Politics & Current Events

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WrigleyField 22
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:56 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Ding Dong Johnson wrote:I like that I have health insurance.

I horsefeathering hate every health insurance plan I have had in the past 20 years.


Yeah, the idea of "keeping your plan if you like it" is such a dead on arrival idea considering that most people don't actually like their horsefeathering plan. Fear/lack of understanding/etc. of an alternative isn't actually "liking" the horsefeathers insurance plan they almost certainly already have. Pretty much everyone's plan is some variation of horsefeathering terrible.

There's definitely a messaging issue to get across. The Medicare moniker might actually be a hindrance in that regard since it is a plan that leaves gaps and the idea of covering those would be understandably scary.

But if you told people they could have a plan with
1. zero co-pays
2. zero deductibles
3. zero co-insurance
4. everything is in network
5. the cost will be less than it is now (i.e. less in new taxes than your current premium)

Number 5 is probably the hardest to convince people that M4A would do (and obviously for some portion of Americans they would pay more to subsidize the rest). And you may still have some stubborn people who have HMOs or other plans that insist they like the super low premium cost over the wealth of coverage options, but most people who've actually ended up using their HMO for serious illness probably lose their love affair with it. But if you get people around on number 5, I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who wouldn't sign up for that plan unless they were just being willfully ignorant and pulling out straw-men argument like claiming that the government will actually administer your healthcare.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sank888 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:58 am

This is going to be mayhem.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NonProfitCow » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:55 am

Sank888 wrote:This is going to be mayhem.

What is?
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:12 am

Thank you Mr. Steyer please take your complimentary towel and there’s an Uber waiting outside
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Regular Show » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:49 am


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"It was met with, basically, he didn't want to talk about that. He didn't want me to tell him that. I just basically said, 'Well that's why we want an electronic strike zone.'" -- Ben Zobrist

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:55 am

Biden: I wrote the bill! I wrote that bill too! I wrote the Declaration of Independence!
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:15 am

I'm on tape delay, but even early on the crowd seems strangely centrist-loving. Looked it up...

Tickets for the event cost 1.7 grand.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:22 am

Puget Sound is getting real paranoid over the coronavirus
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Regular Show » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:21 am

Meant to post this earlier lol:
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"It was met with, basically, he didn't want to talk about that. He didn't want me to tell him that. I just basically said, 'Well that's why we want an electronic strike zone.'" -- Ben Zobrist

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Regular Show » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:37 am


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"It was met with, basically, he didn't want to talk about that. He didn't want me to tell him that. I just basically said, 'Well that's why we want an electronic strike zone.'" -- Ben Zobrist

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Derwood » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:49 pm

Sanders needs to cool it with the Castro stuff. It’s not just turning off voters, it’s really pissing them off. He’s one step away from “yes, but Hitler really made the trains run on time”

And yes, the vast majority of Cuban-Americans probably weren’t considering him to begin with, but don’t poison the well fro the rest of the candidates.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sank888 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:32 pm

It is funny that slightly ameliorating Castro, who is dead and whose sphere of influence peaked 60 years ago, is somehow orders of magnitude more outrageous than Bloomberg completely misunderstanding China who is currently/basically holds a dual hegemony in the world economy and possibly the worlds health recently.

Politically of course it’s so stupid of sanders to whiff on this because you can’t expect people to take it in context.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:05 pm

Who gives a horsefeathers about Castro? Literacy is a good thing!
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Derwood » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:13 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:Who gives a horsefeathers about Castro? Literacy is a good thing!


The literacy that already existed years before Castro took over?
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby David » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:19 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:Who gives a horsefeathers about Castro? Literacy is a good thing!


I do.

I'm still going to vote blue no matter who (not that it really matters in this state) but those comments do not sit well with me at all.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:56 pm

David wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:Who gives a horsefeathers about Castro? Literacy is a good thing!


I do.

I'm still going to vote blue no matter who (not that it really matters in this state) but those comments do not sit well with me at all.



Not to put you on the spot, but are you Cuban-American? What bothers you about his comments? I don’t see much wrong other then it gave some credit to a dictator. But credit for a good healthcare system and education system is hardly sinful to me.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CubinNY » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:57 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:Who gives a horsefeathers about Castro? Literacy is a good thing!

Lots of people in Florida and elsewhere. Bernie is an idiot for not distancing himself from the Communism moniker they are trying to hang on him. There are a lot of Latinos who are predisposed to vote blue due to Trump's policies who come from Venezuela or have Cuban heritage that will not vote for him. To me, this is the number 1 problem if he wins the nomination. Florida will be in play for almost any Democrat except for him. If he gets the nomination the path to victory is more narrow.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby David » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:00 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
David wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:Who gives a horsefeathers about Castro? Literacy is a good thing!


I do.

I'm still going to vote blue no matter who (not that it really matters in this state) but those comments do not sit well with me at all.



Not to put you on the spot, but are you Cuban-American? What bothers you about his comments? I don’t see much wrong other then it gave some credit to a dictator. But credit for a good healthcare system and education system is hardly sinful to me.


I am.

As for the latter, I'm also extremely skeptical of the statistics coming from that government and health care and education were good in Cuba before Castro anyway.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:12 pm

David wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
David wrote:
I do.

I'm still going to vote blue no matter who (not that it really matters in this state) but those comments do not sit well with me at all.



Not to put you on the spot, but are you Cuban-American? What bothers you about his comments? I don’t see much wrong other then it gave some credit to a dictator. But credit for a good healthcare system and education system is hardly sinful to me.


I am.

As for the latter, I'm also extremely skeptical of the statistics coming from that government and health care and education were good in Cuba before Castro anyway.



I sympathize with anyones flight from authoritarian rule, freedom is paramount. I guess I see the reaction to his comments more in vein of people trying to brand any state directed social welfare program as a bad idea that can never work. IE, the gov’t screws up everything. That idea is being demonized because Castro sits atop, therefor health and education should NEVER be state ordained...and we cant talk about how it might actually be working.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:26 pm

Derwood wrote:Sanders needs to cool it with the Castro stuff. It’s not just turning off voters, it’s really pissing them off. He’s one step away from “yes, but Hitler really made the trains run on time”

And yes, the vast majority of Cuban-Americans probably weren’t considering him to begin with, but don’t poison the well fro the rest of the candidates.

He isn't running on a Castro platform. He keeps getting asked questions about him, and he's answering honestly. Who, exactly, is poisoning the well here?

Maybe you can ask him about Hitler tho, and see if he's actually "one step" from praising Nazis.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:32 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Derwood wrote:Sanders needs to cool it with the Castro stuff. It’s not just turning off voters, it’s really pissing them off. He’s one step away from “yes, but Hitler really made the trains run on time”

And yes, the vast majority of Cuban-Americans probably weren’t considering him to begin with, but don’t poison the well fro the rest of the candidates.

He isn't running on a Castro platform. He keeps getting asked questions about him, and he's answering honestly. Who, exactly, is poisoning the well here?

Maybe you can ask him about Hitler tho, and see if he's actually "one step" from praising Nazis.

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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Derwood » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:53 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Derwood wrote:Sanders needs to cool it with the Castro stuff. It’s not just turning off voters, it’s really pissing them off. He’s one step away from “yes, but Hitler really made the trains run on time”

And yes, the vast majority of Cuban-Americans probably weren’t considering him to begin with, but don’t poison the well fro the rest of the candidates.

He isn't running on a Castro platform. He keeps getting asked questions about him, and he's answering honestly. Who, exactly, is poisoning the well here?

Maybe you can ask him about Hitler tho, and see if he's actually "one step" from praising Nazis.


Except that it's super easy for him to just decry Castro as a dictator WITHOUT then praising him in the next sentence!! He keeps getting asked the questions because he keeps giving stupid answers

No one says that he's running on a Castro platform. But he deserves the exact same criticism about his Castro comments as Trump does when he praises Putin or Kim Jong Un
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:56 pm

Derwood wrote:No one says that he's running on a Castro platform. But he deserves the exact same criticism about his Castro comments as Trump does when he praises Putin or Kim Jong Un

Except Trump doesn't get criticized for that praise.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Derwood » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:57 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Derwood wrote:No one says that he's running on a Castro platform. But he deserves the exact same criticism about his Castro comments as Trump does when he praises Putin or Kim Jong Un

Except Trump doesn't get criticized for that praise.


Sure he does, just not from his supporters.
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Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Derwood » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:00 pm

David wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
David wrote:
I do.

I'm still going to vote blue no matter who (not that it really matters in this state) but those comments do not sit well with me at all.



Not to put you on the spot, but are you Cuban-American? What bothers you about his comments? I don’t see much wrong other then it gave some credit to a dictator. But credit for a good healthcare system and education system is hardly sinful to me.


I am.

As for the latter, I'm also extremely skeptical of the statistics coming from that government and health care and education were good in Cuba before Castro anyway.


Correct. Sanders is (weirdly) parroting talking points that Castro promoted while he was in power. History shows that literacy in Cuba was better than most Central and South American countries years before Castro took power. Also, the promotion of Cuba's health care system (propagated, in part, by Michael Moore) as this great system is vastly overblown. Pharmacies are nearly empty. Antibiotics are hard to find.

I have a slew of very vocal in-laws who lived in Cuba under Castro, and I'll trust their first-hand recollections about life in Cuba over Sanders, thank you
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