The Beatles thread

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The Beatles thread

Postby OleMissCub » Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:44 pm

UMFan83 wrote:
CubinNY wrote:I've really gotten into some of the psychology of the Beatles breakup, most of it is hypothesizing on various aspects of John and Yoko's relationship or the death of Epstein as precipitating factors. But I think there is a lot of truth to the fact that the breakup had more to do with them not touring. Because they stopped touring (with good reasons), they only really interacted during the drudgery and difficult work of creating music. It caused a lot of conflicts, especially between George and Paul. It created a situation where they put out a lot of music in a short time, but the toll was steep.

They couldn't tour because the technology of the time hadn't caught up with their popularity. A lot of their new music was created using pretty sophisticated recording techniques that couldn't be reproduced live. Ringo said during their last tour he couldn't hear them playing due to the screaming fans and had to keep time by their gyrations on stage. There were also lots of death threats due to a misunderstanding of John's "bigger than Jesus" quip. In the Philippines, they got surrounded by the military after Imelda Marcos was insulted and had to give all the money from the concert to Marcos. So the reasons they stopped are pretty good ones.

I think if they continued to tour, Paul and John would have had more time to collaborate on the road and they would have enjoyed being the Beatles more than being four guys in the Beatles. In the end, their success doomed them.


I don't know if George would have stayed in the band if they continued to tour. He was done with touring and did not seem to soften on it in the later years of the Beatles. I don't disagree with the idea that the band may have stayed together more if they were on the road touring in theory, that was why they (Paul) conceived of the idea for Let It Be, as a way to save the band.

My belief is that all of them talked about leaving but none of them actually wanted to leave as there was a certain amount of safety and familiarity with being in the group. Yes John said he was leaving the band, but he also asked them to keep it quiet and it stayed that way for months. They even negotiated and signed a new recording contract during that time. I think he would have eventually returned to the group if they just laid low. But Paul had a mental breakdown and felt alienated from the other Beatles due to Klein and various other reasons and felt powerless. The only way he could think to regain that power was to release the questionnaire with his solo record. Once that hit the news it widened the rift between Paul and the other 3. But even then they still talked publicly about eventually getting back together soon. The death blow was when Paul sued the other 3 to dissolve the Beatles.

Paul says he didn't break up the Beatles and he's right in some regards, but his actions directly led to the 2 biggest daggers that made it impossible for them to get back together IMO.

Edit: Also I mentioned this a few posts ago but given that you said you are into the psychology of the breakup, if you haven't already read "You Never Give Me Your Money" as it covers this whole era in great detail specifically relating to what caused them to break up, and then all the issues in the 70s that prevented them from getting back together.


Good answer UM. Paul's actions in the spring 1970 were definitely what "killed" the Beatles. As I mentioned earlier, the other 3 never had any issues working together. There's audio out there from an interview George did in early 1970 talking about his hopes for another Beatles album that year. I think he, John, and Ringo had hopes that the band could continue and that future Beatles albums would be concurrent with any individual solo albums i.e. they would each be doing their own things but would come together once a year or two to make an album.

Ultimately though, it was the death of Brian that set the inevitable into motion. All 4 of them looked up to Brian completely and always had faith in him, despite some of the errors he had made in the past such as the disastrous deal with Dick James Publishing. Brian was feeling a bit out of the loop in 1967 due to them no longer touring, but I think he'd have been reinvigorated by running Apple (assuming they still did that). I think he certainly would have done a better job than a sycophant like Neil Aspinall. Brian was genuinely like a father to them all and had always done a remarkable job reigning in their respective egos. We can never say for certain, but I'd wager that the Beatles would have lasted longer if Brian had lived.
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby UMFan83 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:49 pm

It make me irrationally happy to have a Beatles thread
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby OleMissCub » Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:58 pm

UMFan83 wrote:It make me irrationally happy to have a Beatles thread


Indeed!

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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby Derwood » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:15 pm

To me, it felt like they resented Paul for being a task master and having a specific way he wanted things done, but that if Paul wasn't piloting the ship, that they would just aimlessly jam forever and never coalesce around an arrangement for any of the songs. I know some find it charming that John was a jokester and kept singing songs in non-serious ways, but I bet it drove Paul crazy when he was trying to figure out what the finished version of the songs was going to be
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby BigSlick » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:21 pm

I've only seen the first episode but really enjoy this. Not to act like I'm anything special but man this really just reminded me of what my band is like when we're practicing. They're just a bunch of dudes in their 20s shooting the horsefeathers and messing around.

Also surprised me so much how easily they work together, even when George stormed off it wasn't all that dramatic - all the biographies I read made this period sound super acrimonious and thats not really the sense one gets watching this. (And thats apparently what Paul and Ringo both said, they remembered it as a very negative time and were surprised when rewatching the footage)
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby UMFan83 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:31 pm

The Hello Goodbye videos are probably my favorite. Not the straight one but the alternate takes. Even George gets into it.



There is actually an even better one IMO but the Beatles had it removed from video streaming sights. Here is one I found but they had to put a watermark over it and cut the audio to keep it up.

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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby UMFan83 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:37 pm

Derwood wrote:To me, it felt like they resented Paul for being a task master and having a specific way he wanted things done, but that if Paul wasn't piloting the ship, that they would just aimlessly jam forever and never coalesce around an arrangement for any of the songs. I know some find it charming that John was a jokester and kept singing songs in non-serious ways, but I bet it drove Paul crazy when he was trying to figure out what the finished version of the songs was going to be


Paul also stepped into the power vacuum because John was focused on Yoko and heroin. John was always looked at as the leader of the group so it ruffled some feathers when he took over out of necessity. John resented it but wouldn't do anything about it. George resented it because he really looked up to John and Paul leading the group brought out all the qualities he hated in him. Ringo seemed cool with Paul until he kicked Ringo out of his house and told him "I'll end you!"

One of the things I liked about the documentary is that you can see Paul standing down a bit and controlling his impulses after George returns. Then again the closing scene after the rooftop shows Paul pressing the band to keep doing endless takes of Let It Be and Long and Winding Road while John looks bored out of his mind so clearly he couldn't completely rein it in.
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:40 pm

Derwood wrote:I know some find it charming that John was a jokester and kept singing songs in non-serious ways, but I bet it drove Paul crazy when he was trying to figure out what the finished version of the songs was going to be

My brother got kicked out of a band for playing that silly little guitar lick from Creed's "Higher" at random, inopportune moments. "Can you take me higher?!" (do-do-dittly-do!!!)
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby CubinNY » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:40 pm

Derwood wrote:To me, it felt like they resented Paul for being a task master and having a specific way he wanted things done, but that if Paul wasn't piloting the ship, that they would just aimlessly jam forever and never coalesce around an arrangement for any of the songs. I know some find it charming that John was a jokester and kept singing songs in non-serious ways, but I bet it drove Paul crazy when he was trying to figure out what the finished version of the songs was going to be

I think they would have resented it a lot less if he would have accepted more collaboration. My take is that he always saw George as the little brother and didn't respect him as much as he should as a musician. To me aside from Imagine, All Things Must Pass is the best post-Beatles album from any of them.
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby UMFan83 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:46 pm

CubinNY wrote:
Derwood wrote:To me, it felt like they resented Paul for being a task master and having a specific way he wanted things done, but that if Paul wasn't piloting the ship, that they would just aimlessly jam forever and never coalesce around an arrangement for any of the songs. I know some find it charming that John was a jokester and kept singing songs in non-serious ways, but I bet it drove Paul crazy when he was trying to figure out what the finished version of the songs was going to be

I think they would have resented it a lot less if he would have accepted more collaboration. My take is that he always saw George as the little brother and didn't respect him as much as he should as a musician. To me aside from Imagine, All Things Must Pass is the best post-Beatles album from any of them.


He definitely saw him as a little brother. He has probably used that term hundreds of times publicly even after George made it clear that he didn't appreciate being seen in that way. When George died, the press found Paul for a statement and again he called him his little brother lol. Funny thing is, George was just 8 months younger than Paul. That is a big deal when they met, not as big of a deal when Paul is 60 and George is 59.
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby CubinNY » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:50 pm

One of the cool things is that there is a glimpse briefly in the documentary of Alan Parsons who helped produce the Album. He went on to become a big producer, most notably on Dark Side of the Moon, and then had some success with his own band in the 1980s.
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby OleMissCub » Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:41 pm

BigSlick wrote:Also surprised me so much how easily they work together, even when George stormed off it wasn't all that dramatic


I have to imagine they knew he'd be back. Their low end frustration probably had more to do with the fact that they knew they'd have to go grovel to him more than it was any fear of it being permanent. That sort of thing may have happened a few times throughout the years for all we know and it was just never reported. The way he was like "I'll be leaving now" kind of reeks of a scorned younger brother vibe. Big brother keeps slam dunking over little brother in the driveway and little brother pouts and quits to go inside and play video games (source: I'm the youngest of four boys). That's not to minimize his genuine frustrations and legitimate concerns about the project, but lets not forget he was still a fairly young dude, being only 25 years old then.

George indeed spent many years after the Beatles attempting to play down the little brother narrative, but I think we actually see a good bit of it in this documentary with the way he interacts with the others, etc. There's no doubt he had a big bro/younger bro dynamic with Paul whether he admitted it or not, and I also think he idolized John a bit as well.
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby chopsx9 » Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:28 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
BigSlick wrote:Also surprised me so much how easily they work together, even when George stormed off it wasn't all that dramatic


I have to imagine they knew he'd be back. Their low end frustration probably had more to do with the fact that they knew they'd have to go grovel to him more than it was any fear of it being permanent. That sort of thing may have happened a few times throughout the years for all we know and it was just never reported. The way he was like "I'll be leaving now" kind of reeks of a scorned younger brother vibe. Big brother keeps slam dunking over little brother in the driveway and little brother pouts and quits to go inside and play video games (source: I'm the youngest of four boys). That's not to minimize his genuine frustrations and legitimate concerns about the project, but lets not forget he was still a fairly young dude, being only 25 years old then.

George indeed spent many years after the Beatles attempting to play down the little brother narrative, but I think we actually see a good bit of it in this documentary with the way he interacts with the others, etc. There's no doubt he had a big bro/younger bro dynamic with Paul whether he admitted it or not, and I also think he idolized John a bit as well.


I also think there's a much bigger difference between 2 and 3 than there is between 1 and 2. You can argue forever about McCartney and Lennon as to who's on one or two in the band but Harrison was clearly three and there are going to be issues if the number three guy has aspirations of his own. You see it in other bands all time - the Eagles are a prime example.
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby Derwood » Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:49 am

Annual concert here in Columbus where they play every single Beatles song over the course of ~15 hours

Live feed: https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?re ... 2279237126

Lots of local bands, lots of fun. They're on Magical Mystery Tour right now
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby CubinNY » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:26 pm

Good George Harrison interview where he talks about the breakup.
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:40 pm

Just my personal listenability:

Rubber Soul
Revolver
White Album
Abbey Road
Magical Mystery Tour
Help!
Sgt.Pepper
Let it Be Naked
Hard Day's Night
Beatles for Sale
Please Please Me
Yellow Submarine
With the Beatles
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby Old Style » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:00 pm

To me Abbey Road is the greatest album of all time. Period.
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:02 pm

OleMissCub wrote:Just my personal listenability:

Rubber Soul
Revolver
White Album
Abbey Road
Magical Mystery Tour
Help!
Sgt.Pepper
Let it Be Naked
Hard Day's Night
Beatles for Sale
Please Please Me
Yellow Submarine
With the Beatles


White Album
Sgt Peppers
after that I cycle on them a bit.

I have Rubber Soul on reel to reel, original issue, its worth far more then I ever thought it would be worth.
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:25 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
I have Rubber Soul on reel to reel, original issue, its worth far more then I ever thought it would be worth.


Is it the American version? The original American pressings of that album for some reason kept a couple of false starts at the beginning of "I'm Looking Through You". The American editors thought the false starts were intentional and kept them in.

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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:29 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
I have Rubber Soul on reel to reel, original issue, its worth far more then I ever thought it would be worth.


Is it the American version? The original American pressings of that album for some reason kept a couple of false starts at the beginning of "I'm Looking Through You". The American editors thought the false starts were intentional and kept them in.




not vinyl, its reel to reel, like this:
https://www.discogs.com/release/4671729 ... ubber-Soul

you play it on one of these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reel-to-r ... _recording
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:36 pm

Ah, right. Basically a proto-cassette tape
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:40 pm

OleMissCub wrote:Ah, right. Basically a proto-cassette tape


faaaar better then cassette. cassette tapes are smaller and denser, where r-2-r tapes are wider, longer and thus allow better playback.

A lot of audiophiles will say r-2-r is better quality sound then vinyl, and that can be true based on the condition of the tape and what player you have. A Pioneer 909 r-2-r or Teac x1000r will sound very very good. Vinyl is far easier to collect, and has the following because studios stopped producing r-2-r tapes of original recordings long ago. thats why those old Beetles or Neil Young tapes are so much fun to find in the bottom of a crate of old r-2-r tapes you bought at the garage sale.


eta: but, to answer your question, its been awhile since I listened to it but I think the false start is still on the r-2-r
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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby OleMissCub » Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:11 am

I missed this since it played deep into the credits of the second episode but it’s Billy singing and holy hell this is good. So glad they uploaded it to the channel.

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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby UMFan83 » Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:36 am

I can only imagine how the Beatles would have evolved if they stayed together and Billy joined the group. Dude was a special musician. I was reading Tune In awhile ago about how they initially met Billy in Hamburg when he was opening up for Little Richard and they were just in awe of both of them.

Also on an unrelated note, I didn’t realize they were posting clips on YouTube from Get Back. I loved this random fun jam by Paul

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Re: The Beatles thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:00 am

Derwood wrote:To me, it felt like they resented Paul for being a task master and having a specific way he wanted things done, but that if Paul wasn't piloting the ship, that they would just aimlessly jam forever and never coalesce around an arrangement for any of the songs. I know some find it charming that John was a jokester and kept singing songs in non-serious ways, but I bet it drove Paul crazy when he was trying to figure out what the finished version of the songs was going to be

I look at it another way; Paul was a dick
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