMT botch makes me so happy. What incompetency.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Brian707 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:59 pm

I just picked this book up, anybody read this yet?

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby SouthSideRyan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:06 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Because it's all but meaningless given all of the other terrible stuff he's supported.

You and SSR are gonna flounce hand in hand into that voting booth, aren't you?


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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby TruffleShuffle » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:08 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
TruffleShuffle wrote:meanwhile, fat ass republican congressman blake farenthold sexually harassed a staffer and then fired her, and there has been a cacophony of crickets about his position. plus, you know, a pedophile is about to be elected to the senate and donald trump is still president.

i don't really care that franken is going to be forced to retire and that creep conyers retired, but it's going to be annoying when the democrats start preening about having the moral high ground while they lose seats to the party with zero ethical requirements for its members.


They're not losing Franken or Conyers' seats. It's win-win to get them out, take the high road, AND keep those seats.


they won't lose franken's seat now, although there will be a special election and since people in minnesota keep getting older and whiter, it's quite conceivable that democrats could lose it. and there will be others beyond franken and conyers, like the congressman from nevada whose name i've forgotten. (senator) pelosi already called for him to step down.

i don't really care about protecting creeps, but i have little confidence that voters will reward democrats for having the moral high ground, given recent history.
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