#MeToo

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Re: #MeToo

Postby JennieGarthAlgar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:18 pm

Bobson Dugnutt wrote:i think it’s important to have someone like JGA around to make sure Aroldis Chapman and James Franco get their fair shake.


I came around and changed my position on Chapman after I learned more about the story and would do the same here should it be proven Franco actually harmed someone, but I do have a hard time seeing a victim here without knowing all of the context.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby JennieGarthAlgar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:19 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:First of all, that's not the only thing Franco has been accused of, and secondly, this whole "don't lump in X with X" is such a nonsense false equivalency to begin with. Who cares if he's looked at as being on a big pile of scumbags? Nothing is happening to these guys. Nothing. Cosby MIGHT live long enough to get a slap on the wrist. Wooooooooo. James Franco doesn't need to be protected by you or anyone else.

But what does it matter? Anything else has already just been declared to be "flaming" by "SJWs." How convenient.


What are his other accusations? Honest question.

I'm not protecting him, what Im trying to say is there are real victims out there and their stories are vetted and then reported when found to be accurate. These are twitter accusations and on the surface, don't appear to have been illegal. More stories getting picked up this way will hurt the movement and actual victims IMO.

The one woman tweeted in the past that she once faked a pregnancy just to get a guy to reply to her. I don't see people like this contributing positively to bringing about the change we need in this area, thats all.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:28 pm

JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Bobson Dugnutt wrote:i think it’s important to have someone like JGA around to make sure Aroldis Chapman and James Franco get their fair shake.


I came around and changed my position on Chapman after I learned more about the story and would do the same here should it be proven Franco actually harmed someone, but I do have a hard time seeing a victim here without knowing all of the context.


I think your takeaway from the Chapman situation should be applied more broadly. Maybe wait to make posts discrediting accusers or mocking the reaction of the general public until you do have more context.

And, I think an important lesson from this daily onslaught of revelations is that these women and their stories should be listened to. They shouldn’t be mocked, shouted down, and silenced.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby JennieGarthAlgar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:37 pm

Bobson Dugnutt wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Bobson Dugnutt wrote:i think it’s important to have someone like JGA around to make sure Aroldis Chapman and James Franco get their fair shake.


I came around and changed my position on Chapman after I learned more about the story and would do the same here should it be proven Franco actually harmed someone, but I do have a hard time seeing a victim here without knowing all of the context.


I think your takeaway from the Chapman situation should be applied more broadly. Maybe wait to make posts discrediting accusers or mocking the reaction of the general public until you do have more context.

And, I think an important lesson from this daily onslaught of revelations is that these women and their stories should be listened to. They shouldn’t be mocked, shouted down, and silenced.


Ehh, I dont know. I was wrong on Chapman and I admitted it. I have no problem doing that. I guess im hung up on accepting that 'someone signed a contract for a job that they performed twice but later regrets it' is a victim of abuse somehow, but I'd love to learn more
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:42 pm

JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Bobson Dugnutt wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
I came around and changed my position on Chapman after I learned more about the story and would do the same here should it be proven Franco actually harmed someone, but I do have a hard time seeing a victim here without knowing all of the context.


I think your takeaway from the Chapman situation should be applied more broadly. Maybe wait to make posts discrediting accusers or mocking the reaction of the general public until you do have more context.

And, I think an important lesson from this daily onslaught of revelations is that these women and their stories should be listened to. They shouldn’t be mocked, shouted down, and silenced.


Ehh, I dont know. I was wrong on Chapman and I admitted it. I have no problem doing that. I guess im hung up on accepting that 'someone signed a contract for a job that they performed twice but later regrets it' is a victim of abuse somehow, but I'd love to learn more


I have no interest in adding conjecture to this woman’s experience, but I think there’s certainly plenty of imaginable scenarios in which yes, she did agree to this contract, but certain aspects were handled improperly or in a way that made her feel very uncomfortable. This isn’t as cut and dry as the “you signed a contract, just do your job and be happy you’re getting paid at all” attitude that I’m seeing.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:45 pm

JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:First of all, that's not the only thing Franco has been accused of, and secondly, this whole "don't lump in X with X" is such a nonsense false equivalency to begin with. Who cares if he's looked at as being on a big pile of scumbags? Nothing is happening to these guys. Nothing. Cosby MIGHT live long enough to get a slap on the wrist. Wooooooooo. James Franco doesn't need to be protected by you or anyone else.

But what does it matter? Anything else has already just been declared to be "flaming" by "SJWs." How convenient.


What are his other accusations? Honest question.

I'm not protecting him, what Im trying to say is there are real victims out there and their stories are vetted and then reported when found to be accurate. These are twitter accusations and on the surface, don't appear to have been illegal. More stories getting picked up this way will hurt the movement and actual victims IMO.

The one woman tweeted in the past that she once faked a pregnancy just to get a guy to reply to her. I don't see people like this contributing positively to bringing about the change we need in this area, thats all.


This horsefeathers doesn't need to be illegal for it to be wrong. And "real victims?" The hell?

I can't wait until we vet and confirm the accuracy of the real victims of burglary, as opposed to all of the fake ones that hurt the anti-burglary movement, too.

Here, read about Franco's "fake victims" here:

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/59w ... harassment

http://www.eonline.com/news/528026/jame ... out-it-now
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:47 pm

And again, it's nuts that we think "woman signed a contract and that means she should be forever naked on all forms of media forever if asked/expected/demanded" is a NORMAL THING, and literally no dude has to do the same thing.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:51 pm

If only someone would think of the incredibly rich celebrity white males being besmirched!
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:56 pm

Banedon wrote:
Old Style wrote:
treebird wrote:
yeah, franco has a lousy reputation and these accusations are a lot more significant than the posters above are acknowledging.

I'm not trying to defend Franco or any sexual predator by any means. It was just that one ridiculous claim that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.


Maybe focusing on that one claim is the wrong angle to take.

Just because that was my first post on this thread doesn't mean I am only focusing on that one claim. I fully support anyone who was actually a victim.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:59 pm

Bobson Dugnutt wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Bobson Dugnutt wrote:
I think your takeaway from the Chapman situation should be applied more broadly. Maybe wait to make posts discrediting accusers or mocking the reaction of the general public until you do have more context.

And, I think an important lesson from this daily onslaught of revelations is that these women and their stories should be listened to. They shouldn’t be mocked, shouted down, and silenced.


Ehh, I dont know. I was wrong on Chapman and I admitted it. I have no problem doing that. I guess im hung up on accepting that 'someone signed a contract for a job that they performed twice but later regrets it' is a victim of abuse somehow, but I'd love to learn more


I have no interest in adding conjecture to this woman’s experience, but I think there’s certainly plenty of imaginable scenarios in which yes, she did agree to this contract, but certain aspects were handled improperly or in a way that made her feel very uncomfortable. This isn’t as cut and dry as the “you signed a contract, just do your job and be happy you’re getting paid at all” attitude that I’m seeing.

Well she did have the option of not doing the nude scene she agreed to. I know she would have forfeited all $100 of her earnings (or should I say $200 since it was 2 scenes) but she didn't HAVE to do anything she wasn't comfortable with.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby JennieGarthAlgar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:05 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:First of all, that's not the only thing Franco has been accused of, and secondly, this whole "don't lump in X with X" is such a nonsense false equivalency to begin with. Who cares if he's looked at as being on a big pile of scumbags? Nothing is happening to these guys. Nothing. Cosby MIGHT live long enough to get a slap on the wrist. Wooooooooo. James Franco doesn't need to be protected by you or anyone else.

But what does it matter? Anything else has already just been declared to be "flaming" by "SJWs." How convenient.


What are his other accusations? Honest question.

I'm not protecting him, what Im trying to say is there are real victims out there and their stories are vetted and then reported when found to be accurate. These are twitter accusations and on the surface, don't appear to have been illegal. More stories getting picked up this way will hurt the movement and actual victims IMO.

The one woman tweeted in the past that she once faked a pregnancy just to get a guy to reply to her. I don't see people like this contributing positively to bringing about the change we need in this area, thats all.


This horsefeathers doesn't need to be illegal for it to be wrong. And "real victims?" The hell?

I can't wait until we vet and confirm the accuracy of the real victims of burglary, as opposed to all of the fake ones that hurt the anti-burglary movement, too.

Here, read about Franco's "fake victims" here:

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/59w ... harassment

http://www.eonline.com/news/528026/jame ... out-it-now


I believe women, but this is the first time in the #MeToo movement that I feel unsure that this woman was harmed in some way. So no, I dont think she is a victim of James Franco in this case. Victim of a sexist industry that doesnt properly compensate women, sure.

This horsefeathers doesn't need to be illegal for it to be wrong.


Is this a Jeff Sessions quote?
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:09 pm

JennieGarthAlgar wrote:


I believe women, but this is the first time in the #MeToo movement that I feel unsure that this woman was harmed in some way. So no, I dont think she is a victim of James Franco in this case. Victim of a sexist industry that doesnt properly compensate women, sure.


Did you click the links? This isn't about one woman.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:17 pm

Banedon wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:


I believe women, but this is the first time in the #MeToo movement that I feel unsure that this woman was harmed in some way. So no, I dont think she is a victim of James Franco in this case. Victim of a sexist industry that doesnt properly compensate women, sure.


Did you click the links? This isn't about one woman.

It's clear that Franco is a creep but that doesn't necessarily make him a criminal.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:17 pm

Old Style wrote:
Bobson Dugnutt wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Ehh, I dont know. I was wrong on Chapman and I admitted it. I have no problem doing that. I guess im hung up on accepting that 'someone signed a contract for a job that they performed twice but later regrets it' is a victim of abuse somehow, but I'd love to learn more


I have no interest in adding conjecture to this woman’s experience, but I think there’s certainly plenty of imaginable scenarios in which yes, she did agree to this contract, but certain aspects were handled improperly or in a way that made her feel very uncomfortable. This isn’t as cut and dry as the “you signed a contract, just do your job and be happy you’re getting paid at all” attitude that I’m seeing.

Well she did have the option of not doing the nude scene she agreed to. I know she would have forfeited all $100 of her earnings (or should I say $200 since it was 2 scenes) but she didn't HAVE to do anything she wasn't comfortable with.


when the choices are not to work in the field you aspire to work in or to expose your entire body to the public for an insulting sum of money, there's a pretty big problem.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby JennieGarthAlgar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:17 pm

Banedon wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:


I believe women, but this is the first time in the #MeToo movement that I feel unsure that this woman was harmed in some way. So no, I dont think she is a victim of James Franco in this case. Victim of a sexist industry that doesnt properly compensate women, sure.


Did you click the links? This isn't about one woman.


But I am talking about the one woman and how her claim getting picked up by media and sorted in to the entire list of abuses hurts the more legitimate ones, thats all.

Christ, I got ripped on in a different thread when I said I wanted Addison Russell traded because I think hes a piece of horsefeathers abuser and most were like "whaaaaa, but hes a 4 WAR player with excellent defense and we'll never recoup value!" I believe women. I believe women. I just don't believe this particular woman was a victim of one particular person.
Last edited by JennieGarthAlgar on Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:19 pm

Old Style wrote:
Banedon wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
I believe women, but this is the first time in the #MeToo movement that I feel unsure that this woman was harmed in some way. So no, I dont think she is a victim of James Franco in this case. Victim of a sexist industry that doesnt properly compensate women, sure.


Did you click the links? This isn't about one woman.

It's clear that Franco is a creep but that doesn't necessarily make him a criminal.


Did you click the links?!?!?

Another woman, actress Violet Paley, tweeted that Franco had tried to force her head on his exposed penis, and accused Franco of similar “and worse” abuses towards other women.


Guess what...that's a crime.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:20 pm

JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
What are his other accusations? Honest question.

I'm not protecting him, what Im trying to say is there are real victims out there and their stories are vetted and then reported when found to be accurate. These are twitter accusations and on the surface, don't appear to have been illegal. More stories getting picked up this way will hurt the movement and actual victims IMO.

The one woman tweeted in the past that she once faked a pregnancy just to get a guy to reply to her. I don't see people like this contributing positively to bringing about the change we need in this area, thats all.


This horsefeathers doesn't need to be illegal for it to be wrong. And "real victims?" The hell?

I can't wait until we vet and confirm the accuracy of the real victims of burglary, as opposed to all of the fake ones that hurt the anti-burglary movement, too.

Here, read about Franco's "fake victims" here:

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/59w ... harassment

http://www.eonline.com/news/528026/jame ... out-it-now


I believe women, but this is the first time in the #MeToo movement that I feel unsure that this woman was harmed in some way. So no, I dont think she is a victim of James Franco in this case. Victim of a sexist industry that doesnt properly compensate women, sure.

This horsefeathers doesn't need to be illegal for it to be wrong.


Is this a Jeff Sessions quote?


Like Banedon said, this isn't "just one woman." It's never "just one woman."

And as for the second part...welp, congratulations on just dismissing sexual harassment as a problem since it's not actually a crime. But hey, thank GOD, we didn't lump poor James Franco in with Louis CK, who we didn't lump in with Polanski, who we didn't lump in with Cosby, etc., etc., etc.. Gotta keep our eyes on the prize here and make sure all the real victims are vetted and the dudes are fairly categorized.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby 17 Seconds » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:20 pm

also lots of awful things aren't crimes
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:24 pm

JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Banedon wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
I believe women, but this is the first time in the #MeToo movement that I feel unsure that this woman was harmed in some way. So no, I dont think she is a victim of James Franco in this case. Victim of a sexist industry that doesnt properly compensate women, sure.


Did you click the links? This isn't about one woman.


But I am talking about the one woman and how her claim getting picked up by media and sorted in to the entire list of abuses hurts the more legitimate ones, thats all.

Christ, I got ripped on in a different thread when I said I wanted Addison Russell traded because I think hes a piece of horsefeathers abuser and most were like "whaaaaa, but hes a 4 WAR player with excellent defense and we'll never recoup value!" I believe women. I believe women. I just don't believe this particular woman was a victim of one particular person.


i think picking out the one woman you don't believe and going out of your way to post about it on the internet is more problematic than a woman discussing a personal experience that made her uncomfortable.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:30 pm

Old Style wrote:
Banedon wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
I believe women, but this is the first time in the #MeToo movement that I feel unsure that this woman was harmed in some way. So no, I dont think she is a victim of James Franco in this case. Victim of a sexist industry that doesnt properly compensate women, sure.


Did you click the links? This isn't about one woman.

It's clear that Franco is a creep but that doesn't necessarily make him a criminal.


The line isn't, "is this illegal or not?"
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:35 pm

Bobson Dugnutt wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Did you click the links? This isn't about one woman.


But I am talking about the one woman and how her claim getting picked up by media and sorted in to the entire list of abuses hurts the more legitimate ones, thats all.

Christ, I got ripped on in a different thread when I said I wanted Addison Russell traded because I think hes a piece of horsefeathers abuser and most were like "whaaaaa, but hes a 4 WAR player with excellent defense and we'll never recoup value!" I believe women. I believe women. I just don't believe this particular woman was a victim of one particular person.


i think picking out the one woman you don't believe and going out of your way to post about it on the internet is more problematic than a woman discussing a personal experience that made her uncomfortable.


And just the weird standards with these sorts of things. Going back to the burglary thing...if someone posted something about how something of theirs was stolen, would we look into their past to see if they had ever talked about stealing something themselves? Or if they did something else that we would decide could cast doubt on them claiming something was stolen from them?

Yet with these types of stories, if a woman has any kind of relationship that ended poorly, or if she's said anything horsefeathers or done anything horsefeathers in her past, then it somehow makes her current claim suspect. Why? Why would it make sense to zero in on one woman in this instance when there are multiple women who have shown or claimed that he's crossed the line?
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:37 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:if someone posted something about how something of theirs was stolen, would we look into their past to see if they had ever talked about stealing something themselves? Or if they did something else that we would decide could cast doubt on them claiming something was stolen from them?


Well...that depends on race. But that's a whole other topic.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:39 pm

JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Banedon wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
I believe women, but this is the first time in the #MeToo movement that I feel unsure that this woman was harmed in some way. So no, I dont think she is a victim of James Franco in this case. Victim of a sexist industry that doesnt properly compensate women, sure.


Did you click the links? This isn't about one woman.


But I am talking about the one woman and how her claim getting picked up by media and sorted in to the entire list of abuses hurts the more legitimate ones, thats all.

Christ, I got ripped on in a different thread when I said I wanted Addison Russell traded because I think hes a piece of horsefeathers abuser and most were like "whaaaaa, but hes a 4 WAR player with excellent defense and we'll never recoup value!" I believe women. I believe women. I just don't believe this particular woman was a victim of one particular person.


for the record i'm on board with the Russell stuff. i'm pretty uncomfortable with that whole situation as well.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:41 pm

Banedon wrote:
Old Style wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Did you click the links? This isn't about one woman.

It's clear that Franco is a creep but that doesn't necessarily make him a criminal.


Did you click the links?!?!?

Another woman, actress Violet Paley, tweeted that Franco had tried to force her head on his exposed penis, and accused Franco of similar “and worse” abuses towards other women.


Guess what...that's a crime.

You mean the same person that once tweeted the below statements?
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:42 pm

Yep, still a crime to sexually assault a horsefeathers person.
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