#MeToo

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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:15 pm

It should be obvious at this point that serial abusers of this specific ilk tend to be people in positions of power, so people bemoaning how the accused could "have their careers ruined" just seems so very hollow. Like, nothing is going to actually happen to James Franco. Even if nobody ever hired him to act or direct again, he'd just go off and be millionaire famous guy James Franco. Tommy the cable installer isn't having his life destroyed because he systematically used his fame and wealth and power to try and coerce and pressure (and worse) women into doing what he wanted over and over and over again.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:19 pm

Yeah he'll just be in a bunch of stoner movies for a while, with audiences that just don't care about the accusations, and then once everybody's moved on, he'll go be in "real" movies again.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:22 pm

Like, I LOVE The Deuce, and Franco is surprisingly good in it, but I'm not going to blink if they up and recast him with someone else. That's part of the problem with people like this doing these things; people are so resistant to the idea of them doing something awful because they're actors or filmmakers. It's an industry all about public persona and how we're SUPPOSED to like them, so it's even more of an uphill battle to accept when they've done some awful horsefeathers, so there's almost this primal need to want them to have not done it to the point that we're weirdly worried or protective of them, and we shouldn't be. Nobody made them do what they did. They're nothing special. They're just dudes who are famous, and that shouldn't protect them.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby bcl412 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:27 pm

I think some people think that if they like a piece of horsefeathers’s work than they are a piece of horsefeathers too which also creates a level of defensiveness as well. I think years of watching sports and realizing most athletes suck as people prepared me for this whole thing.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby cl smooth » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:08 pm

JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:First of all, that's not the only thing Franco has been accused of, and secondly, this whole "don't lump in X with X" is such a nonsense false equivalency to begin with. Who cares if he's looked at as being on a big pile of scumbags? Nothing is happening to these guys. Nothing. Cosby MIGHT live long enough to get a slap on the wrist. Wooooooooo. James Franco doesn't need to be protected by you or anyone else.

But what does it matter? Anything else has already just been declared to be "flaming" by "SJWs." How convenient.


What are his other accusations? Honest question.

I'm not protecting him, what Im trying to say is there are real victims out there and their stories are vetted and then reported when found to be accurate. These are twitter accusations and on the surface, don't appear to have been illegal. More stories getting picked up this way will hurt the movement and actual victims IMO.

The one woman tweeted in the past that she once faked a pregnancy just to get a guy to reply to her. I don't see people like this contributing positively to bringing about the change we need in this area, thats all.


ye ask and ye shall receive:

Five women accuse actor James Franco of inappropriate or sexually exploitative behavior
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Re: #MeToo

Postby cl smooth » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:10 pm

(one can only hope) we're probably a week or so away from franco being replaced on the deuce with jake gyllenhaal or oscar isaac.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:19 pm

thanks for the reminder that I haven't watched Inside Llewyn Davis this year
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Re: #MeToo

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:19 pm

Old Style wrote:I’m not dismissing anything. Anyone who is guilty should deal with the consequences of their actions. The thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the accused are automatically considered guilty and that seems wrong to me. Uncover all the facts before someone is convicted.

This is so wrong.

It's not a criminal proceeding. we have no obligation to hear him out.

This is the whole goddamned point of the story here, that men use and abuse and get away with it because it's nearly impossible to convict, and neanderthals take a "if ain't a crime do what you will" approach.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:30 pm

What the hell...

A collective of 100 French women including film star Catherine Deneuve have signed an open letter defending men's "freedom to pester" women, sparking an angry response from a group of feminist activists.

The open letter, which criticized the #MeToo movement and warned about a new "puritanism" sparked by recent sexual harassment allegations, was published Tuesday in French newspaper Le Monde.


http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/10/europe/ca ... index.html
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Re: #MeToo

Postby cl smooth » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:38 pm

ah, the french...

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Re: #MeToo

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:42 pm

Banedon wrote:What the hell...

A collective of 100 French women including film star Catherine Deneuve have signed an open letter defending men's "freedom to pester" women, sparking an angry response from a group of feminist activists.

The open letter, which criticized the #MeToo movement and warned about a new "puritanism" sparked by recent sexual harassment allegations, was published Tuesday in French newspaper Le Monde.


http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/10/europe/ca ... index.html
half the French economy is based on extramarital affairs and making art related to extramarital affairs.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:45 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Old Style wrote:I’m not dismissing anything. Anyone who is guilty should deal with the consequences of their actions. The thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the accused are automatically considered guilty and that seems wrong to me. Uncover all the facts before someone is convicted.

This is so wrong.

It's not a criminal proceeding. we have no obligation to hear him out.

This is the whole goddamned point of the story here, that men use and abuse and get away with it because it's nearly impossible to convict, and neanderthals take a "if ain't a crime do what you will" approach.

When I used the word "convict" I wasn't referring to an actual criminal proceeding. It just seems crazy that the accused (whether it be a man or woman) isn't given any chance here. Anyone with a vendetta can just claim sexual harassment at this point whether or not it is even true. I imagine that it is probably pretty rare but it is still a very real possibility. And I probably should just stop posting on this thread because no matter what I say now I'm going to be painted as the guy that stands up for abusers when that isn't even remotely true.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:46 pm

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"I'm sorry, folks outside of SEC country, but a few facts are incontrovertible. They smoke better barbecue than you. Their women are prettier than your women. They play football better than your schools play football." - Andy Staples, SI

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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:48 pm

Old Style wrote:Posted without comment

Publicly, We Say #MeToo. Privately, We Have Misgivings.


In private it’s a different story. “Grow up, this is real life,” I hear these same feminist friends say. “What ever happened to flirting?” and “What about the women who are the predators?” Some women, including random people I talk to in supermarket lines, have gone so far as to call it an outright witch hunt.


Those aren't feminists.

Consider the fact that the campaign last month against the Met to remove a Balthus painting that shows a young girl in a suggestive light was organized by two young Manhattan feminists. Fortunately, they were unsuccessful. This is the kind of censorship practiced by religious zealots.


That is unrelated to #MeToo.

That is a very bad article.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:52 pm

Old Style wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Old Style wrote:I’m not dismissing anything. Anyone who is guilty should deal with the consequences of their actions. The thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the accused are automatically considered guilty and that seems wrong to me. Uncover all the facts before someone is convicted.

This is so wrong.

It's not a criminal proceeding. we have no obligation to hear him out.

This is the whole goddamned point of the story here, that men use and abuse and get away with it because it's nearly impossible to convict, and neanderthals take a "if ain't a crime do what you will" approach.

When I used the word "convict" I wasn't referring to an actual criminal proceeding. It just seems crazy that the accused (whether it be a man or woman) isn't given any chance here. Anyone with a vendetta can just claim sexual harassment at this point whether or not it is even true. I imagine that it is probably pretty rare but it is still a very real possibility. And I probably should just stop posting on this thread because no matter what I say now I'm going to be painted as the guy that stands up for abusers when that isn't even remotely true.

ISNT GIVEN A CHANCE.

How dumb. The myth of the vendetta accusation has a long and damaging history. We all whispered about the dangers of some crazy chick having it out for you. It's not hard to avoid this myth happening to you. Don't treat people like trash and you won't have everybody believing the first bad thing somebody says about you.

Stop playing the pity police defending obvious scum.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:53 pm

Old Style wrote:Posted without comment

Publicly, We Say #MeToo. Privately, We Have Misgivings.

It's a good thing you didn't comment because that's pathetic and stupid.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:08 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Old Style wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:This is so wrong.

It's not a criminal proceeding. we have no obligation to hear him out.

This is the whole goddamned point of the story here, that men use and abuse and get away with it because it's nearly impossible to convict, and neanderthals take a "if ain't a crime do what you will" approach.

When I used the word "convict" I wasn't referring to an actual criminal proceeding. It just seems crazy that the accused (whether it be a man or woman) isn't given any chance here. Anyone with a vendetta can just claim sexual harassment at this point whether or not it is even true. I imagine that it is probably pretty rare but it is still a very real possibility. And I probably should just stop posting on this thread because no matter what I say now I'm going to be painted as the guy that stands up for abusers when that isn't even remotely true.

ISNT GIVEN A CHANCE.

How dumb. The myth of the vendetta accusation has a long and damaging history. We all whispered about the dangers of some crazy chick having it out for you. It's not hard to avoid this myth happening to you. Don't treat people like trash and you won't have everybody believing the first bad thing somebody says about you.

Stop playing the pity police defending obvious scum.

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Re: #MeToo

Postby Brian707 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:14 pm

Ah! Whataboutism!
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Re: #MeToo

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:30 pm

One woman making an unsubstantiated accusation against many men isn't quite the same as many women making accusations against one man.

But you know that and don't care.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:32 pm

yeah the Duke lacrosse case is kind of the exception that proves the rule here, to me. we're still pointing to one case 12 years ago as evidence that vindictive or attention-seeking women trying to ruin men's lives is some sort of common thing.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:36 pm

Bobson Dugnutt wrote:yeah the Duke lacrosse case is kind of the exception that proves the rule here, to me. we're still pointing to one case 12 years ago as evidence that vindictive or attention-seeking women trying to ruin men's lives is some sort of common thing.

Read my post again. I literally said that it is probably pretty rare. And I went to that story because it was so high profile and I was refuting the statement that the vendetta accusations are a myth. I would imagine there are other more current examples that a Google search would turn up but this was an easy one.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby entbird79 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:38 pm

Old Style wrote:And I probably should just stop posting on this thread
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:40 pm

Old Style wrote:
Bobson Dugnutt wrote:yeah the Duke lacrosse case is kind of the exception that proves the rule here, to me. we're still pointing to one case 12 years ago as evidence that vindictive or attention-seeking women trying to ruin men's lives is some sort of common thing.

Read my post again. I literally said that it is probably pretty rare. And I went to that story because it was so high profile and I was refuting the statement that the vendetta accusations are a myth. I would imagine there are other more current examples that a Google search would turn up but this was an easy one.


yes, the only one you could come up with was from over a decade ago. so "pretty rare" is a gigantic understatement.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:43 pm

Bobson Dugnutt wrote:
Old Style wrote:
Bobson Dugnutt wrote:yeah the Duke lacrosse case is kind of the exception that proves the rule here, to me. we're still pointing to one case 12 years ago as evidence that vindictive or attention-seeking women trying to ruin men's lives is some sort of common thing.

Read my post again. I literally said that it is probably pretty rare. And I went to that story because it was so high profile and I was refuting the statement that the vendetta accusations are a myth. I would imagine there are other more current examples that a Google search would turn up but this was an easy one.


yes, the only one you could come up with was from over a decade ago. so "pretty rare" is a gigantic understatement.

A 2-second Google search gave me this from August 25, 2017.

Woman heading to prison after falsely accusing 15 men of rape

And this story also from August of last year.

Conor Oberst Opens Up On Effects Of False Rape Accusation: 'I Equate It to Getting In a Car Crash'
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:46 pm

Again, false reporting of sexual crimes shows little variance statistically from other crimes, so if one is truly worried that this is some kind of common or widespread problem with sexual crimes, then presumably they're terrified that it's happening with everything else, too. Fortunately, it's not. Things like the Duke lacrosse case and the UVA Rolling Stone story are unfortunate extreme outliers, and anyone trying to act like that's anything even close to resembling some kind of a norm or likely scenario is either just tremendously uninformed or willfully trying to resist believing these types of accusations.

A good concise breakdown of this:

https://qz.com/980766/the-truth-about-f ... cusations/
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