#MeToo

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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:45 pm

I mean, if we're considering her previous history, don't we have to consider his as well?
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:47 pm

Banedon wrote:Yep, still a crime to sexually assault a horsefeathers person.

Absolutely and I want to believe any woman who is brave enough to come forward but when you post stuff like that it makes me question the authenticity.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:49 pm

Old Style wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Old Style wrote:It's clear that Franco is a creep but that doesn't necessarily make him a criminal.


Did you click the links?!?!?

Another woman, actress Violet Paley, tweeted that Franco had tried to force her head on his exposed penis, and accused Franco of similar “and worse” abuses towards other women.


Guess what...that's a crime.

You mean the same person that once tweeted the below statements?
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Right! And she's also clearly insane! Check this one out... she believes her cat is a monster from a fictional television show!



Or... and just hear me out... she sometimes makes tweets that are meant to be humorous* and not taken seriously.

*Please note that I am not saying that her tweets are funny.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:49 pm

Banedon wrote:I mean, if we're considering her previous history, don't we have to consider his as well?

Yes, without a doubt but from what I’ve read (admittedly it probably isn’t everything) he is someone I wouldn’t want around any female I know but again that doesn’t necessarily mean he is a criminal.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:51 pm

Like, I get that there's actually an explainable aspect of blaming the victim; it's something that our brains almost WANTS to do in certain situations. But I just don't understand how much some people are willing to embrace that part of their brain. Like, there's zero context that what she accused Franco of doing could be OK, nevermind that he has multiple people who have accused or shown what he's done, yet for some reason two tweets of hers completely divorced from any kind of context somehow throws serious doubt on accusations against a guy who has multiple accusations against him? Huh? And she gets what out of this, exactly? Oh, right....she gets attention, because surely that's all she wants because, remember, women be CRAZY like that, right? It's weird how there's almost something at every level to explain away something a woman does or says to ensure a man gets out of it OK. Or, hey, it's totally normal, like contracts that expect women to be naked for literally the entire world forever.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:51 pm

Old Style wrote:
Banedon wrote:I mean, if we're considering her previous history, don't we have to consider his as well?

Yes, without a doubt but from what I’ve read (admittedly it probably isn’t everything) he is someone I wouldn’t want around any female I know but again that doesn’t necessarily mean he is a criminal.


Just like her tweets doesn't necessarily mean she's lying! That's the point....you're willing to dismiss his previous history, but not hers.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:52 pm

Old Style wrote:
Banedon wrote:I mean, if we're considering her previous history, don't we have to consider his as well?

Yes, without a doubt but from what I’ve read (admittedly it probably isn’t everything) he is someone I wouldn’t want around any female I know but again that doesn’t necessarily mean he is a criminal.


Yet again, he doesn't have to be a criminal to be in the wrong. Sexual harassment typically isn't illegal.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:54 pm

I’m not dismissing anything. Anyone who is guilty should deal with the consequences of their actions. The thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the accused are automatically considered guilty and that seems wrong to me. Uncover all the facts before someone is convicted.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:56 pm

Basically this is an odd area where you have tons of people who are resistant to getting on board minus the presence of some kind of "perfect victim." You won't find that expectation otherwise with almost any other accusation of crime or wrongdoing or misconduct.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:57 pm

Old Style wrote:I’m not dismissing anything. Anyone who is guilty should deal with the consequences of their actions. The thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the accused are automatically considered guilty and that seems wrong to me. Uncover all the facts before someone is convicted.


The thing that is disconcerting is that accusations are automatically diminished because of previous tweets and that seems wrong to me.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:58 pm

Old Style wrote:I’m not dismissing anything. Anyone who is guilty should deal with the consequences of their actions. The thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the accused are automatically considered guilty and that seems wrong to me. Uncover all the facts before someone is convicted.


...

"Innocent until proven guilty" applies to our justice system. The court of public opinion is under no such expectation.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:59 pm

Banedon wrote:
Old Style wrote:I’m not dismissing anything. Anyone who is guilty should deal with the consequences of their actions. The thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the accused are automatically considered guilty and that seems wrong to me. Uncover all the facts before someone is convicted.


The thing that is disconcerting is that accusations are automatically diminished because of previous tweets and that seems wrong to me.

You’re assuming that because I am not calling for Franco’s head that I am dismissing her claims which isn’t accurate.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:00 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Old Style wrote:I’m not dismissing anything. Anyone who is guilty should deal with the consequences of their actions. The thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the accused are automatically considered guilty and that seems wrong to me. Uncover all the facts before someone is convicted.


...

"Innocent until proven guilty" applies to our justice system. The court of public opinion is under no such expectation.


and this approach seems to always favor the accused and discredit the accusers.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:00 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Old Style wrote:I’m not dismissing anything. Anyone who is guilty should deal with the consequences of their actions. The thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the accused are automatically considered guilty and that seems wrong to me. Uncover all the facts before someone is convicted.


...

"Innocent until proven guilty" applies to our justice system. The court of public opinion is under no such expectation.

Have you ever been falsely accused of anything in your life that may jeopardize your entire career?
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:02 pm

Old Style wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Old Style wrote:I’m not dismissing anything. Anyone who is guilty should deal with the consequences of their actions. The thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the accused are automatically considered guilty and that seems wrong to me. Uncover all the facts before someone is convicted.


The thing that is disconcerting is that accusations are automatically diminished because of previous tweets and that seems wrong to me.

You’re assuming that because I am not calling for Franco’s head that I am dismissing her claims which isn’t accurate.


Dunno how I could have gotten that idea from this post....

Old Style wrote:You mean the same person that once tweeted the below statements?
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:03 pm

Old Style wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Old Style wrote:I’m not dismissing anything. Anyone who is guilty should deal with the consequences of their actions. The thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the accused are automatically considered guilty and that seems wrong to me. Uncover all the facts before someone is convicted.


...

"Innocent until proven guilty" applies to our justice system. The court of public opinion is under no such expectation.

Have you ever been falsely accused of anything in your life that may jeopardize your entire career?


No, and neither has James Franco.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:04 pm

Sorry if I’m not 100% convinced that she is telling the truth based off some questionable things she’s tweeted in the past. She probably is telling the truth but let’s get a little more info before making up our minds, K?
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Re: #MeToo

Postby bukie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:04 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Old Style wrote:I’m not dismissing anything. Anyone who is guilty should deal with the consequences of their actions. The thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the accused are automatically considered guilty and that seems wrong to me. Uncover all the facts before someone is convicted.


...

"Innocent until proven guilty" applies to our justice system. The court of public opinion is under no such expectation.

Innocent until proven guilty only applies to the accused, apparently.

Quick shout out to Old Style and JGA for showing people can be gross in all situations, even this thread.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:05 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Old Style wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
...

"Innocent until proven guilty" applies to our justice system. The court of public opinion is under no such expectation.

Have you ever been falsely accused of anything in your life that may jeopardize your entire career?


No, and neither has James Franco.

Well if you’re not going to be rational then there’s no reason to continue discussing this with you.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:06 pm

i just want to know if you believe she really thinks her cat is a demogorgon.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:07 pm

Old Style wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Old Style wrote:Have you ever been falsely accused of anything in your life that may jeopardize your entire career?


No, and neither has James Franco.

Well if you’re not going to be rational then there’s no reason to continue discussing this with you.


Wait, is the irrational part that I've never been accused of sexual assault or harassment, or the idea of James Franco: guy who has been accused by multiple women of assault or harassment is likely guilty of having assaulted or harassed multiple women?
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:07 pm

Old Style wrote:Sorry if I’m not 100% convinced that she is telling the truth based off some questionable things she’s tweeted in the past. She probably is telling the truth but let’s get a little more info before making up our minds, K?


That's not how "I believe women" works. I believe her and the multiple other women that have accused him.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:08 pm

Old Style wrote:Sorry if I’m not 100% convinced that she is telling the truth based off some questionable things she’s tweeted in the past. She probably is telling the truth but let’s get a little more info before making up our minds, K?


Why does it matter if some people now think James Franco is a scumbag? Nothing will actually happen to him.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:09 pm

There's really only a handful of male celebrities that I actually think are good, decent people at this point. James Franco was never among them.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby cl smooth » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:11 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Basically this is an odd area where you have tons of people who are resistant to getting on board minus the presence of some kind of "perfect victim." You won't find that expectation otherwise with almost any other accusation of crime or wrongdoing or misconduct.


this.

"how do you know she's telling the truth?!"
"what about all the other women who did these things in order to have a career? why don't we hear their stories?!"

it's fair to say that all of us have some male friends/family members/colleagues/etc. who think this way and it's appalling.
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