Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Splendid Splinter » Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:56 pm

No one is going to disagree with you that there wasn't a lot of destruction. What you apparently don't get or maybe don't see the bigger picture is that the destruction is confined to a small area of NYC. The Chitauri stayed in a certain area because the superheroes (specifically Iron Man) kept them in and not let them get loose in the entire NYC metro. Captain America explained that when he gave out the plan. He told Iron Man to "turn them back or turn them to ash". The superheroes did mitigates the destruction, but it's easy to overlook. Again, the later movies and S.H.I.E.L.D TV show talks about the aftermath of that battle.

If you just watch Avengers as a standalone movie, then I get what you're saying. You can't watch these movies like that. They're all meant to be tied in some way so you have to look at it as a whole. It also makes you want to see the next movie because you're wondering at the end, "What happens next?"

Again, you can see the difference when Hulk came out in the Helicarrier and when Bruce let him out for that final battle right? You're supposed to make that assumption. They're not going to explain everything and tie things in a neat little bow so you can understand everything single thing. I don't get why some people expect that. You have to make assumptions or have a little imagination as to why/how/etc.
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby cl smooth » Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:57 pm

derwood is channeling his inner beavis from this clip:

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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Derwood » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:08 pm

Splendid Splinter wrote:No one is going to disagree with you that there wasn't a lot of destruction. What you apparently don't get or maybe don't see the bigger picture is that the destruction is confined to a small area of NYC. The Chitauri stayed in a certain area because the superheroes (specifically Iron Man) kept them in and not let them get loose in the entire NYC metro. Captain America explained that when he gave out the plan. He told Iron Man to "turn them back or turn them to ash". The superheroes did mitigates the destruction, but it's easy to overlook. Again, the later movies and S.H.I.E.L.D TV show talks about the aftermath of that battle.

If you just watch Avengers as a standalone movie, then I get what you're saying. You can't watch these movies like that. They're all meant to be tied in some way so you have to look at it as a whole. It also makes you want to see the next movie because you're wondering at the end, "What happens next?"

Again, you can see the difference when Hulk came out in the Helicarrier and when Bruce let him out for that final battle right? You're supposed to make that assumption. They're not going to explain everything and tie things in a neat little bow so you can understand everything single thing. I don't get why some people expect that. You have to make assumptions or have a little imagination as to why/how/etc.


I'm bored with the destruction argument. It's a blockbuster action movie, it's going to happen.

I'm fine with the Banner controlling Hulk thing being subtle/implied, I was just making sure I didn't miss something
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:16 pm

I’m finally watching Aquaman right now. What a steaming pile of horsefeathers this is.
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby chopsx9 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:30 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:I’m finally watching Aquaman right now. What a steaming pile of horsefeathers this is.


Yeah I was pretty disappointed after initially hearing good things. I did enjoy Mera running across the rooftops in her high heels though.
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:55 pm

Derwood wrote:
Splendid Splinter wrote:No one is going to disagree with you that there wasn't a lot of destruction. What you apparently don't get or maybe don't see the bigger picture is that the destruction is confined to a small area of NYC. The Chitauri stayed in a certain area because the superheroes (specifically Iron Man) kept them in and not let them get loose in the entire NYC metro. Captain America explained that when he gave out the plan. He told Iron Man to "turn them back or turn them to ash". The superheroes did mitigates the destruction, but it's easy to overlook. Again, the later movies and S.H.I.E.L.D TV show talks about the aftermath of that battle.

If you just watch Avengers as a standalone movie, then I get what you're saying. You can't watch these movies like that. They're all meant to be tied in some way so you have to look at it as a whole. It also makes you want to see the next movie because you're wondering at the end, "What happens next?"

Again, you can see the difference when Hulk came out in the Helicarrier and when Bruce let him out for that final battle right? You're supposed to make that assumption. They're not going to explain everything and tie things in a neat little bow so you can understand everything single thing. I don't get why some people expect that. You have to make assumptions or have a little imagination as to why/how/etc.


I'm bored with the destruction argument. It's a blockbuster action movie, it's going to happen.

I'm fine with the Banner controlling Hulk thing being subtle/implied, I was just making sure I didn't miss something


Alright, I'm going to preface this by just assuring you that this post isn't some kind of, "dur-hur, Derwood is Derwooding again" thing.

Sometimes we just get things wrong when watching a movie.

And that's OK! We check our phones, we're eating, we go take a leak, there's kids and or/animals running around...it's easy to miss things!

Sometimes we think things happened in a movie that didn't happen because of these distractions. Like NYC going through a dozen 9/11's in The Avengers; it just didn't happen! If you think it did, hey, that's totally your call; nothing actually in the movie shows or even implies that. If the rest of us are wrong and we're blanking on something that shows the Hulk bringing down an office building or Iron Man razing a city block, please feel free to drop a clip....like this!



See, the Hulk thing isn't simply subtle/or implied. To paraphrase, it's not subtext at all...it's just the text. And again, sometimes we just miss really obvious things when watching a movie or TV show. It happens. It clearly happened here:

Again, not having seen anything post-Avengers and working from only what I saw, we see Banner in basically self-isolation, hiding from the world to control the rage. We then see him go berserk on the ship, trying to kill Black Widow. It's not until after he falls off the ship and into the warehouse that he controls himself.


That's just wrong. And that's not a bad thing! But as you can see form the clip, Banner is most definitely not, "in basically self-isolation, hiding from the world to control the rage." He's in the middle of a busy city, helping people who need medical help but can't afford it. Not exactly a low-stress setting or situation. But hey, he's not turning into the Hulk. He doesn't turn into the Hulk when he realizes he's cornered by the type of people he's been worried about hunting him.

Then when we see him finally Hulk out, it's because his lab blew up and he was hurt.

So what this all builds to is a moment where everything thinks he can only become the Hulk when something bad happens to him, but we get the "twist" that Banner can also let himself turn into the Hulk without some kind of trauma or inciting incident. It's not a gotcha moment, or even a twist; the movie has drawn us, like, 95% of the map. If we're paying attention, it's all right there on the surface. If we're not, hey, we might just miss something. That's life! We all do it. And then sometimes we just have wrong movie takes. The end.
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Derwood » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:16 pm

By self isolation, I meant that he completely removed himself from the environment in which he was turning into the hulk.

The 9/11's thing is subjective; no, they didn't raze entire office buildings, but they did damage dozens of skyscrapers that you wouldn't just cosmetically fix up. Every time Hulk climbed up building he was ripping chunks off and destroying roofs and windows. Three or four hundred-foot, mega-ton robots crashed onto/through buildings. Iron Man destroyed a lot of aliens by getting them to crash into buildings (as he did in IM2, when he destroyed THOSE robots by getting them to crash into bridges)
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby seanimal » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:55 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
It still doesn't make any sense; they minimize what happened, but it's also nothing like the Transformer movies laying waste to entire cities, where the action is a headache just to follow in the first place. It is, again, a superhero movie where the superheroes actually save the day without catastrophic collateral damage because they are...wait for it...superheroes.


Some heroes (re: Hulk) go out of their way to destroy as much as possible while saving the day


I mean...no, that's just flat out not what happened. Look, nobody is going to act like we saw kind of realistic depiction of an alien invasion battling superheroes on the middle of NYC, but the movie repeatedly goes out of it's way to say and show that these are, again, superheroes doing super heroic things by drawing the attackers to themselves so that enough people can be moved/evacuated so that minimal death and injuries are caused. They're not just destroying buildings left and right. You get, what, Hulk and Thor steering that one giant flying turd into a basically empty Grand Central Station? What else are you talking about?


did they even check the horsefeathering national historic register before sacrificing the building? i mean yeah, humanity saved, but at what cost to our architectural heritage?
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Splendid Splinter » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:03 pm

Just keep watching the MCU movies and you'll see that they don't just handwave the destruction of that battle. Like it was said before, it was a key element on Civil War and Homecoming.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to get at with this. Like because they are superheroes that they would be like 10 casualties and very minimal damage? That Hulk would carefully not rip out chunks off or run through buildings? That Iron Man would take the Chitauri all out to the ocean and kill them there so there's nothing/nobody around? There weren't any giant building collapsing (that we see, but I assume a couple did in the end) or an entire block being completely destroyed. Yes, there were ton of damages and it'll take billion of dollars to fix/replace. Ok?

It could've been a horsefeathers ton worse if they let the Chitauri loose throughout the entire city. Instead they kept it inside like 10 city blocks and it got heavily damaged. What were you expecting? That they should be held accountable or responsible for it? Again, keep watching the MCU movies. It's hard to watch the Avengers as a standalone movie. It's actually not a "great" movie by itself because there are questions/plot holes like these. It's a stepping stone to the Phase 2 movies.

By self isolation, I meant that he completely removed himself from the environment in which he was turning into the hulk.


What environment do you think he needs to turn into the Hulk? The environment plays a part of it at times, but it's actually his emotional state that turns him into the Hulk. This goes back to the post where I talked about the end scene of the Hulk movie. Sofa talked about the scene with Black Widow. Notice how he's so calm and collected in that scene? Even when he yelled at her and she reaches for the gun, he still stayed calm/collected. He didn't let loose or have a lapse of judgement/emotion for the Hulk to instinctively take over. That's why he talked about her putting the gun down so the other guy doesn't make a mess.

That's also why Hulk took over in the Helicarrier. Bruce got hurt when the bomb blew up and in that instance, he lost control of his emotion and was in pain and BOOM... Hulk took over and was in the driver's seat so to speak. You can see that Bruce tried to stop/control him as it was happening, but it was too late by then.
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Rob » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:10 pm

Quick recap of the last few pages for anybody just joining in.
"Why didn't they address this?"

"It's addressed later. Don't worry about it. Just wait"

"But it's so bad. Why aren't they addressing it?"

"I'm telling you, they do address it. Watch a few more movies and you'll see."

"But they're just handwaving it away"

"No, they're not. We promise you, it is addressed."

"I'm bored with this argument."


We all are. We all are...
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Derwood » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:25 pm

I'm happy that it's addressed later. That's great. But how am I supposed to know that when I haven't seen those movies yet?

"Uh, duh, that will be addressed 8 movies from now, so how can you be so dumb to not see that?"
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:28 pm

Derwood wrote:I'm happy that it's addressed later. That's great. But how am I supposed to know that when I haven't seen those movies yet?

"Uh, duh, that will be addressed 8 movies from now, so how can you be so dumb to not see that?"

Did you want this movie to be longer, in order to address all of your concerns?

You are aware that there are several movies that follow this one, so if you have all these questions about what happens next, and what about, and will they address, then why wouldn't you just wait to see if those questions are answered?
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Banedon » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:29 pm

Derwood wrote:I'm happy that it's addressed later. That's great. But how am I supposed to know that when I haven't seen those movies yet?

"Uh, duh, that will be addressed 8 movies from now, so how can you be so dumb to not see that?"


This is what this sounds like, Derwood.

"I'm glad that X is addressed later in the book, but how am I supposed to know that when I haven't gotten to those chapters yet?"
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Splendid Splinter » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:33 pm

Derwood wrote:I'm happy that it's addressed later. That's great. But how am I supposed to know that when I haven't seen those movies yet?

"Uh, duh, that will be addressed 8 movies from now, so how can you be so dumb to not see that?"



We all had these questions when it first came out, just like you now. We're telling you that it gets addressed because we have seen them. Maybe instead of having hot takes... Just keep watching the movies so you can see it yourself how they do address it.
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Rob » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:45 pm

Derwood wrote:I'm happy that it's addressed later. That's great. But how am I supposed to know that when I haven't seen those movies yet?

"Uh, duh, that will be addressed 8 movies from now, so how can you be so dumb to not see that?"


Nobody (at least that I saw) gave you much grief over your initial post about why they aren't addressing these things.

The grief is coming because even after people have told you that these things are addressed later, you keep leaning in on your take. It was a totally defensible take if you've only seen the first Avengers. But people have told you it's addressed, so why not just wait and see how it's addressed before continuing to complain about how it wasn't addressed in that specific movie?
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby big ball chunky time » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:51 pm

god im loving the discourse
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:20 pm

Also that scene where they all stood back to back and the camera circled around them was epic so screw you derwood it was a bad take the first time too.
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:55 pm

What mainly throws me is still the idea that someone would see the movie as showing the city going through a ton of 9/11-type destruction (but worse), when it doesn't, and then knock the movie for not addressing the thing that it didn't do.

Plus, even if that was what happened to the city, the movie ends set literally minutes after the big battle. Unless you end up with a bootleg that just jumped right into the opening scene of AoU, what are we even talking about.
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby New York Cubs Fan » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:45 pm

Peak horsefeathering Derwood.

I'm literally cringing.
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Derwood » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:40 pm

New York Cubs Fan wrote:Peak horsefeathering Derwood.

I'm literally cringing.


Literally?
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby New York Cubs Fan » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:03 pm

Derwood wrote:
New York Cubs Fan wrote:Peak horsefeathering Derwood.

I'm literally cringing.


Literally?


Yes, like reading you in this thread has been so painful I was physically cringing and not just having the internal emotional reaction equivalent. It takes a lot to get that.
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Derwood » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:18 pm

New York Cubs Fan wrote:
Derwood wrote:
New York Cubs Fan wrote:Peak horsefeathering Derwood.

I'm literally cringing.


Literally?


Yes, like reading you in this thread has been so painful I was physically cringing and not just having the internal emotional reaction equivalent. It takes a lot to get that.


I think that says more about you than it does me, but whatever. Cringe away
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby abuck1220 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:44 pm

omg someone just tell him the extended director’s cut features a 20 minute in memoriam part where they scroll through a list of the 10,000 imaginary people that died so he’ll shut the horsefeathers up.
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:11 am

abuck1220 wrote:omg someone just tell him the extended director’s cut features a 20 minute in memoriam part where they scroll through a list of the 10,000 imaginary people that died so he’ll shut the horsefeathers up.


He's gonna be jacking it until he passes out during the first half hour of Endgame.
Last edited by Sammy Sofa on Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Movie Thread 2: The Sequel

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:15 am

*Cap goes to support group for survivors*

Image

*Ant-Man can't find that name at the memorial*

Image

*Lays eyes on Sad Hawkeye's mourning haircut*

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