Journalism Thread

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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:00 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:What's the magic level of big deal-ness where people are taking it seriously enough? Do people think there's no legal challenging/pushback happening? Do they think there's some switch that will flip with Republicans if enough headlines or tweets or FB posts complain and act horrified? What exactly do some of you think is not being done/should be done?

This whole, "only I'm too smart to realize it's a COOOOOOOOOOUP" thing is ridiculous.

the level of that guy in the elections board zoom all day, every day.


That didn't happen because he was mad; it happened because he did his horsefeathering job. It's seriously like people have convinced themselves that Republicans can just will themselves to victory, so I guess they think the opposition can do so by, I dunno, raging enough online or something.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:08 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:What's the magic level of big deal-ness where people are taking it seriously enough? Do people think there's no legal challenging/pushback happening? Do they think there's some switch that will flip with Republicans if enough headlines or tweets or FB posts complain and act horrified? What exactly do some of you think is not being done/should be done?

This whole, "only I'm too smart to realize it's a COOOOOOOOOOUP" thing is ridiculous.

the level of that guy in the elections board zoom all day, every day.


That didn't happen because he was mad; it happened because he did his horsefeathering job. It's seriously like people have convinced themselves that Republicans can just will themselves to victory, so I guess they think the opposition can do so by, I dunno, raging enough online or something.

what?
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:26 pm

There's just nothing at all to the "PEOPLE AREN'T HORRIFIED ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!" takes.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby CubinNY » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:05 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:There's just nothing at all to the "PEOPLE AREN'T HORRIFIED ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!" takes.

The right people aren't horrified enough to do anything. It's not nothing. It is something.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:18 pm

I think things can be two things. The media's instinct for neutrality, like with so many things in this administration, is underselling the degree that this isn't business as usual, and is in extremely bad faith/damaging to our democracy. At the same time, changing the headline to 'Lindsay Graham's felony latest in garbage coup attempt' doesn't really change the trajectory of events and would have minimal impact on public perception.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:03 am

CubinNY wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:There's just nothing at all to the "PEOPLE AREN'T HORRIFIED ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!" takes.

The right people aren't horrified enough to do anything. It's not nothing. It is something.


You have no idea what "do anything/something" even should be.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:25 am

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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby CubinNY » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:53 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
CubinNY wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:There's just nothing at all to the "PEOPLE AREN'T HORRIFIED ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!" takes.

The right people aren't horrified enough to do anything. It's not nothing. It is something.


You have no idea what "do anything/something" even should be.

I do you dick head. The DNC and the Democrats need to start suing Trump. They need to get all the lawyers to start filing complaints with the Bar associations. The HOR needs to use inherent contempt and go after those in the Trump administration. They need to fight for this country instead of waiting to see what Trump is going to do next and react to it. Because these guys are not going to stop.

And one more thing, the cacoon of smug horsefeathers you keep yourself is wearing a bit thin.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby squally1313 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:43 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
CubinNY wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:There's just nothing at all to the "PEOPLE AREN'T HORRIFIED ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!" takes.

The right people aren't horrified enough to do anything. It's not nothing. It is something.


You have no idea what "do anything/something" even should be.


I have no doubt Joe Biden will be president on January 20th. The margin is too big, Trump's team is too dumb, and a host of other reasons. Having said that...

This erosion of norms, to use an admittedly weak phrase, is really disappointing/frustrating. I'll guess we'll never see an election called/conceded on election night again in our lifetimes. We'll have to play out this charade of lawsuits and ballot certifications and not even really concealed racism every four years (at least). Do you really put it past the current Republican party to try and decertify state election results in the near future? The platform of the party is that they have sufficiently taken over the justice system and therefore their path to victory is to turn it into a legal battle. It won't work this time, and it probably won't work next time, but it's still gross and infuriating.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:59 pm

CubinNY wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
CubinNY wrote:The right people aren't horrified enough to do anything. It's not nothing. It is something.


You have no idea what "do anything/something" even should be.

I do you dick head. The DNC and the Democrats need to start suing Trump. They need to get all the lawyers to start filing complaints with the Bar associations. The HOR needs to use inherent contempt and go after those in the Trump administration. They need to fight for this country instead of waiting to see what Trump is going to do next and react to it. Because these guys are not going to stop.

And one more thing, the cacoon of smug horsefeathers you keep yourself is wearing a bit thin.


Wait, do you seriously think there have been no legal challenges to what the Trump team has been taking to court?
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby CubinNY » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:01 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
CubinNY wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
You have no idea what "do anything/something" even should be.

I do you dick head. The DNC and the Democrats need to start suing Trump. They need to get all the lawyers to start filing complaints with the Bar associations. The HOR needs to use inherent contempt and go after those in the Trump administration. They need to fight for this country instead of waiting to see what Trump is going to do next and react to it. Because these guys are not going to stop.

And one more thing, the cacoon of smug horsefeathers you keep yourself is wearing a bit thin.


Wait, do you seriously think there have been no legal challenges to what the Trump team has been taking to court?

A defense is not a challenge it's a defense.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:13 pm

squally1313 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
CubinNY wrote:The right people aren't horrified enough to do anything. It's not nothing. It is something.


You have no idea what "do anything/something" even should be.


I have no doubt Joe Biden will be president on January 20th. The margin is too big, Trump's team is too dumb, and a host of other reasons. Having said that...

This erosion of norms, to use an admittedly weak phrase, is really disappointing/frustrating. I'll guess we'll never see an election called/conceded on election night again in our lifetimes. We'll have to play out this charade of lawsuits and ballot certifications and not even really concealed racism every four years (at least). Do you really put it past the current Republican party to try and decertify state election results in the near future? The platform of the party is that they have sufficiently taken over the justice system and therefore their path to victory is to turn it into a legal battle. It won't work this time, and it probably won't work next time, but it's still gross and infuriating.


Sure, but and endless parade of bloggers and social media journos howling that every new development is THE thing that is ushering the Trump coup has turned every single BS legal and systematic challenge right now to the end of the horsefeathering world. Graham's story is going to get lost in the noise of people screaming that "NOBODY IS DOING ANYTHING!!!!!" despite the Democrats calling for his resignation and demanding an investigation. Like, what are they expecting? That Graham is going to be dragged out of his office and thrown down the steps of the Capitol Building if they yell loud enough about how hopeless this all is?
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:34 pm

CubinNY wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
CubinNY wrote:I do you dick head. The DNC and the Democrats need to start suing Trump. They need to get all the lawyers to start filing complaints with the Bar associations. The HOR needs to use inherent contempt and go after those in the Trump administration. They need to fight for this country instead of waiting to see what Trump is going to do next and react to it. Because these guys are not going to stop.

And one more thing, the cacoon of smug horsefeathers you keep yourself is wearing a bit thin.


Wait, do you seriously think there have been no legal challenges to what the Trump team has been taking to court?

A defense is not a challenge it's a defense.


So you want them to trump (hey, look at that) the Republican's BS lawsuits with their own BS lawsuits. I mean, sure, it'll let Trump and co. step up the grifty money suck they've got going, which is something, I guess. A fool and his money, and all that stuff.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Derwood » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:18 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
You have no idea what "do anything/something" even should be.


I have no doubt Joe Biden will be president on January 20th. The margin is too big, Trump's team is too dumb, and a host of other reasons. Having said that...

This erosion of norms, to use an admittedly weak phrase, is really disappointing/frustrating. I'll guess we'll never see an election called/conceded on election night again in our lifetimes. We'll have to play out this charade of lawsuits and ballot certifications and not even really concealed racism every four years (at least). Do you really put it past the current Republican party to try and decertify state election results in the near future? The platform of the party is that they have sufficiently taken over the justice system and therefore their path to victory is to turn it into a legal battle. It won't work this time, and it probably won't work next time, but it's still gross and infuriating.


Sure, but and endless parade of bloggers and social media journos howling that every new development is THE thing that is ushering the Trump coup has turned every single BS legal and systematic challenge right now to the end of the horsefeathering world. Graham's story is going to get lost in the noise of people screaming that "NOBODY IS DOING ANYTHING!!!!!" despite the Democrats calling for his resignation and demanding an investigation. Like, what are they expecting? That Graham is going to be dragged out of his office and thrown down the steps of the Capitol Building if they yell loud enough about how hopeless this all is?


Oooohh, calling for his resignation? That’ll surely stop them in the future.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:30 pm

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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:40 pm

Derwood wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
I have no doubt Joe Biden will be president on January 20th. The margin is too big, Trump's team is too dumb, and a host of other reasons. Having said that...

This erosion of norms, to use an admittedly weak phrase, is really disappointing/frustrating. I'll guess we'll never see an election called/conceded on election night again in our lifetimes. We'll have to play out this charade of lawsuits and ballot certifications and not even really concealed racism every four years (at least). Do you really put it past the current Republican party to try and decertify state election results in the near future? The platform of the party is that they have sufficiently taken over the justice system and therefore their path to victory is to turn it into a legal battle. It won't work this time, and it probably won't work next time, but it's still gross and infuriating.


Sure, but and endless parade of bloggers and social media journos howling that every new development is THE thing that is ushering the Trump coup has turned every single BS legal and systematic challenge right now to the end of the horsefeathering world. Graham's story is going to get lost in the noise of people screaming that "NOBODY IS DOING ANYTHING!!!!!" despite the Democrats calling for his resignation and demanding an investigation. Like, what are they expecting? That Graham is going to be dragged out of his office and thrown down the steps of the Capitol Building if they yell loud enough about how hopeless this all is?


Oooohh, calling for his resignation? That’ll surely stop them in the future.


Says the guy crowing in the Politics Thread for the House to launch another completely fruitless impeachment process.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:41 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:


No horsefeathering horsefeathers.

Jesus Christ.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Derwood » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:42 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Sure, but and endless parade of bloggers and social media journos howling that every new development is THE thing that is ushering the Trump coup has turned every single BS legal and systematic challenge right now to the end of the horsefeathering world. Graham's story is going to get lost in the noise of people screaming that "NOBODY IS DOING ANYTHING!!!!!" despite the Democrats calling for his resignation and demanding an investigation. Like, what are they expecting? That Graham is going to be dragged out of his office and thrown down the steps of the Capitol Building if they yell loud enough about how hopeless this all is?


Oooohh, calling for his resignation? That’ll surely stop them in the future.


Says the guy crowing in the Politics Thread for the House to launch another completely fruitless impeachment process.


We can just impeach the state level people instead. Every SOS who has election workers pull horsefeathers like we're seeing in Wayne County gets taken down. Clean shop
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:47 pm

Derwood wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:
Oooohh, calling for his resignation? That’ll surely stop them in the future.


Says the guy crowing in the Politics Thread for the House to launch another completely fruitless impeachment process.


We can just impeach the state level people instead. Every SOS who has election workers pull horsefeathers like we're seeing in Wayne County gets taken down. Clean shop


It's horsefeathering theater until all the key dates pass, so it's fruitless to pine for something like that right now. The reality is we have and have always had this window for theatrical horsefeathers. Screaming for the Democrats to wildly start throwing out impeachments and arrests and lawsuits right now is just yearning for them to throw their own horsefeathers at the walls to make you feel better.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Derwood » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:53 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Says the guy crowing in the Politics Thread for the House to launch another completely fruitless impeachment process.


We can just impeach the state level people instead. Every SOS who has election workers pull horsefeathers like we're seeing in Wayne County gets taken down. Clean shop


It's horsefeathering theater until all the key dates pass, so it's fruitless to pine for something like that right now. The reality is we have and have always had this window for theatrical horsefeathers. Screaming for the Democrats to wildly start throwing out impeachments and arrests and lawsuits right now is just yearning for them to throw their own horsefeathers at the walls to make you feel better.


WIldly? Nah. Methodically? Maybe.

The greater point is that horsefeathers like this should be punishable. These people need to be made examples of so that this isn't tried (but with more planning) next time around. There need to be consequences for openly attempting to override an election, even if they don't succeed (and they won't).
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:58 pm

Derwood wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:
We can just impeach the state level people instead. Every SOS who has election workers pull horsefeathers like we're seeing in Wayne County gets taken down. Clean shop


It's horsefeathering theater until all the key dates pass, so it's fruitless to pine for something like that right now. The reality is we have and have always had this window for theatrical horsefeathers. Screaming for the Democrats to wildly start throwing out impeachments and arrests and lawsuits right now is just yearning for them to throw their own horsefeathers at the walls to make you feel better.


WIldly? Nah. Methodically? Maybe.

The greater point is that horsefeathers like this should be punishable. These people need to be made examples of so that this isn't tried (but with more planning) next time around. There need to be consequences for openly attempting to override an election, even if they don't succeed (and they won't).


But the really, really, really big catch is that a ton of this stuff is arguably (or even pretty obviously) NOT punishable, or at least not at this point.

And that's not talking about stuff like what Graham was trying to pull. But almost all the horsefeathers with the electors and the certification process so far is, infuriating as it is, nuisance theatrical bull horsefeathers. You'd have to better define/refine the process officially after the fact to be able to crackdown as hard as you'd like at this point over what has been done or (and this is also key) what has been suggested or inferred.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:10 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:

Not to be nitpicky, but if it wasn't haphazard, wouldn't it be a lot more serious?
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby squally1313 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:13 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
It's horsefeathering theater until all the key dates pass, so it's fruitless to pine for something like that right now. The reality is we have and have always had this window for theatrical horsefeathers. Screaming for the Democrats to wildly start throwing out impeachments and arrests and lawsuits right now is just yearning for them to throw their own horsefeathers at the walls to make you feel better.


WIldly? Nah. Methodically? Maybe.

The greater point is that horsefeathers like this should be punishable. These people need to be made examples of so that this isn't tried (but with more planning) next time around. There need to be consequences for openly attempting to override an election, even if they don't succeed (and they won't).


But the really, really, really big catch is that a ton of this stuff is arguably (or even pretty obviously) NOT punishable, or at least not at this point.

And that's not talking about stuff like what Graham was trying to pull. But almost all the horsefeathers with the electors and the certification process so far is, infuriating as it is, nuisance theatrical bull horsefeathers. You'd have to better define/refine the process officially after the fact to be able to crackdown as hard as you'd like at this point over what has been done or (and this is also key) what has been suggested or inferred.


Does that extend to Trump contacting the election officials directly?
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:18 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Ding Dong Johnson wrote:

Not to be nitpicky, but if it wasn't haphazard, wouldn't it be a lot more serious?


It's a sort of sideways inverse of the meme about "well, I didn't expect the Leopards Who Will Eat Your Face-candidate to eat MY face." This has been Trump's MO for his entire life. If the dude has a business plan, it's obfuscate and create chaos with bluster and lawsuits until he gets some variation of his way (at least in his eyes) or can slink off thinking he wasn't the obvious loser. That's certainly not to excuse what he's doing, but it's literally Trump Being Trump. The difference is now he's transplanting from the private/commercial sector to the horsefeathering White House. That's another one of the reasons why it's so off to act like this horsefeathers is being normalized or ignored now when it was horsefeathering normalized DECADES ago. This is what he is (and, to a somewhat lesser degree, this is also the Republicans being the Republicans). Worrying about normalization is horsefeathering decades too late. Again, that obviously doesn't make it OK, but railing on people, for not getting it or frantically handwaving about seeing some previously unknown Monster Evil are completely missing that most people DO, sadly, get it because this is SOP.

And yeah, it horsefeathering sucks that he is in this position, but he's not unleashing some new or surprising bag of tricks.
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Re: Journalism Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:29 pm

squally1313 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:
WIldly? Nah. Methodically? Maybe.

The greater point is that horsefeathers like this should be punishable. These people need to be made examples of so that this isn't tried (but with more planning) next time around. There need to be consequences for openly attempting to override an election, even if they don't succeed (and they won't).


But the really, really, really big catch is that a ton of this stuff is arguably (or even pretty obviously) NOT punishable, or at least not at this point.

And that's not talking about stuff like what Graham was trying to pull. But almost all the horsefeathers with the electors and the certification process so far is, infuriating as it is, nuisance theatrical bull horsefeathers. You'd have to better define/refine the process officially after the fact to be able to crackdown as hard as you'd like at this point over what has been done or (and this is also key) what has been suggested or inferred.


Does that extend to Trump contacting the election officials directly?


Bizarrely, yes. I could see trying to make a case saying it was election interference via a drawn out court battle if it's heard in the first place, but as far as I can tell there' nothing expressly on the books anywhere saying the president can't speak to the canvassers after the votes have already been submitted for certification. For all the reports of how those canvassers are now acting like they have buyer's remorse in regards to their vote, the system to reverse those votes or re-vote doesn't even exist in the first place.
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