If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

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If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby snoodmonger » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:50 pm

would you do it? If you don't, there's a good chance you die in the next 10 years. If you do, you'll get at least 25 more. Assume they're good years, not hooked-to-a-machine, palliative care years.

No cheats. Whole food, plant protein based diet. So your restricted list includes but is not limited to:

--no meat (including fish), obviously
--no cheese
--no eggs
--no dairy
--no processed food (that's the whole food part)
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:55 pm

I would find a new doctor
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby NOLA » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:57 pm

Vegetarian, yes. Vegan, no way.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby Tim » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:01 pm

How does vegan assure my plane won't crash, that I won't break my neck while surfing, contract meningitis or any number of other horsefeathering things?

You can't guarantee that a diet switch will give an extra 25 years.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:02 pm

Sure.

Though that's based on the reality that there's TONS of really delicious vegan food that is also terrible for you, which doesn't seem like something this person teetering on the precipice of life and death would be able to eat.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby The Logan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:15 pm

I think there are personal and medical benefits to vegetarianism and veganism depending on the person and their situation, but I feel like any doctor who says to ingest plant-based proteins because meat based proteins will kill you without citing a proper medical reason why other than "it will kill you in 10 years" is a really bad doctor. Has this patient developed an auto-immune condition from eating meat based proteins? A food allergy? Or is this just some doctor who is drinking the vegan kool-aid and preaching it to his patients and trying to scare them into not eating animals?
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby snoodmonger » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:18 pm

Tim wrote:How does vegan assure my plane won't crash, that I won't break my neck while surfing, contract meningitis or any number of other horsefeathering things?

You can't guarantee that a diet switch will give an extra 25 years.


I think you get the gist of the post. But since you're being willfully obtuse, no it doesn't guarantee you won't be hit by a bus. In this hypothetical situation, it can reverse whatever health problem the doctor has diagnosed you with (eg. heart disease) and, over time, take you from extremely high-risk to moderate- to low-risk.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby The Logan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:22 pm

snoodmonger wrote:
Tim wrote:How does vegan assure my plane won't crash, that I won't break my neck while surfing, contract meningitis or any number of other horsefeathering things?

You can't guarantee that a diet switch will give an extra 25 years.


I think you get the gist of the post. But since you're being willfully obtuse, no it doesn't guarantee you won't be hit by a bus. In this hypothetical situation, it can reverse whatever health problem the doctor has diagnosed you with (eg. heart disease) and, over time, take you from extremely high-risk to moderate- to low-risk.


If heart disease is the issue then I side with NOLA, in that I think vegetarianism will produce similar if not the same results. Telling someone to go straight vegan or else seems like a scare tactic, to a degree. I'm sure going vegan would certainly get the job done, but I'm not certain it's the only way to get the job done.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby NOLA » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:24 pm

The Logan wrote:
snoodmonger wrote:
Tim wrote:How does vegan assure my plane won't crash, that I won't break my neck while surfing, contract meningitis or any number of other horsefeathering things?

You can't guarantee that a diet switch will give an extra 25 years.


I think you get the gist of the post. But since you're being willfully obtuse, no it doesn't guarantee you won't be hit by a bus. In this hypothetical situation, it can reverse whatever health problem the doctor has diagnosed you with (eg. heart disease) and, over time, take you from extremely high-risk to moderate- to low-risk.


If heart disease is the issue then I side with NOLA, in that I think vegetarianism will produce similar if not the same results. Telling someone to go straight vegan or else seems like a scare tactic, to a degree. I'm sure going vegan would certainly get the job done, but I'm not certain it's the only way to get the job done.

That, and cheese is good. Although I think I might have as much trouble giving up eggs as I would cheese.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:25 pm

The Logan wrote:I think there are personal and medical benefits to vegetarianism and veganism depending on the person and their situation, but I feel like any doctor who says to ingest plant-based proteins because meat based proteins will kill you without citing a proper medical reason why other than "it will kill you in 10 years" is a really bad doctor. Has this patient developed an auto-immune condition from eating meat based proteins? A food allergy? Or is this just some doctor who is drinking the vegan kool-aid and preaching it to his patients and trying to scare them into not eating animals?


The Impossible/Beyond burgers alone are a perfect example of how vegetarian/vegan food can be just as terrible for you as "real" food.

Also: vegan baking. Soooooo good, and SO unhealthy.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby snoodmonger » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:27 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
The Logan wrote:I think there are personal and medical benefits to vegetarianism and veganism depending on the person and their situation, but I feel like any doctor who says to ingest plant-based proteins because meat based proteins will kill you without citing a proper medical reason why other than "it will kill you in 10 years" is a really bad doctor. Has this patient developed an auto-immune condition from eating meat based proteins? A food allergy? Or is this just some doctor who is drinking the vegan kool-aid and preaching it to his patients and trying to scare them into not eating animals?


The Impossible/Beyond burgers alone are a perfect example of how vegetarian/vegan food can be just as terrible for you as "real" food.

Also: vegan baking. Soooooo good, and SO unhealthy.


i have yet to experience vegan baking that is "soooooo good."
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby The Logan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:30 pm

snoodmonger wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
The Logan wrote:I think there are personal and medical benefits to vegetarianism and veganism depending on the person and their situation, but I feel like any doctor who says to ingest plant-based proteins because meat based proteins will kill you without citing a proper medical reason why other than "it will kill you in 10 years" is a really bad doctor. Has this patient developed an auto-immune condition from eating meat based proteins? A food allergy? Or is this just some doctor who is drinking the vegan kool-aid and preaching it to his patients and trying to scare them into not eating animals?


The Impossible/Beyond burgers alone are a perfect example of how vegetarian/vegan food can be just as terrible for you as "real" food.

Also: vegan baking. Soooooo good, and SO unhealthy.


i have yet to experience vegan baking that is "soooooo good."


It's not necessarily baking, but there's place in Chicago called The Chicago Diner that is all vegetarian/vegan and I got a Cuban sandwich from there and it was maybe a Top 3 Cuban sandwich for me. Even though it wasn't technically a Cuban, the flavor profile was there and was as good as any Cuban I've ever had. Vegan food can be downright awesome... if you find a place that knows WTF they're doing. Buying pre-packaged vegan based products in the store (i.e. vegan shredded cheese) is horsefeathering disgusting.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:31 pm

our office has installed a "healthy" snacks policy where they constantly refill the pantry with random horsefeathers and much of it is vegan and absolutely terrible tasting, as well as not the least bit healthy.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby NOLA » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:31 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
The Logan wrote:I think there are personal and medical benefits to vegetarianism and veganism depending on the person and their situation, but I feel like any doctor who says to ingest plant-based proteins because meat based proteins will kill you without citing a proper medical reason why other than "it will kill you in 10 years" is a really bad doctor. Has this patient developed an auto-immune condition from eating meat based proteins? A food allergy? Or is this just some doctor who is drinking the vegan kool-aid and preaching it to his patients and trying to scare them into not eating animals?


The Impossible/Beyond burgers alone are a perfect example of how vegetarian/vegan food can be just as terrible for you as "real" food.

Huh? How do you say that? I've researched both quite a bit as part of what I do for a living. I'll say Impossible is world's better than Beyond meat.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:32 pm

snoodmonger wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
The Logan wrote:I think there are personal and medical benefits to vegetarianism and veganism depending on the person and their situation, but I feel like any doctor who says to ingest plant-based proteins because meat based proteins will kill you without citing a proper medical reason why other than "it will kill you in 10 years" is a really bad doctor. Has this patient developed an auto-immune condition from eating meat based proteins? A food allergy? Or is this just some doctor who is drinking the vegan kool-aid and preaching it to his patients and trying to scare them into not eating animals?


The Impossible/Beyond burgers alone are a perfect example of how vegetarian/vegan food can be just as terrible for you as "real" food.

Also: vegan baking. Soooooo good, and SO unhealthy.


i have yet to experience vegan baking that is "soooooo good."


I feel for you, my dude. I've had vegan cookies, cupcakes, scones, cinnamon rolls and brownies thanks to my co-worker that are life-changing. Now, granted, she was a world class baker before she went vegan, but it still shows it can be done.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby Derwood » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:33 pm

Is the Doctor going to donate his/her salary to me to afford this Vegan lifestyle?
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:35 pm

NOLA wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
The Logan wrote:I think there are personal and medical benefits to vegetarianism and veganism depending on the person and their situation, but I feel like any doctor who says to ingest plant-based proteins because meat based proteins will kill you without citing a proper medical reason why other than "it will kill you in 10 years" is a really bad doctor. Has this patient developed an auto-immune condition from eating meat based proteins? A food allergy? Or is this just some doctor who is drinking the vegan kool-aid and preaching it to his patients and trying to scare them into not eating animals?


The Impossible/Beyond burgers alone are a perfect example of how vegetarian/vegan food can be just as terrible for you as "real" food.

Huh? How do you say that? I've researched both quite a bit as part of what I do for a living. I'll say Impossible is world's better than Beyond meat.

isn't there some sort of issue with the saturated fat that comes from whatever protein they substitute? Plus it's highly processed stuff.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:36 pm

NOLA wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
The Logan wrote:I think there are personal and medical benefits to vegetarianism and veganism depending on the person and their situation, but I feel like any doctor who says to ingest plant-based proteins because meat based proteins will kill you without citing a proper medical reason why other than "it will kill you in 10 years" is a really bad doctor. Has this patient developed an auto-immune condition from eating meat based proteins? A food allergy? Or is this just some doctor who is drinking the vegan kool-aid and preaching it to his patients and trying to scare them into not eating animals?


The Impossible/Beyond burgers alone are a perfect example of how vegetarian/vegan food can be just as terrible for you as "real" food.

Huh? How do you say that? I've researched both quite a bit as part of what I do for a living. I'll say Impossible is world's better than Beyond meat.


I like both of them! But you're basically trading off less cholesteral and (sometimes) less fat for comparable calories and WAY more sodium and carbs than what you would get with actual meat burgers (beef, chicken or turkey) (plus less protein).

These new meatless burgers are HUGE steps in the right direction, but it would be a massive mistake for people to eat them thinking they are "healthy foods" at this point. But they have been continually tweaking the formulas, and are always trending in the right direction.

But right now, if someone thought, "hey, I like eating burgers multiple times a week, but if I switch to Beyond/Impossible burgers instead I can keep doing that because it would be much healthier," they're wrong.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby NOLA » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:39 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
NOLA wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
The Impossible/Beyond burgers alone are a perfect example of how vegetarian/vegan food can be just as terrible for you as "real" food.

Huh? How do you say that? I've researched both quite a bit as part of what I do for a living. I'll say Impossible is world's better than Beyond meat.

isn't there some sort of issue with the saturated fat that comes from whatever protein they substitute? Plus it's highly processed stuff.

A quarter pound Impoosible Burger has 8g saturated fat. That's not bad for a burger at all. We're selling them like crazy until Burger King came around and wiped out their inventory.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby snoodmonger » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:40 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
NOLA wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
The Impossible/Beyond burgers alone are a perfect example of how vegetarian/vegan food can be just as terrible for you as "real" food.

Huh? How do you say that? I've researched both quite a bit as part of what I do for a living. I'll say Impossible is world's better than Beyond meat.

isn't there some sort of issue with the saturated fat that comes from whatever protein they substitute? Plus it's highly processed stuff.


Yeah, they taste pretty good, but they are not good for you. And they wouldn't count under the hypothetical original post because, as you said, it's processed and not a whole food.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby NOLA » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:41 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
NOLA wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
The Impossible/Beyond burgers alone are a perfect example of how vegetarian/vegan food can be just as terrible for you as "real" food.

Huh? How do you say that? I've researched both quite a bit as part of what I do for a living. I'll say Impossible is world's better than Beyond meat.


I like both of them! But you're basically trading off less cholesteral and (sometimes) less fat for comparable calories and WAY more sodium and carbs than what you would get with actual meat burgers (beef, chicken or turkey) (plus less protein).

These new meatless burgers are HUGE steps in the right direction, but it would be a massive mistake for people to eat them thinking they are "healthy foods" at this point. But they have been continually tweaking the formulas, and are always trending in the right direction.

But right now, if someone thought, "hey, I like eating burgers multiple times a week, but if I switch to Beyond/Impossible burgers instead I can keep doing that because it would be much healthier," they're wrong.

I agree mostly, but the point of intorducing those alternative meats is to provide a viable healthier substitute than beef. I don't know that anyone is saying they're going on the fake burger diet plan. It's just a step in the right direction, not a cure all for good health.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby SouthSideRyan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:41 pm

Snoods just out here trying to crowdsource some ideas for his latest sitcom and you spoilsports have to well akshually the whole thing
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:51 pm

NOLA wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
NOLA wrote:Huh? How do you say that? I've researched both quite a bit as part of what I do for a living. I'll say Impossible is world's better than Beyond meat.

isn't there some sort of issue with the saturated fat that comes from whatever protein they substitute? Plus it's highly processed stuff.

A quarter pound Impoosible Burger has 8g saturated fat. That's not bad for a burger at all. We're selling them like crazy until Burger King came around and wiped out their inventory.

A restaurant by me recently had an instagram post bitching about them selling out inventory to "a big chain" and not being available anymore.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:51 pm

NOLA wrote:I agree mostly, but the point of intorducing those alternative meats is to provide a viable healthier substitute than beef. I don't know that anyone is saying they're going on the fake burger diet plan. It's just a step in the right direction, not a cure all for good health.


Dude, this started because I said there's vegan/veggie options out there that are just as unhealthy for you as meat/dairy options, and, correctly, used those burgers as an example. The diet was just a hypothetical; as it stands right now, eating a Beyond/Impossible burger instead of a beef burger is just swapping one type of unhealthy/restricted eating for another.

I mean, in the grand scheme of things, if someone is looking just from an overall nutritional standpoint of burgers, a lean chicken or turkey burger usually wins out over beef or plant.

But a lot of this just comes down to issues with branding/advertising. Foods like the new plant burgers are, very intentionally, marketed a la "organic" or "non-GMO" or "natural" foods as if they're inherently healthy eating options, and that's often simply not the case. A plant burger is never going to be "healthy food" as long as they trying to make them to taste like "real burgers," but the people selling them LOVE it that a ton of people look at them that way.
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Re: If your Dr said going vegan would add 15 years to your life...

Postby snoodmonger » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:52 pm

The Logan wrote:I think there are personal and medical benefits to vegetarianism and veganism depending on the person and their situation, but I feel like any doctor who says to ingest plant-based proteins because meat based proteins will kill you without citing a proper medical reason why other than "it will kill you in 10 years" is a really bad doctor. Has this patient developed an auto-immune condition from eating meat based proteins? A food allergy? Or is this just some doctor who is drinking the vegan kool-aid and preaching it to his patients and trying to scare them into not eating animals?



This is a hypothetical loosely based on an interaction with my cardiologist. He didn't say the 10 years thing or the 25 year thing at all. I made that part up. He did recommend a whole-food, plant based diet though.

The long and short of it is:
A: My dad died at 53, and he was the longest lived male ever on that side of the family.
B. I just turned 43 and decided to have a looksie in the ol' heart zone, and the results were not good. I was in the 99th percentile for arterial calcification for my age and gender.
C. Unlike my dad, I exercise all the time and have largely eaten a healthy version of the standard American diet. (Lean meats, lots of fish, omega 3 acids, low saturated fat, avoid processed foods as much as possible, etc.)
D. Despite that, it still wasn't great in there. He recommended going vegan (and a book called "How Not to Die." Fun!). He said if I went to another doctor or a nutritionist, they would likely recommend something much more conservative. So he acknowledged this was a big swing. However, the diet he said would likely be recommended sounded an awful lot like the diet I already eat.

Anyway, I was just wondering if other people would do it. It felt super sorry for myself for two days, then just went 100% vegan because why not. Whatever I had been doing wasn't working. Been doing it for a few weeks and it's not so bad. Miss cheese and real dessert more than meat, tbh.
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