The History Thread

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Re: The History Thread

Postby Stannis » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:22 pm

but why on earth would the Japanese keep that secret? It doesn't make sense.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:33 pm

Stannis wrote:but why on earth would the Japanese keep that secret? It doesn't make sense.


Yeah, this is pretty flimsy, even by current day-History Channel standards. Even the weird aliens guy is shaking his head at this one.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:42 pm

Stannis wrote:but why on earth would the Japanese keep that secret? It doesn't make sense.

it doesn't seem like they did, since the point is made that the US knew they had her.

But I could see it being something like this.

Japan gets her, the crazy ass mofos running their prison camps kill her. Japan has nothing to gain at this point in saying they have her so they stay quiet about it. US doesn't want to exacerbate pre-war tension by going hot and heavy after Japan to release her and once she's dead they don't want to let it be known they failed to save her.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:52 pm

I could see it being something like this: plane flying over the ocean crashes into the ocean.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:54 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:I could see it being something like this: plane flying over the ocean crashes into the ocean.

I mean, I guess something like that could happen.



But how do you explain a person with short hair with their back to the camera?


HOW ELSE CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT?
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Banedon » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:58 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Stannis wrote:but why on earth would the Japanese keep that secret? It doesn't make sense.


Yeah, this is pretty flimsy, even by current day-History Channel standards. Even the weird aliens guy is shaking his head at this one.


I watched the Atlantis Found show that History Channel did....man that was real, real dumb.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:03 pm

Oh, how we all thought it was hilarious when we called it the "Hitler Channel" since they seemingly showed nothing but WWII documentaries. Simpler times...
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:14 pm

Well, someone put out the OMC bat signal. Amelia Earhart is one of the things I nerded out over as a kid and I've kept up with all the new discoveries over the years. I subscribe to the Gardner Island hypothesis. She landed on that atoll and then died there as a castaway a few months later. There's an absolute ton of smoke out there. The preponderance of the evidence leads to Gardner Island IMO.

- Gardner Island is one of the only islands out there that was on her flight path.

- Various radar stations were still picking up signals from her, although mostly inaudible AFTER she would have run out of fuel. There's zero chance her radio equipment would have worked if she ditched in the ocean because the radio.

- These radio signals all triangulated on Gardner Island.

- The Coast Guard flew over Gardner Island two weeks after she went missing, but didn't see any evidence of her plane. However, they did note that there were recent signs of human habitation (walking trails, etc). Unfortunately, at the time they had no idea about who lived on any of these little islands. Thus, they didn't know that no one had lived on that island for 50 years.

- In 1940, when the British were prepping for WWII, they went and set up a radar station on that island. They found a set of bones at a campsite. Clearly a castaway. These bones were of a Caucasian female. They even noted at the time "I think we found Amelia Earhart". These bones were sent to Fiji where they were lost during WWII.

- Modern researchers have gone to where this campsite was and they've found: anti-freckle cream from the 1930's that Earhart was known to use, a piece of a pocket knife that was known to be in her plane's inventory, the mirror from a 1930's compact, and a box that used to contain a sextant of the same model that her navigator used.

I think this evidence is most striking. This was just released in the first of June and it comes in the form of a photograph that a passing ship took of the island about 3 months after she disappeared. It's a nice photo, which shows the wreck of a ship that beached on the island in the 1920's (these sailors were picked up the same day). At any rate, on the left side of the photo is a tiny speck. A high-res scan reveals an interesting object. Turns out this object looks exactly like a piece of landing gear from Earhart's unique Electra plane. Three different photo analysts from the US State Department have confirmed this. These forensics were authorized by Hillary Clinton years ago when she was Sec of State.

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Also, the island was later inhabited by colonists in the 1940's and a woman (many years before this picture was found) stated that when she was a child she was walking the beach with her father and he showed her pieces of a plane that was sometimes visible at low tide. This is where she marked the wreck, which is almost exactly where that object in the photograph is.

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Of course, it's easy to just say that she crashed into the ocean, which is more likely than any other theory, but like I said, there's a ton of smoke out there about Gardner Island.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:17 pm

So the plane crashed on an island instead of the ocean. Unless the ending is "plane swallowed up by an alien-engineered wormhole and was spit back out into the ground," it still seems like "the plane crashed" is about as anti-climatic and predictable as you can get when it comes to wondering what happened to a plane.

When I was a kid, I was obsessed with cool mysteries, like whether or not Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster teamed up with DB Cooper to take out JFK.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:24 pm

Stannis wrote:but why on earth would the Japanese keep that secret? It doesn't make sense.


Who knows, but there's always been lots of smoke about the "Captured by the Japanese" theory. Scores of local people on Saipan have said for years that they remember seeing her and Noonan and that it was common knowledge that a white man and a white woman were prisoners on the island. There are also statements from Japanese soldiers who served on the island stating that they knew she was there. Also, you've got several Marines who came out in later years that claimed to have found evidence of Earhart being there. For example, one marine wrote that he was ordered to guard a hangar by an officer and to not let anyone it at all, no matter their rank. He said that he had to stop several officers from coming in who were threatening to courts martial him. Years later, another marine, who would have had no idea about that guy's story, wrote that he drove a bunch of officers to a hangar and that these officers were all saying that Amelia Earhart's plane was in there. When they got to the hangar, he said that a marine was guarding the hangar and wouldn't let the officers in and that it got quite tense.

Nevertheless, that photograph is rather flimsy as far as ID'ing Earhart and Noonan. I do find it interesting that it shows that destroyer towing something about the size of the Elektra because the locals of the Marshall Islands have long since stated that they saw her plane being towed by that very same destroyer. So that matches up.

But I'd like to have actual evidence to back up a theory such as that. As I posted above, the Gardner Island theory has undeniable physical evidence that raises major eyebrows.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:25 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:So the plane crashed on an island instead of the ocean. Unless the ending is "plane swallowed up by an alien-engineered wormhole and was spit back out into the ground," it still seems like "the plane crashed" is about as anti-climatic and predictable as you can get when it comes to wondering what happened to a plane.


I believe it landed abruptly
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:30 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:So the plane crashed on an island instead of the ocean. Unless the ending is "plane swallowed up by an alien-engineered wormhole and was spit back out into the ground," it still seems like "the plane crashed" is about as anti-climatic and predictable as you can get when it comes to wondering what happened to a plane.


Well it's certainly not as dramatic as "she was enlisted as a spy by the Roosevelts, was captured by the Japanese, held on Saipan for 8 years, and was later executed as US troops began to land on the island".

Regardless of the actual outcome, one thing is certain and it's that she died an awful death. She either died crashing into the ocean, drowned in the ocean, was marooned and starved to death or eaten alive by crabs (seriously)* on an island, or was captured, spent years in a dank cell, and then shot and thrown in a shallow grave.

*Gardner Island is home to this rare breed of giant crab that are super aggressive and will sometimes attack people in swarms. It's something out of science-fiction or horror. This is one reason why that island is never inhabited for very long. If Earhart was weak from starvation and exposure, she probably wouldn't have had the strength to fend the crabs off.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:33 pm

OleMissCub wrote:*Gardner Island is home to this rare breed of giant crab that are super aggressive and will sometimes attack people in swarms. It's something out of science-fiction or horror. This is one reason why that island is never inhabited for very long. If Earhart was weak from starvation and exposure, she probably wouldn't have had the strength to fend the crabs off.


That takes this from Cutler-like levels of not caring to "OMG, YOU HAVE MY FULL ATTENTION." I am 110% on Team Giant Crab.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:33 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:So the plane crashed on an island instead of the ocean. Unless the ending is "plane swallowed up by an alien-engineered wormhole and was spit back out into the ground," it still seems like "the plane crashed" is about as anti-climatic and predictable as you can get when it comes to wondering what happened to a plane.


I believe it landed abruptly


fwiw, landing on an atoll isn't all that difficult and during WWII we told our pilots that in lieu of ditching in the ocean, try to find an atoll at low tide (Gardner Island was indeed at low tide when she would have hypothetically made her landing). Over the ages the tides have smoothed the top of these atolls out. As you can see in the picture of the island, it's got a very wide atoll.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Stannis » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:35 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Stannis wrote:but why on earth would the Japanese keep that secret? It doesn't make sense.

it doesn't seem like they did, since the point is made that the US knew they had her.

But I could see it being something like this.

Japan gets her, the crazy ass mofos running their prison camps kill her. Japan has nothing to gain at this point in saying they have her so they stay quiet about it. US doesn't want to exacerbate pre-war tension by going hot and heavy after Japan to release her and once she's dead they don't want to let it be known they failed to save her.


but it makes even less sense if the US knew about it. There was a little tension between the countries, but I'm sure an accord could have been reached to return Earhardt. Like the faked Moon-landing, that's a very large, unmanageable and pointless cover-up.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:35 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:*Gardner Island is home to this rare breed of giant crab that are super aggressive and will sometimes attack people in swarms. It's something out of science-fiction or horror. This is one reason why that island is never inhabited for very long. If Earhart was weak from starvation and exposure, she probably wouldn't have had the strength to fend the crabs off.


That takes this from Cutler-like levels of not caring to "OMG, YOU HAVE MY FULL ATTENTION." I am 110% on Team Giant Crab.


Yeah, this is why only half the body of whomever that person was that was found in 1940 was recovered and why the pieces that were found were spread out. Mufuggin Giant Crabs picked that person apart and carried pieces away.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Stannis » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:39 pm

Plus, people making claims that "this TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTALLY changes history!" usually turn out to be hyperbolic crackpots who need their credentials checked.

Even if the claims are true, it literally only changes 3rd-grade history and that's it.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Banedon » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:40 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:*Gardner Island is home to this rare breed of giant crab that are super aggressive and will sometimes attack people in swarms. It's something out of science-fiction or horror. This is one reason why that island is never inhabited for very long. If Earhart was weak from starvation and exposure, she probably wouldn't have had the strength to fend the crabs off.


That takes this from Cutler-like levels of not caring to "OMG, YOU HAVE MY FULL ATTENTION." I am 110% on Team Giant Crab.


Every time I play a game where at level 1 you have to kill like 10 crabs with your wooden sword, I'm gonna shout "This is for Amelia!" with each killing blow.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:41 pm

Stannis wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Stannis wrote:but why on earth would the Japanese keep that secret? It doesn't make sense.

it doesn't seem like they did, since the point is made that the US knew they had her.

But I could see it being something like this.

Japan gets her, the crazy ass mofos running their prison camps kill her. Japan has nothing to gain at this point in saying they have her so they stay quiet about it. US doesn't want to exacerbate pre-war tension by going hot and heavy after Japan to release her and once she's dead they don't want to let it be known they failed to save her.


but it makes even less sense if the US knew about it. There was a little tension between the countries, but I'm sure an accord could have been reached to return Earhardt. Like the faked Moon-landing, that's a very large, unmanageable and pointless cover-up.


Yeah, if they just didn't find her, fine, but the idea that either or both governments knew and have been pointlessly staying mum on it this far after the fact makes no sense.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:42 pm

Stannis wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Stannis wrote:but why on earth would the Japanese keep that secret? It doesn't make sense.

it doesn't seem like they did, since the point is made that the US knew they had her.

But I could see it being something like this.

Japan gets her, the crazy ass mofos running their prison camps kill her. Japan has nothing to gain at this point in saying they have her so they stay quiet about it. US doesn't want to exacerbate pre-war tension by going hot and heavy after Japan to release her and once she's dead they don't want to let it be known they failed to save her.


but it makes even less sense if the US knew about it. There was a little tension between the countries, but I'm sure an accord could have been reached to return Earhardt. Like the faked Moon-landing, that's a very large, unmanageable and pointless cover-up.


Indeed. Some supporters of this theory suggest that they wanted her plane because they wanted the technology of the Elektra. However, the Japanese could have just purchased an Elektra plane if they wanted to. Oh, what's that? That's right, they DID purchase one several years before Earhart.

The basic theory goes like this: Earhart and her husband, G.P. Putnam, were good friends with the Roosevelts. So when it came time for her to do her flight, the Roosevelts asked if she would allow cameras to be installed to the underbelly of the plane when she stopped in Australia. Reason for this being that we knew that war with Japan was coming and we had no idea what the topography of any of those islands out there looked like, and so they wanted her to fly over them. So when the Japanese recovered her plane, they found the spy cameras and this is what set them off and why they didn't tell anyone about Earhart. There's actually a pretty well known and respected pilot in Australia who came out a few years ago and said that it was a real bitch to get those cameras installed into her plane.

Incidentally, the Coast Guard's two weeks search for Earhart did indeed provide lots and lots of information on these islands since we flew over them and took tons of pictures. The "Japanese theory" supporters claim that we knew that she had been captured and just used the search as a pretext to get some intel on that are of the world.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:45 pm

Banedon wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:*Gardner Island is home to this rare breed of giant crab that are super aggressive and will sometimes attack people in swarms. It's something out of science-fiction or horror. This is one reason why that island is never inhabited for very long. If Earhart was weak from starvation and exposure, she probably wouldn't have had the strength to fend the crabs off.


That takes this from Cutler-like levels of not caring to "OMG, YOU HAVE MY FULL ATTENTION." I am 110% on Team Giant Crab.


Every time I play a game where at level 1 you have to kill like 10 crabs with your wooden sword, I'm gonna shout "This is for Amelia!" with each killing blow.


The Japanese (monster) just wanted to help!

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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:47 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
Stannis wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:it doesn't seem like they did, since the point is made that the US knew they had her.

But I could see it being something like this.

Japan gets her, the crazy ass mofos running their prison camps kill her. Japan has nothing to gain at this point in saying they have her so they stay quiet about it. US doesn't want to exacerbate pre-war tension by going hot and heavy after Japan to release her and once she's dead they don't want to let it be known they failed to save her.


but it makes even less sense if the US knew about it. There was a little tension between the countries, but I'm sure an accord could have been reached to return Earhardt. Like the faked Moon-landing, that's a very large, unmanageable and pointless cover-up.


Indeed. Some supporters of this theory suggest that they wanted her plane because they wanted the technology of the Elektra. However, the Japanese could have just purchased an Elektra plane if they wanted to. Oh, what's that? That's right, they DID purchase one several years before Earhart.

The basic theory goes like this: Earhart and her husband, G.P. Putnam, were good friends with the Roosevelts. So when it came time for her to do her flight, the Roosevelts asked if she would allow cameras to be installed to the underbelly of the plane when she stopped in Australia. Reason for this being that we knew that war with Japan was coming and we had no idea what the topography of any of those islands out there looked like, and so they wanted her to fly over them. So when the Japanese recovered her plane, they found the spy cameras and this is what set them off and why they didn't tell anyone about Earhart. There's actually a pretty well known and respected pilot in Australia who came out a few years ago and said that it was a real bitch to get those cameras installed into her plane.

Incidentally, the Coast Guard's two weeks search for Earhart did indeed provide lots and lots of information on these islands since we flew over them and took tons of pictures. The "Japanese theory" supporters claim that we knew that she had been captured and just used the search as a pretext to get some intel on that are of the world.


None of that explains why it would be pointlessly kept secret for the next 70 years after the war.

Also: the movie Amelia is, like, hilariously terrible.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:50 pm

For scale, here's one of them with a coconut

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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:51 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
None of that explains why it would be pointlessly kept secret for the next 70 years after the war.

Also: the movie Amelia is, like, hilariously terrible.


That's one that I'm happy I missed. Hillary Swank does seem like the perfect person to play her, but every review I read said it was just awful.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:51 pm

Banedon wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:*Gardner Island is home to this rare breed of giant crab that are super aggressive and will sometimes attack people in swarms. It's something out of science-fiction or horror. This is one reason why that island is never inhabited for very long. If Earhart was weak from starvation and exposure, she probably wouldn't have had the strength to fend the crabs off.


That takes this from Cutler-like levels of not caring to "OMG, YOU HAVE MY FULL ATTENTION." I am 110% on Team Giant Crab.


Every time I play a game where at level 1 you have to kill like 10 crabs with your wooden sword, I'm gonna shout "This is for Amelia!" with each killing blow.


I started the original Sonic the Hedgehog for the millionth time last week, now I feel like I have an obligation to finish it just to get revenge on these guys.

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