Politics & Current Events

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby SouthSideRyan » Mon May 14, 2018 12:46 am

The Iowa Caucus is 20 months away. 2018 is the priority.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon May 14, 2018 12:58 am

SouthSideRyan wrote:2018 is the priority.


I know; that's what worries me.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby SouthSideRyan » Mon May 14, 2018 1:23 am

Dem polls Jun 1-4 2006:

Code: Select all

Hillary Clinton 36%
Al Gore 16%
John Edwards 12%
John Kerry 11%
Joe Biden 4%
Wesley Clark 4%
Russ Feingold 3%
Mark Warner 2%


Code: Select all

Hillary Clinton 31%
Al Gore 18%
John Kerry 14%
John Edwards 11%
Joe Biden 4%
Wesley Clark 3%
Mark Warner 3%
Evan Bayh 2%
Russ Feingold 2%
Bill Richardson 2%
Christopher Dodd 1%
Tom Vilsack 0%
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon May 14, 2018 1:55 am

Yeah, Obama started showing up after his book came out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwid ... _primaries

The big thing missing now is the anchor (in all senses of the word) of Clinton. For better or for worse, Clinton set the table due in no small part to her actually being a viable candidate. Right now the role of Clinton is being played by Biden or Sanders, depending on who you ask. That does not fill me with confidence.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon May 14, 2018 1:57 am

And if anyone's curious/forgotten as to why the hell Gore is all over those polls, that's right when An Inconvenient Truth came out.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon May 14, 2018 2:10 am

I'm so confused.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby SouthSideRyan » Mon May 14, 2018 2:26 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:Yeah, Obama started showing up after his book came out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwid ... _primaries

The big thing missing now is the anchor (in all senses of the word) of Clinton. For better or for worse, Clinton set the table due in no small part to her actually being a viable candidate. Right now the role of Clinton is being played by Biden or Sanders, depending on who you ask. That does not fill me with confidence.


So...Obama hadn't done anything by this point?
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby SouthSideRyan » Mon May 14, 2018 3:01 am

Gillibrand and Harris have appeared on Colbert this year.

Garcetti, Klobuchar, and Seth Moulton(missed his book in the above) appeared on Seth Meyers.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Andy » Mon May 14, 2018 4:10 am

SouthSideRyan wrote:Gillibrand and Harris have appeared on Colbert this year.

Garcetti, Klobuchar, and Seth Moulton(missed his book in the above) appeared on Seth Meyers.

Buttigieg did Seth's show too.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby SouthSideRyan » Mon May 14, 2018 4:12 am

I was just talking 2018 for those appearances to make it easier to search out. Expanding it to 2017 would certainly add several more appearances for prospective nominees.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Mon May 14, 2018 4:36 am

I still have not seen Mojo acknowledge that Cory Booker is a person who exists. He is the front runner by a country mile. He has been in the nation's public gaze for years and he has helped candiates across the country with appearances and support for a long while now. I can't tell if he's trolling or if he just hates the guy. I almost definitely won't vote for the guy in the primary, but I think he's close to as likely as the field, at this point, to win. 30-40% likely.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon May 14, 2018 1:33 pm

DiceMan4221 wrote:I still have not seen Mojo acknowledge that Cory Booker is a person who exists. He is the front runner by a country mile. He has been in the nation's public gaze for years and he has helped candiates across the country with appearances and support for a long while now. I can't tell if he's trolling or if he just hates the guy. I almost definitely won't vote for the guy in the primary, but I think he's close to as likely as the field, at this point, to win. 30-40% likely.


I just mentioned him, like, a page ago, with Harris and Warren because I think the three of them should be the likely non-Biden and non-Sanders frontrunners at the moment, and I would like to see them driving the party and this process (even if ultimately the nominee maybe comes from some of the other names that SSR listed). My concern, again, is that the Democrats are treating too much of this like business as usual, and that clearly dividing their focus between this fall and then 2020 is potentially a mistake. They're a party, at the moment, without any real viable longterm tentpole issues they're really driving as their issues, or public figures that they are rallying behind. People like Schumer, Pelosi, Biden and Sanders are largely driving the party's identity and public perceptions, and I don't think that's a path to all of the victories that they need to win. By this time I would have thought people like Booker and Warren and Harris would have taken the point, but they all have, IMO, oddly laid relatively low compared to 2017. To me, these aren't the actions of a party that is truly energizing and mobilizing its base as much as they could and, again, as much as they need to, and it comes across more like a lot of people circling, and the field is going to remain too cluttered for too long because the narrative is going to be dictated by Biden and Sanders until it's too late.

Everything about how they're dancing around things right now worries me in that they've seemingly decided to run with "we're not Trump/the GOP" as their main selling point for, well, everything, and that they're worried/unsure about what Sanders is going to do. I think they need to get out ahead of both paths ASAP; there's no "too soon" right now. They need to head Sanders off at the path, because until he definitively says he's not running and/or definitively backs other Democrats, there's too sizable a support base for him that needs to be sold sooner rather than later on an alternative, and I'm not confident in Sanders doing the sensible thing at all. Like I said before, if they wait too long, they potentially end up with the problem the Republicans had that allowed Trump to end up with the nomination in the first place with a cluttered field of candidates. Focus on a new group of potential candidates/faces of the party, and focus on what they want to make their key issues that will fuel both the state/local elections this year and 2020 beyond simply, "hey, you hate that Trump guy, right?" Make the Democrats an appealing movement as opposed to a collection of random parts that simply have a (D) after their names instead of an (R).

Guys, trust me, I get it; I'm worried about this and you're not. Like I said before, I will be very happy to be wrong. This time I'll keep my pledge to punch out and spare you more doom bonering.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby TBS Playoffs Insider » Mon May 14, 2018 2:29 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:This time I'll keep my pledge to punch out and spare you more doom bonering.


lol no you wont
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon May 14, 2018 2:44 pm

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:This time I'll keep my pledge to punch out and spare you more doom bonering.


lol no you wont


Nah, I'm good this time. This isn't fun; people seem to want to respond like they think I'm actively rooting for the Democrats to fail, or am opposed to them.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Mon May 14, 2018 2:45 pm

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Mon May 14, 2018 2:49 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote: Make the Democrats an appealing movement as opposed to a collection of random parts that simply have a (D) after their names instead of an (R).

At the national level the Dems clearly are exactly that. Is there any issue you can think of that would unify such a disparate group (as evidenced by the Bernie Bro silliness earlier in the thread) OTHER than "Trump sucks"? Sure, 2004 might just play out again, but I don't see any other way to play it. Get a moderate, well-liked candidate that can get out the minority vote and push the right issue buttons and call it an election.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon May 14, 2018 3:01 pm

DiceMan4221 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote: Make the Democrats an appealing movement as opposed to a collection of random parts that simply have a (D) after their names instead of an (R).

At the national level the Dems clearly are exactly that. Is there any issue you can think of that would unify such a disparate group (as evidenced by the Bernie Bro silliness earlier in the thread) OTHER than "Trump sucks"? Sure, 2004 might just play out again, but I don't see any other way to play it. Get a moderate, well-liked candidate that can get out the minority vote and push the right issue buttons and call it an election.


Health care, IMO. That's something that resonates across the board right now, regardless of whether the economy is in the toilet or not, and I'll just leave it at that.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Banedon » Mon May 14, 2018 3:30 pm

The Supreme Court struck down a federal law that prohibits sports gambling Monday in a landmark decision that gives states the go-ahead to legalize betting on sports.

The court ruled to strike down the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act (PAPSA), a 1992 law that barred state-authorized sports gambling with some exceptions. It made Nevada the only state where a person could wager on the results of a single game.


http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/23 ... s-gambling
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Mon May 14, 2018 4:23 pm

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby UMFan83 » Mon May 14, 2018 4:55 pm

Banedon wrote:
The Supreme Court struck down a federal law that prohibits sports gambling Monday in a landmark decision that gives states the go-ahead to legalize betting on sports.

The court ruled to strike down the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act (PAPSA), a 1992 law that barred state-authorized sports gambling with some exceptions. It made Nevada the only state where a person could wager on the results of a single game.


http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/23 ... s-gambling


I wonder how many states will actually allow it and how it will be structured.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Mon May 14, 2018 4:57 pm

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Mon May 14, 2018 5:40 pm

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon May 14, 2018 5:56 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
DiceMan4221 wrote:I still have not seen Mojo acknowledge that Cory Booker is a person who exists. He is the front runner by a country mile. He has been in the nation's public gaze for years and he has helped candiates across the country with appearances and support for a long while now. I can't tell if he's trolling or if he just hates the guy. I almost definitely won't vote for the guy in the primary, but I think he's close to as likely as the field, at this point, to win. 30-40% likely.


I just mentioned him, like, a page ago, with Harris and Warren because I think the three of them should be the likely non-Biden and non-Sanders frontrunners at the moment, and I would like to see them driving the party and this process (even if ultimately the nominee maybe comes from some of the other names that SSR listed). My concern, again, is that the Democrats are treating too much of this like business as usual, and that clearly dividing their focus between this fall and then 2020 is potentially a mistake. They're a party, at the moment, without any real viable longterm tentpole issues they're really driving as their issues, or public figures that they are rallying behind. People like Schumer, Pelosi, Biden and Sanders are largely driving the party's identity and public perceptions, and I don't think that's a path to all of the victories that they need to win. By this time I would have thought people like Booker and Warren and Harris would have taken the point, but they all have, IMO, oddly laid relatively low compared to 2017. To me, these aren't the actions of a party that is truly energizing and mobilizing its base as much as they could and, again, as much as they need to, and it comes across more like a lot of people circling, and the field is going to remain too cluttered for too long because the narrative is going to be dictated by Biden and Sanders until it's too late.

Everything about how they're dancing around things right now worries me in that they've seemingly decided to run with "we're not Trump/the GOP" as their main selling point for, well, everything, and that they're worried/unsure about what Sanders is going to do. I think they need to get out ahead of both paths ASAP; there's no "too soon" right now. They need to head Sanders off at the path, because until he definitively says he's not running and/or definitively backs other Democrats, there's too sizable a support base for him that needs to be sold sooner rather than later on an alternative, and I'm not confident in Sanders doing the sensible thing at all. Like I said before, if they wait too long, they potentially end up with the problem the Republicans had that allowed Trump to end up with the nomination in the first place with a cluttered field of candidates. Focus on a new group of potential candidates/faces of the party, and focus on what they want to make their key issues that will fuel both the state/local elections this year and 2020 beyond simply, "hey, you hate that Trump guy, right?" Make the Democrats an appealing movement as opposed to a collection of random parts that simply have a (D) after their names instead of an (R).

Guys, trust me, I get it; I'm worried about this and you're not. Like I said before, I will be very happy to be wrong. This time I'll keep my pledge to punch out and spare you more doom bonering.

We have senators advancing guaranteed job bill (well I guess not technically advancing, but introducing). Medicare for all has a ton of signed co sponsors. They're very obviously taking some serious steps to at the very least test out messaging beyond "not Trump". Hell the jobs thing could even probably get Trump looped into it in some form.

Both of things would have been laughed off even 2-3 years ago by most of the party. So I think there is something they are trying to stake their future on. Well see if it ends up being more appealing than the Trump/GOP populist message mainly of tax cuts (Trump for his part also at times had straight up progressive economic populism messaging but has governed on exactly zero of it- well maybe TPP)

This is also the point where I point out I disagree with a lot of the economic populism, but grant it could feasibly work.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Derwood » Mon May 14, 2018 10:01 pm



There are no leakers! Also, we are going to punish all the leakers!
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