#MeToo

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Re: #MeToo

Postby Banedon » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:14 pm

For all the praise it's gonna get, I don't think there will be many copycats. It'd require people admitting, in detail, what they did...and I think no matter what, that's going to be exceedingly rare. And even if they do, they still aren't 100% in the clear. Louis CK admitted what he did and still horsefeathers up the apology.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:29 pm

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Re: #MeToo

Postby javy knows my name » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:33 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:Internalized misogyny/racism/homophobia is so horsefeathering tough to root out. I've had to come to grips w/ the fact that all those things, and more, were ingrained in me while growing up; through my family, friends, church, etc. My post-high school life has been replete with me doing my best to acknowledge this & actively try to make myself the person I want to be. I'm not even close to there yet.


Yep yep yep. To that end, the part of the apology that was the most impactful for me was, paraphrasing, "I'd never done something like this before, and I'll never do it again, but I couldn't have done it if I had any respect for women." FAAAAAACK. Word, and also, ouch.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Proven Veteran » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:24 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:

Amazing.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby The Logan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:56 pm

Banedon wrote:For all the praise it's gonna get, I don't think there will be many copycats. It'd require people admitting, in detail, what they did...and I think no matter what, that's going to be exceedingly rare. And even if they do, they still aren't 100% in the clear. Louis CK admitted what he did and still horsefeathers up the apology.


Well, IMO I think the reason you won't see many apologies like Harmon's is that he was verbally and emotionally abusive which, as he points out, isn't technically a crime, while these other people in hot water, in many cases, raped people and they can potentially go to jail or get sued for everything they have for admitting culpability. The only way these other scumbags like Spacey or Cosby come out with apologies like this is if they are guaranteed they won't suffer dire legal consequences, which I don't think is going to happen.

That doesn't belittle what Harmon did to Ganz, or his apology to her, it was the right apology for reasons you've all stated and what he did was inexcusable and his admittance to that was a breath of fresh air in a sea of tone-deaf apologies that seemed more like they were drafted up by a legal team and not from the person themselves. But I don't think people are going to start admitting their faults if their faults are of the illegal variety, specifically.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:00 pm

The vast, VAST majority of these things have been and are going to be of the Harmon-CK-Franco ilk as opposed to Weinstein or Cosby.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:47 am

Proven Veteran wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:

Amazing.


Holy horsefeathers. That link was blocked for me at work, so I'm just getting to it now. What a read.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Old Style » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:31 pm

This is heartbreaking. I’ll never be able to watch True Lies the same way again, if at all.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/01/eliza-dushku-joel-kramer-sexual-assault-allegations/amp
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:36 pm

I never thought I’d cringe by seeing a thread bumped outside of the gun thread. this one is right there with it
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Re: #MeToo

Postby 17 Seconds » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:25 am

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:I never thought I’d cringe by seeing a thread bumped outside of the gun thread. this one is right there with it


seeing derwood bump the Bathroom Nightmares thread is pretty scary
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Re: #MeToo

Postby 17 Seconds » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:03 am

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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:45 pm

That's really creepy.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby mike2482 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:16 pm

17 Seconds wrote:https://twitter.com/k80way/status/952327321431756801?s=17


I’m not really on board with this one. Performing and receiving oral sex isn’t exactly the non-verbal cue that would lead me to believe she wasn’t into me. Then, when she told him that they were moving too fast, he called her a ride home.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby javy knows my name » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:33 pm

mike2482 wrote:
17 Seconds wrote:https://twitter.com/k80way/status/952327321431756801?s=17


I’m not really on board with this one. Performing and receiving oral sex isn’t exactly the non-verbal cue that would lead me to believe she wasn’t into me. Then, when she told him that they were moving too fast, he called her a ride home.


Lol that isn't what she said happened at all
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Re: #MeToo

Postby jersey cubs fan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:39 pm

mike2482 wrote:
17 Seconds wrote:https://twitter.com/k80way/status/952327321431756801?s=17


I’m not really on board with this one. Performing and receiving oral sex isn’t exactly the non-verbal cue that would lead me to believe she wasn’t into me. Then, when she told him that they were moving too fast, he called her a ride home.
did we read different things?
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Re: #MeToo

Postby mike2482 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:11 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
mike2482 wrote:
17 Seconds wrote:https://twitter.com/k80way/status/952327321431756801?s=17


I’m not really on board with this one. Performing and receiving oral sex isn’t exactly the non-verbal cue that would lead me to believe she wasn’t into me. Then, when she told him that they were moving too fast, he called her a ride home.
did we read different things?


Must have, and maybe I need to work on my reading comprehension, but I took that she was claiming assault because he wasn’t picking up on her non-verbal communication. Could someone please explain to me how I am misunderstanding?
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Re: #MeToo

Postby mike2482 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:15 pm

Ok, after a second read, it was a lot more than I initially picked up. Pardon my lack of comprehension.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby cl smooth » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:18 pm

She says Ansari began making a move on her that he repeated during their encounter. “The move he kept doing was taking his two fingers in a V-shape and putting them in my mouth, in my throat to wet his fingers, because the moment he’d stick his fingers in my throat he’d go straight for my vagina and try to finger me.” Grace called the move “the claw.”

Ansari also physically pulled her hand towards his penis multiple times throughout the night, from the time he first kissed her on the countertop onward. “He probably moved my hand to his dick five to seven times,” she said. “He really kept doing it after I moved it away.”


those two paragraphs alone are cringe-worthy.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:22 pm

Old Style wrote:This is heartbreaking. I’ll never be able to watch True Lies the same way again, if at all.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/01/eliza-dushku-joel-kramer-sexual-assault-allegations/amp



If you are a parent and want to know what to look for with regards to a potential threat to your child’s life, read her story. The baiting, the special treatments, etc. this rings very close to home for me.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby mike2482 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:24 pm

cl smooth wrote:
She says Ansari began making a move on her that he repeated during their encounter. “The move he kept doing was taking his two fingers in a V-shape and putting them in my mouth, in my throat to wet his fingers, because the moment he’d stick his fingers in my throat he’d go straight for my vagina and try to finger me.” Grace called the move “the claw.”



Ansari also physically pulled her hand towards his penis multiple times throughout the night, from the time he first kissed her on the countertop onward. “He probably moved my hand to his dick five to seven times,” she said. “He really kept doing it after I moved it away.”


those two paragraphs alone are cringe-worthy.



Yeah, I’ve changed my opinion after readin it again. Kids running around, I must have been distracted when I read it this morning.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:34 pm

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Re: #MeToo

Postby SouthSideRyan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:45 pm

I don’t think fear of being murdered is too high on the list
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:12 am

Eh...this Margaret Atwood quote has made the rounds for a good 30 years now for a reason:

"Why do men feel threatened by women?" I asked a male friend of mine. So this male friend of mine, who does by the way exist, conveniently entered into the following dialogue. "I mean," I said, "men are bigger, most of the time, they can run faster, strangle better, and they have on the average a lot more money and power." "They're afraid women will laugh at them," he said. "Undercut their world view." Then I asked some women students in a quickie poetry seminar I was giving, "Why do women feel threatened by men?" "They're afraid of being killed," they said.


While that's leaping to the worst case scenario, it's hard for us to process how often women just have to accept the uncertainty of how quickly things can escalate to some kind of violence or threat from men (especially those they're not that familiar with) when it comes to sex.
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Re: #MeToo

Postby SpongeWorthy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:22 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:Eh...this Margaret Atwood quote has made the rounds for a good 30 years now for a reason:

"Why do men feel threatened by women?" I asked a male friend of mine. So this male friend of mine, who does by the way exist, conveniently entered into the following dialogue. "I mean," I said, "men are bigger, most of the time, they can run faster, strangle better, and they have on the average a lot more money and power." "They're afraid women will laugh at them," he said. "Undercut their world view." Then I asked some women students in a quickie poetry seminar I was giving, "Why do women feel threatened by men?" "They're afraid of being killed," they said.


While that's leaping to the worst case scenario, it's hard for us to process how often women just have to accept the uncertainty of how quickly things can escalate to some kind of violence or threat from men (especially those they're not that familiar with) when it comes to sex.


pretty sure a woman who is afraid of being killed if she refuses sex from a man doesn't go to said man's apartment after a first date
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Re: #MeToo

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:26 am

SpongeWorthy wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Eh...this Margaret Atwood quote has made the rounds for a good 30 years now for a reason:

"Why do men feel threatened by women?" I asked a male friend of mine. So this male friend of mine, who does by the way exist, conveniently entered into the following dialogue. "I mean," I said, "men are bigger, most of the time, they can run faster, strangle better, and they have on the average a lot more money and power." "They're afraid women will laugh at them," he said. "Undercut their world view." Then I asked some women students in a quickie poetry seminar I was giving, "Why do women feel threatened by men?" "They're afraid of being killed," they said.


While that's leaping to the worst case scenario, it's hard for us to process how often women just have to accept the uncertainty of how quickly things can escalate to some kind of violence or threat from men (especially those they're not that familiar with) when it comes to sex.


pretty sure a woman who is afraid of being killed if she refuses sex from a man doesn't go to said man's apartment after a first date


It's the fear that if a guy is willing to suddenly jump to being that aggressive sexually or that physically forward/imposing or that incessantly persistent, then what else is he willing to do to get his way, or if he gets too pissed off or embarrassed?

Again, getting killed is the worst case scenario; the overall point is the fear of violence (and not necessarily fatal, if that's really such a semantic sticking point) leads to many women not "putting up more of a fight" or not "definitively saying no" or the various other things other people toss out there when they start questioning what happened to someone.
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