Russo-Ukrainian War

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Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby OleMissCub » Fri May 06, 2022 9:21 pm

Figured it was worthy of its own thread at this point



Going to be interesting if it ever comes out how involved we really are in this war. US Military fighting a war but with Ukrainian soldiers
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri May 06, 2022 10:03 pm

OleMissCub wrote:Figured it was worthy of its own thread at this point



Going to be interesting if it ever comes out how involved we really are in this war. US Military fighting a war but with Ukrainian soldiers

I feel like that is a weird way to put it.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby OleMissCub » Fri May 06, 2022 10:38 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:Figured it was worthy of its own thread at this point



Going to be interesting if it ever comes out how involved we really are in this war. US Military fighting a war but with Ukrainian soldiers

I feel like that is a weird way to put it.


It’s not meant to insult the reality that this is their war. I’m speaking purely militarily. Proxy Wars like this go back to antiquity. This war is essentially being fought against the Russians with our weapons, our training, our intelligence, and their soldiers. With our support of the AFU, this is as much of a proxy war as anything we’ve seen since the early 60’s with our support of the ARVN. It’s fascinating.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri May 06, 2022 10:39 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:Figured it was worthy of its own thread at this point



Going to be interesting if it ever comes out how involved we really are in this war. US Military fighting a war but with Ukrainian soldiers

I feel like that is a weird way to put it.


It’s not meant to insult the reality that this is their war. I’m speaking purely militarily. Proxy Wars like this go back to antiquity. This war is essentially being fought against the Russians with our weapons, our training, our intelligence, and their soldiers. With our support of the AFU, this is as much of a proxy war as anything we’ve seen since the early 60’s with our support of the ARVN. It’s fascinating.

I guess in my mind I mostly associate proxy wars as offensive ones. Maybe that's an overly simplistic way to think about it.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby OleMissCub » Fri May 06, 2022 10:50 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:I guess in my mind I mostly associate proxy wars as offensive ones. Maybe that's an overly simplistic way to think about it.


Interesting. The US’ involvement in proxy wars are generally defensive in nature; consider our support for the UK in the early years of both World Wars or consider all the Cold War conflicts that were meant to stop the spread of communism. The whole domino theory nonsense, etc
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri May 06, 2022 11:11 pm

OleMissCub wrote:This war is essentially being fought against the Russians with our weapons, our training, our intelligence, and their soldiers.


Wow, don't trip over yourself to give the Ukrainians too much credit there!
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby OleMissCub » Fri May 06, 2022 11:22 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:This war is essentially being fought against the Russians with our weapons, our training, our intelligence, and their soldiers.


Wow, don't trip over yourself to give the Ukrainians too much credit there!


Without the courage of their soldiers, all our weapons and intelligence wouldn’t make a difference. And without our weapons and intelligence their courage would be for naught.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri May 06, 2022 11:25 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:This war is essentially being fought against the Russians with our weapons, our training, our intelligence, and their soldiers.


Wow, don't trip over yourself to give the Ukrainians too much credit there!


Without the courage of their soldiers, all our weapons and intelligence wouldn’t make a difference. And without our weapons and intelligence their courage would be for naught.


There's not a bunch of amazing American spies and operatives skulking around the region; most intelligence in Ukraine comes from Ukrainian intelligence services.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby OleMissCub » Fri May 06, 2022 11:38 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Wow, don't trip over yourself to give the Ukrainians too much credit there!


Without the courage of their soldiers, all our weapons and intelligence wouldn’t make a difference. And without our weapons and intelligence their courage would be for naught.


There's not a bunch of amazing American spies and operatives skulking around the region; most intelligence in Ukraine comes from Ukrainian intelligence services.


Yes, there are plenty of Ukrainian spy satellites in orbit and Ukrainian high altitude reconnaissance planes. C’mon. Are you not paying attention to the news coming out of their lately? The Ukrainians themselves are saying that the reason they’ve killed so many generals is because of our recon and intelligence telling their artillery where to fire.

And ya dude, I know that the Ukrainians have their own methods of intelligence gathering. Boots on the ground are always valuable, but Alexei’s drone that he got off Amazon isn’t changing the war; our satellites and spy planes are.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby jersey cubs fan » Sat May 07, 2022 1:03 am

Thought this was about Mad Dog’s latest faux pas.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby OleMissCub » Sat May 07, 2022 3:29 am

Wow

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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby OleMissCub » Sat May 07, 2022 4:16 am

Terrifying weaponry



https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/202 ... 53246.html

The Ukrainian military will soon begin tracking and attacking Russian forces with a secret new “suicide drone” produced by Aevex Aerospace, a little-known Solana Beach, Calif., company that has considerable experience with unmanned aerial systems.

The Biden administration is sending 121 of the company’s Phoenix Ghost drones to Ukraine, where they are expected to get heavy use in the eastern part of the country. Russian forces have regrouped there and are somewhat exposed in flat, open territory similar to California’s Central Valley.

Defense analysts say it appears the Phoenix Ghost will loiter in the sky, quietly looking for targets. Once it finds one, the drone goes into a dive and rams the object, setting off its explosive warhead. Analysts speculate that it is a comparatively small weapon that could be hard to see against the cloud cover that shrouds much of Ukraine in late April and in May.

The vehicle’s specific size, shape, payloads and capabilities haven’t be disclosed. Nor has any one explained the origin of the drone’s name
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat May 07, 2022 12:48 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
Without the courage of their soldiers, all our weapons and intelligence wouldn’t make a difference. And without our weapons and intelligence their courage would be for naught.


There's not a bunch of amazing American spies and operatives skulking around the region; most intelligence in Ukraine comes from Ukrainian intelligence services.


Yes, there are plenty of Ukrainian spy satellites in orbit and Ukrainian high altitude reconnaissance planes. C’mon. Are you not paying attention to the news coming out of their lately? The Ukrainians themselves are saying that the reason they’ve killed so many generals is because of our recon and intelligence telling their artillery where to fire.

And ya dude, I know that the Ukrainians have their own methods of intelligence gathering. Boots on the ground are always valuable, but Alexei’s drone that he got off Amazon isn’t changing the war; our satellites and spy planes are.


I'm sure you know about HUMINT and SIGINT. That aspect is absolutely critical to make these sorts of attacks actually work (we don't have to look far to see how sloppily destructive and ineffective American warfare is without it), and the vast majority of that is absolutely coming from the Ukrainians (and especially here, where to have so much cross-culture between the two countries, and a military apparatus as relatively disorganized and disillusioned as much of Russia's is). To cheer this on and armchair quarterback like the Ukrainians are little more than proxies or surrogates for America is....not a good look.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby OleMissCub » Sat May 07, 2022 1:12 pm

Who said I was cheering anything on? On the contrary, I think it’s dangerous for us to be so actively involved in this conflict.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat May 07, 2022 1:18 pm

Who said I was cheering anything on?


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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby OleMissCub » Sat May 07, 2022 1:31 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Who said I was cheering anything on?


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Ok, you said I was cheering it on. Why do you think that?
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat May 07, 2022 1:43 pm

I need a better "look around this thread" gif.

All of your posts here and in the politics thread sound like one of the game threads, TBH.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby OleMissCub » Sat May 07, 2022 1:52 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:I need a better "look around this thread" gif.

All of your posts here and in the politics thread sound like one of the game threads, TBH.


Well I’m certainly cheering the Ukrainians on and if you aren’t then you should get fvcked. I’m not cheering our escalating intervention on, however.

But whatever, let the thread die
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat May 07, 2022 2:09 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I need a better "look around this thread" gif.

All of your posts here and in the politics thread sound like one of the game threads, TBH.


Well I’m certainly cheering the Ukrainians on and if you aren’t then you should get fvcked. I’m not cheering our escalating intervention on, however.


These things are, unfortunately, at odds with each other.

Foreign support and the capabilities of the Ukrainians are, obviously both integral parts of this. The former doesn't mean dick if you don't have the latter, as we've seen made way too clear elsewhere.

At the end of the day, however, this conflict is not sustainable. It's too destabilizing for too much of the world. It will end because it has to end, and it is going to end with the Ukrainians losing. They likely won't be fully taken over (at least not yet), but they're going to lose a significant chunk of their country. As well as they are fighting, the odds are stacked so far against them that it's impossible for them to keep fighting without foreign intervention, which, again, is not sustainable. Everyone knows this; the economic and humanitarian fallout from an ongoing perpetual conflict can't be maintained. This is why you have Zelensky making overtures for peace talks now, while they have a real shot of not having to give up too much to end this.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby OleMissCub » Sat May 07, 2022 4:45 pm

Correct. The only way this ends within the foreseeable future is if Ukraine cedes the Donbas. In that scenario both sides can claim victory-ish.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby wvcbxl » Mon May 09, 2022 2:05 pm

OleMissCub wrote:Correct. The only way this ends within the foreseeable future is if Ukraine cedes the Donbas. In that scenario both sides can claim victory-ish.


I think the fighting will go on for a while - the interesting situation will be towards the end of June when (according to Elvira Nabiullina, head of Russia’s central bank) Russia’s economy will be in danger of collapsing.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Tue May 10, 2022 11:56 pm

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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby CubinNY » Wed May 11, 2022 12:06 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:

I read a news story about when Russia was staging in Belarus and the soldiers weren't getting paid. They used kerosene and diesel fuel meant for the invasion as currency to get food. The higher army leaders were using the money that was supposed to pay the troops to line their foreign bank accounts. The system is completely corrupt. We are heading in the same direction.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby OleMissCub » Wed May 11, 2022 4:51 pm

There is some irony in the fact that the only man who could have ordered this invasion was probably the only man who thought it would succeed. There is no doubt that Putin actually believed his military was badass and up to the task. Nobody wants to be the one to report bad news to the boss, so he has probably been getting lip service from his generals and analysts the entire time he has been in office.
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Re: Russo-Ukrainian War

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed May 11, 2022 7:50 pm

OleMissCub wrote:There is some irony in the fact that the only man who could have ordered this invasion was probably the only man who thought it would succeed. There is no doubt that Putin actually believed his military was badass and up to the task. Nobody wants to be the one to report bad news to the boss, so he has probably been getting lip service from his generals and analysts the entire time he has been in office.


Have you ever heard of Vladislav Surkov?
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