The History Thread

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Re: The History Thread

Postby Stannis » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:53 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
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jersey cubs fan wrote:it doesn't seem like they did, since the point is made that the US knew they had her.

But I could see it being something like this.

Japan gets her, the crazy ass mofos running their prison camps kill her. Japan has nothing to gain at this point in saying they have her so they stay quiet about it. US doesn't want to exacerbate pre-war tension by going hot and heavy after Japan to release her and once she's dead they don't want to let it be known they failed to save her.


but it makes even less sense if the US knew about it. There was a little tension between the countries, but I'm sure an accord could have been reached to return Earhardt. Like the faked Moon-landing, that's a very large, unmanageable and pointless cover-up.


Indeed. Some supporters of this theory suggest that they wanted her plane because they wanted the technology of the Elektra. However, the Japanese could have just purchased an Elektra plane if they wanted to. Oh, what's that? That's right, they DID purchase one several years before Earhart.

The basic theory goes like this: Earhart and her husband, G.P. Putnam, were good friends with the Roosevelts. So when it came time for her to do her flight, the Roosevelts asked if she would allow cameras to be installed to the underbelly of the plane when she stopped in Australia. Reason for this being that we knew that war with Japan was coming and we had no idea what the topography of any of those islands out there looked like, and so they wanted her to fly over them. So when the Japanese recovered her plane, they found the spy cameras and this is what set them off and why they didn't tell anyone about Earhart. There's actually a pretty well known and respected pilot in Australia who came out a few years ago and said that it was a real bitch to get those cameras installed into her plane.

Incidentally, the Coast Guard's two weeks search for Earhart did indeed provide lots and lots of information on these islands since we flew over them and took tons of pictures. The "Japanese theory" supporters claim that we knew that she had been captured and just used the search as a pretext to get some intel on that are of the world.


I don't doubt that there may have been some cameras mounted on the plane, but the rest of the theory kind of falls apart after that.

Why didn't the Japanese negotiate her return after everyone came snooping around the atolls and islands looking for her?

I mean, we can ask Trump to declassify all of the government cover-ups throughout history, he seems like the type of guy who would talk about them.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:55 pm

Stannis wrote:
Why didn't the Japanese negotiate her return after everyone came snooping around the atolls and islands looking for her?

because they killed her too soon?
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Stannis » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:56 pm

"We had no idea who she was and assumed she was a spy. We don't even speak very good english and we have very small penises (so small), this disgusted her and she asked us to return her to the land of enormous penises."

I mean, that's all it would have taken for the Japanese to save face.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:56 pm

Had she lived 30 more years her voice probably would have been sounding like Lucille Ball did near the end.

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Re: The History Thread

Postby Stannis » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:57 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Stannis wrote:
Why didn't the Japanese negotiate her return after everyone came snooping around the atolls and islands looking for her?

because they killed her too soon?


but the story says she died in a prison cell in 1939 of malaria or some such tropical disease we all imagine kills the majority of people in those locales.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:00 pm

Stannis wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Stannis wrote:
Why didn't the Japanese negotiate her return after everyone came snooping around the atolls and islands looking for her?

because they killed her too soon?


but the story says she died in a prison cell in 1939 of malaria or some such tropical disease we all imagine kills the majority of people in those locales.

an officer probably took her as a lover and she stumbled across plans for pearl harbor in his desk and they couldn't let her go after that
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Stannis » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:02 pm

tell me more about that, that sounds pretty good.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:05 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Stannis wrote:
Why didn't the Japanese negotiate her return after everyone came snooping around the atolls and islands looking for her?

because they killed her too soon?


The theory is that they kept her and Noonan for years in this tiny 4 cell prison. Noonan died at some point in the early 40's and Earhart was executed just prior to the US invasion in 1944. Maybe I'm mixing up details, but I believe there was a Japanese officer who later claimed that he led the detail that shot her. He said they drove her out to a field where a grave had been dug, they asked her to kneel, she didn't, and so they just shot her.

The proponents of the Japanese theory also point to a letter or diary entry from a US Marine who claims that when they were on Saipan he came across a safe. Thinking that he was going to be a "rich Marine", he got a buddy of his that did demolitions and they blew it open. He was pissed when there was no money in it, but he said he did see a briefcase. In that briefcase was Earhart and Noonan's passports and visas. He remarked that he was surprised they weren't waterlogged at all because he always figured that she crashed into the ocean. During WWII, any spoils of war that you found and wanted to keep, you could take to your company's quartermaster. You'd give the pistol, flag, or bayonet or whatever to them and they'd give you a ticket for it that you could use to recover your loot once you made it back to base camp. This marine said that he gave the briefcase to his quartermaster, got a ticket, but when he tried to retrieve it a few months later it was missing.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:06 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:an officer probably took her as a lover


the Japanese didn't have female officers
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Re: The History Thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:08 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:an officer probably took her as a lover


the Japanese didn't have female officers

a good spy learns to play for both teams
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Stannis » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:09 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Stannis wrote:
Why didn't the Japanese negotiate her return after everyone came snooping around the atolls and islands looking for her?

because they killed her too soon?


The theory is that they kept her and Noonan for years in this tiny 4 cell prison. Noonan died at some point in the early 40's and Earhart was executed just prior to the US invasion in 1944. Maybe I'm mixing up details, but I believe there was a Japanese officer who later claimed that he led the detail that shot her. He said they drove her out to a field where a grave had been dug, they asked her to kneel, she didn't, and so they just shot her.

The proponents of the Japanese theory also point to a letter or diary entry from a US Marine who claims that when they were on Saipan he came across a safe. Thinking that he was going to be a "rich Marine", he got a buddy of his that did demolitions and they blew it open. He was pissed when there was no money in it, but he said he did see a briefcase. In that briefcase was Earhart and Noonan's passports and visas. He remarked that he was surprised they weren't waterlogged at all because he always figured that she crashed into the ocean. During WWII, any spoils of war that you found and wanted to keep, you could take to your company's quartermaster. You'd give the pistol, flag, or bayonet or whatever to them and they'd give you a ticket for it that you could use to recover your loot once you made it back to base camp. This marine said that he gave the briefcase to his quartermaster, got a ticket, but when he tried to retrieve it a few months later it was missing.


you know way too much about this not to believe it. stop testing the waters for acceptance and just come out and say it. hell, like i did with sublime and cancer.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:13 pm

[expletive], stop peddling this flimflam. There's zero reason that this would have stayed covered up over the last 70 years. None.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:19 pm

Stannis wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:because they killed her too soon?


The theory is that they kept her and Noonan for years in this tiny 4 cell prison. Noonan died at some point in the early 40's and Earhart was executed just prior to the US invasion in 1944. Maybe I'm mixing up details, but I believe there was a Japanese officer who later claimed that he led the detail that shot her. He said they drove her out to a field where a grave had been dug, they asked her to kneel, she didn't, and so they just shot her.

The proponents of the Japanese theory also point to a letter or diary entry from a US Marine who claims that when they were on Saipan he came across a safe. Thinking that he was going to be a "rich Marine", he got a buddy of his that did demolitions and they blew it open. He was pissed when there was no money in it, but he said he did see a briefcase. In that briefcase was Earhart and Noonan's passports and visas. He remarked that he was surprised they weren't waterlogged at all because he always figured that she crashed into the ocean. During WWII, any spoils of war that you found and wanted to keep, you could take to your company's quartermaster. You'd give the pistol, flag, or bayonet or whatever to them and they'd give you a ticket for it that you could use to recover your loot once you made it back to base camp. This marine said that he gave the briefcase to his quartermaster, got a ticket, but when he tried to retrieve it a few months later it was missing.


you know way too much about this not to believe it. stop testing the waters for acceptance and just come out and say it. hell, like i did with sublime and cancer.


Nah, I don't believe it at the current time. I'm just recounting the eyewitness accounts that people use to support this theory. I watched a video about the theory a week or so ago on YouTube that has these interviews and all that. Like I said earlier, I'd be willing to put more weight into the theory if there was any actual physical evidence that could be found.

I'm very invested in the Gardner Island theory because there's actual evidence used to support it. Humans love to lie and that's why, without evidence, I can't believe in the Japanese theory at the present time. Eyewitness testimony just isn't enough.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:21 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:[expletive], stop peddling this flimflam. There's zero reason that this would have stayed covered up over the last 70 years. None.


Correct. During that clip that was attached to the news article, it seems like the people on History Channel are going to try to explain away your issue by saying that "the files were destroyed" or whatever.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Derwood » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:06 pm

I had to fight off hyper-aggressive crabs once




But enough about my sophomore year
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:03 pm

Another crucial issue with this theory is just how far apart these places are. I'm interested to see how they are going to explain that. Jaluit Atoll is over 1,000 miles in the wrong direction of Howland Island (where she was heading). There's also zero chance she would have been able to make it there on the fuel that she had left.

My terrible MS Paint job shows where she took off from in orange (New Guinea) and has Howland Island circled in red, Gardner Island in green, and Jaluit Atoll in yellow. Noonan was a pretty good navigator and so it's pretty hard to believe that they'd be THAT off course. That would literally be like taking off from New Orleans and ending up in Denver instead of Chicago.

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Re: The History Thread

Postby Banedon » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:40 am

OleMissCub wrote:Another crucial issue with this theory is just how far apart these places are. I'm interested to see how they are going to explain that. Jaluit Atoll is over 1,000 miles in the wrong direction of Howland Island (where she was heading). There's also zero chance she would have been able to make it there on the fuel that she had left.

My terrible MS Paint job shows where she took off from in orange (New Guinea) and has Howland Island circled in red, Gardner Island in green, and Jaluit Atoll in yellow. Noonan was a pretty good navigator and so it's pretty hard to believe that they'd be THAT off course. That would literally be like taking off from New Orleans and ending up in Denver instead of Chicago.


*Puts on tin foil hat*

Unless they were specifically asked to fly over and take pics of Jaluit Atoll or something else in that direction/nearby?
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:50 pm

Banedon wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:Another crucial issue with this theory is just how far apart these places are. I'm interested to see how they are going to explain that. Jaluit Atoll is over 1,000 miles in the wrong direction of Howland Island (where she was heading). There's also zero chance she would have been able to make it there on the fuel that she had left.

My terrible MS Paint job shows where she took off from in orange (New Guinea) and has Howland Island circled in red, Gardner Island in green, and Jaluit Atoll in yellow. Noonan was a pretty good navigator and so it's pretty hard to believe that they'd be THAT off course. That would literally be like taking off from New Orleans and ending up in Denver instead of Chicago.


*Puts on tin foil hat*

Unless they were specifically asked to fly over and take pics of Jaluit Atoll or something else in that direction/nearby?


Yes, I suspect that will be their explanation for her being 1,000 miles off course. Unfortunately for them, I don't think that holds up to scrutiny because every step of her journey was highly publicized internationally. It was widely reported that she had two more stops before she arrived in Oakland after taking off from New Guinea: Howland Island and Hawaii. She was going to stop briefly at Howland Island to refuel. The US Navy was waiting there for her. If she had arrived in Oakland as planned, but not stopped at Howland, I think that would have gotten out. Some sailors would have talked about it.

Also, her radio transmissions, where she was stating that she couldn't find Howland Island because of low cloud cover, were being picked up by multiple listening stations from multiple countries. These transmissions still exist and can be triangulated and they show that she was in the vicinity of Howland. Again, it'd be like if everyone was able triangulate a radio signal as coming from Chicago, but that person was actually in Denver. That's damn near impossible.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Banedon » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:12 pm

History Channel has another show on Tuesday theorizing that Jack the Ripper and H.H. Holmes were same person.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:38 pm

Banedon wrote:History Channel has another show on Tuesday theorizing that Jack the Ripper and H.H. Holmes were same person.


I guess I'd prefer a crazy history theory documentary over Ice Road Truckers or Pawn Stars.

"Newly found photo proving X" seems to be a trend in documentaries lately. You've got this Earhart thing, a Billy the Kid one (although I think that one had a lot of validity), and a Titanic one from last year. That Titanic one was especially stupid. Guy claimed that the coal fire on the Titanic was worse than it actually was and that among the last photographs taken of the Titanic you can see hull damage due to the fire. It took all of two seconds to debunk that. All it took was looking at other photos taken on that day which don't show an anomaly on the hull. So clearly the "dark spot" this guy thought was fire damage was just a smudge on the camera lens. But hey whatever, he got his name in the New York Times and had a documentary made about it.

Incidentally, it was that coal fire that kept the Titanic from capsizing after about an hour and saved countless lives. The Titanic was one of the only large ships in history that sank without capsizing and it was because of that fire.

The day the ship departed, a fire started in one of the coal bunkers of the ship. Because it was impractical to put out this fire and because it wasn't that large of a fire anyways, they decided to let it burn out on its own. On a ship such as the Titanic, the coal is extremely heavy and must be balanced throughout the full length of the ship to keep the ship balanced properly. However, because of the fire they had to move all of the coal out of that bunker to another bunker elsewhere on the ship. This caused the ship to have a list to port throughout the journey of about 3 degrees. That's not crazy noticeable, but if you had put a marble on the deck it would have rolled to port. This list is what kept the Titanic from capsizing. We know this because a few years ago, Naval engineers were doing a highly scientific study on the sinking of the Titanic. Using their high tech equipment, their computer simulations kept having the Titanic capsizing about an hour into the sinking. It was only then that a Titanic historian that was working with them informed them about the 3 degree list to port. Once they entered that into the simulation, it sank exactly as it did.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:45 pm

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017 ... here-died/

Four bone-sniffing dogs that were brought to this remote Pacific island to search for traces of Amelia Earhart have identified a spot where the pioneering aviator may have died 80 years ago.


Teams have been digging for the past 15 years on a remote part of Gardner Island called the "Seven Site". They've been digging there because they think it matches the description of a location described by the people who found a white female's bones in 1940. The Seven Site is where they've found the 1930's anti-freckle cream, the makeup, the 1930's mirror from a female compact, etc. So now these dogs are confirming that the Seven Site likely is the place where the body was found in 1940. So that's a pretty big break through because you now have a pretty good correlation between this campsite and human death.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:36 am

I'll admit, that's some pretty compelling stuff. Couple of thoughts:

- I'm glad they didn't go with the "she was an actual spy" angle. That has always seemed ridiculous to me.

- The eyewitnesses seemed reliable and their stories were all consistent with each other (damage to Fred's knees, for example). In pre-internet times and especially among villagers from various locations, having a story with consistent minor details is pretty strong. Especially with the Micronesian villager who said that he saw her land the plane on Mili. This man lived and died never even knowing who Earhart was. So why would he have ever thought to make up a story of a woman pilot and a man landing a plane near him?

- I'm not convinced about the airplane debris. As the guy said, the Pacific is the ocean's trash can. However, those moving cart wheels have no business on that tiny speck of an island.

- I still don't think the photo is authentic.

- I wasn't aware that she had a backup plan to return to the Gilbert Islands. If she was indeed blown northward, then turning back toward the Gilberts would have put her right in the Marshalls. That was pretty compelling.

- I found the account of the house wife hearing on the radio "Mili Atoll" to be very interesting. How in the world would a woman from Kentucky in 1937 know anything about Mili Atoll?

However, my biggest problem with that theory remains: Why would the Japanese think she was a spy? They knew very well who Amelia Earhart was. She was literally the most famous woman on the planet. What would be the point of doing all that to her? During a time of rising tensions, you'd think they'd want to score some points with the US by rescuing Earhart.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:30 pm

El Oh El

That photo was first featured in a 1935 Japanese Travel book.

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Re: The History Thread

Postby Banedon » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:37 am

OleMissCub wrote:El Oh El

That photo was first featured in a 1935 Japanese Travel book.


Ha! So it's authentic, but not really as "oooh this should have been classified" as they presented.

I just finished the show last night. My biggest problem with it was the fakey history channel "style" of the whole thing. Like you said, they had some interesting stuff to talk about, and interesting people to talk to...why present it in that way?
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Re: The History Thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:39 pm

OleMissCub wrote:El Oh El

That photo was first featured in a 1935 Japanese Travel book.


So she was a spy, FOR THE JAPANESE!
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