The History Thread

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Re: The History Thread

Postby Banedon » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:50 pm

Banedon wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:El Oh El

That photo was first featured in a 1935 Japanese Travel book.


Ha! So it's authentic, but not really as "oooh this should have been classified" as they presented.


Oh geez, I wasn't paying attention to the date you mentioned...rofl.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:54 pm

Banedon wrote:
I just finished the show last night. My biggest problem with it was the fakey history channel "style" of the whole thing. Like you said, they had some interesting stuff to talk about, and interesting people to talk to...why present it in that way?


Yeah, I'm so freaking sick of this style of documentary.

"What's that!!?
"Oh my god!"
*cuts to commercial break*

It's just so artificial. This documentary had a lot of good information in it. No need to make it so dramatic. I mean, maybe it's been market tested or something that this style of documentary is the only type of history documentary that a good chunk of idiot Americans will pay attention to, but man it's just so artificial. I think back on "In Search Of" and how it didn't have any of this type of faux-drama, yet is a GOAT documentary show.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:56 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:El Oh El

That photo was first featured in a 1935 Japanese Travel book.


So she was a spy, FOR THE JAPANESE!


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Now let's put this silly, boring thing behind us and never speak of it again.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Stannis » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:59 pm

Will Bubba Red Hankerson and his merry band of social outsider gun nuts actually find Swamp Ape?
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:14 pm

Stannis wrote:Will Bubba Red Hankerson and his merry band of social outsider gun nuts actually find Swamp Ape?


They already have

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Re: The History Thread

Postby Banedon » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:18 pm

I am looking forward to the HH Holmes/Jack the Ripper thing tomorrow night...even though I know it's gonna be that same style.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:26 pm

Banedon wrote:I am looking forward to the HH Holmes/Jack the Ripper thing tomorrow night...even though I know it's gonna be that same style.


If Jack the Ripper was one serial killer, then why can't he be ALL serial killers?

Think about it.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Stannis » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:48 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Banedon wrote:I am looking forward to the HH Holmes/Jack the Ripper thing tomorrow night...even though I know it's gonna be that same style.


If Jack the Ripper was one serial killer, then why can't he be ALL serial killers?

Think about it.


I like that Leather Apron guy for the killings. I like that his name is an odd item of clothing.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Banedon » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:03 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Banedon wrote:I am looking forward to the HH Holmes/Jack the Ripper thing tomorrow night...even though I know it's gonna be that same style.


If Jack the Ripper was one serial killer, then why can't he be ALL serial killers?

Think about it.


Can you PROVE that he's not also Sweeney Todd?
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:39 pm

Stannis wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Banedon wrote:I am looking forward to the HH Holmes/Jack the Ripper thing tomorrow night...even though I know it's gonna be that same style.


If Jack the Ripper was one serial killer, then why can't he be ALL serial killers?

Think about it.


I like that Leather Apron guy for the killings. I like that his name is an odd item of clothing.


He's a terrible pitcher, though.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Banedon » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:51 pm

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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:32 pm

Banedon wrote:https://twitter.com/Ourand_SBJ/status/884815797713084418


Like we've said, there was really a lot of good information in there, so it's unfortunate that the one thing they publicized so dramatically was discredited immediately. In a sense, it discredits the rest of the documentary.

If the internet and news media were going to freak out over a photo relating to Amelia Earhart, they need to freak out over the so-called "Bevington Object", which shows quite clearly an Electra landing gear wheel, or something extraordinarily similar to it, stuck in a reef on Gardner Island in October 1937, just 3 months after her disappearance.

The State Department was so intrigued by it that they got involved and three different photo analysts within the State Department stated with near certainty that the object is an Electra landing gear. There's zero conceivable reason that should be there on a tiny deserted island other than it being a piece of Earhart's plane. The Electra model was only two years old at that point and hers was almost certainly the only one to fly within 3,000 miles of that place at that time and unquestionably was the only one that had crashed in the Pacific up to that point.

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The thought is that it popped off during the rough landing. Electra gear were prone to do this. They had a design flaw that wasn't corrected until later models. In fact, Amelia herself had an issue with this wheel coming off during an incident in Hawaii:

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So the obvious thing to do is just go to where that object was pictured and search around the sea floor with submersibles to find some wreckage where her plane would have gotten washed off the reef (which they suspect would have occurred in just a few days). Unfortunately, the last two expeditions that have gone out to that location with submersibles have been totally stymied by the fact that A) after like 150 yards, the reef drops off into an abyss that goes down to like 17,000 feet, which is deeper than Titanic, and B) the underwater reef before the drop is so jagged and has so many tunnels and passages that getting submersibles to snoop around in there is almost impossible.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:40 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
If the internet and news media were going to freak out over a photo relating to Amelia Earhart, they need to freak out over the so-called "Bevington Object", which shows quite clearly an Electra landing gear wheel, or something extraordinarily similar to it,

Image


While I'm sure some photo analysts might be able to come to some interesting conclusions, there is nothing at all compelling in that photo to draw interest from the masses.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Banedon » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:41 pm

And why on earth is that picture so terrible? Is it a blown up section of a larger photo that wasn't focused on that object?
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Re: The History Thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:43 pm

Banedon wrote:And why on earth is that picture so terrible? Is it a blown up section of a larger photo that wasn't focused on that object?

yes, it is

omc showed us earlier, try and keep up

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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:45 pm

I don't think "quite clearly" means whatever the horsefeathers you apparently think it means.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:00 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:I don't think "quite clearly" means whatever the horsefeathers you apparently think it means.


I see what looks to be a circular tire that has deflated, a strut, bowl gear, and a fender all in the correct configuration for an Electra landing gear, which were quite unique at that time.

A Lockheed Model 10 Electra was a big deal back then in aviation because it was the first twin engine commercial aircraft that was able to fly any sorta of long distance. Thus, everything about it, including its landing gear, were a big innovation for that time and therefore were quite distinct. If that photo was taken in the 1940's during the war, well then it'd be interesting because of where it is, but it wouldn't be a revelation. Any airplane landing gear, much less one that looks just like the high-tech (for its time) Electra gear, has ZERO business being anywhere near that island in October 1937. In fact, her airplane was the first land based plane to venture anywhere into the Deep Pacific in history.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:02 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Banedon wrote:And why on earth is that picture so terrible? Is it a blown up section of a larger photo that wasn't focused on that object?

yes, it is

omc showed us earlier, try and keep up

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That original photo is like 2 inches by 1 inch. It's extraordinarily small and is in the British Archives. They had to use a crazy high-res scanner to get anything off of it.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:10 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I don't think "quite clearly" means whatever the horsefeathers you apparently think it means.


I see what looks to be a circular tire that has deflated, a strut, bowl gear, and a fender all in the correct configuration for an Electra landing gear, which were quite unique at that time.

A Lockheed Model 10 Electra was a big deal back then in aviation because it was the first twin engine commercial aircraft that was able to fly any sorta of long distance. Thus, everything about it, including its landing gear, were a big innovation for that time and therefore were quite distinct. If that photo was taken in the 1940's during the war, well then it'd be interesting because of where it is, but it wouldn't be a revelation. Any airplane landing gear, much less one that looks just like the high-tech (for its time) Electra gear, has ZERO business being anywhere near that island in October 1937. In fact, her airplane was the first land based plane to venture anywhere into the Deep Pacific in history.


Image

It looks like nothing. People are seeing what they want to see.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:14 pm

This is like those dopes that have basically stripped this photo down to nothing in the desperate hope of seeing something that isn't there:

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There's only so much information you can dig out of these cruddy old photos, yet you've got people thinking you just keep hitting the "enhance" button until they find something. The odds that that isn't just a photo effect or defect and is actually THE horsefeathering WHEEL OF AMELIA EARHART'S PLANE are so astronomically tiny to be all but impossible.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:22 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:There's only so much information you can dig out of these cruddy old photos, yet you've got people thinking you just keep hitting the "enhance" button until they find something. The odds that that isn't just a photo effect or defect and is actually THE horsefeathering WHEEL OF AMELIA EARHART'S PLANE are so astronomically tiny to be all but impossible.


Well the State Department thought otherwise and decided to put resources into it and once their research was done, they were so convinced by it that they held a luncheon in DC to discuss the findings that was attended by Secretary Clinton, Bob Ballard, the President of Kiribati, and numerous other dignitaries. I guess it didn't get more press back in 2012 because they didn't run to Good Morning America or the Today Show with it and make a silly documentary about it. Instead, they did the proper thing which was to start researching that area with submersibles.

Photo defect? C'mon. If you don't see all the curves and right angles that are obviously not a naturally occurring phenomenon and isn't a freaking photo smudge, then you're just being belligerent for the sake of being belligerent.

And the odds aren't astronomical when you consider where the object is located and when that photo was taken. Gardner Island has long since been thought of as a place where she could have landed since it's the only other island that is on the flight path of her last given coordinates. Further, just three years later, you've got the British finding the bones of a freaking female at what was once a castaway's campsite (evidence of a fire, artifacts leftover, etc). Plus you've got one of the only villagers who ever lived there pointing to a spot on a map where, as a child in the 1950's, they used to find bits of metal and aluminum embedded into the reef. That spot that she marked on a map happened to be precisely where the Bevington Object was pictured. She made that identification on a map years before that photo was discovered.

It's likely the strongest circumstantial evidence ever found in the Amelia Earhart mystery.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:54 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:There's only so much information you can dig out of these cruddy old photos, yet you've got people thinking you just keep hitting the "enhance" button until they find something. The odds that that isn't just a photo effect or defect and is actually THE horsefeathering WHEEL OF AMELIA EARHART'S PLANE are so astronomically tiny to be all but impossible.


Well the State Department thought otherwise and decided to put resources into it and once their research was done, they were so convinced by it that they held a luncheon in DC to discuss the findings that was attended by Secretary Clinton, Bob Ballard, the President of Kiribati, and numerous other dignitaries. I guess it didn't get more press back in 2012 because they didn't run to Good Morning America or the Today Show with it and make a silly documentary about it. Instead, they did the proper thing which was to start researching that area with submersibles.

Photo defect? C'mon. If you don't see all the curves and right angles that are obviously not a naturally occurring phenomenon and isn't a freaking photo smudge, then you're just being belligerent for the sake of being belligerent.

And the odds aren't astronomical when you consider where the object is located and when that photo was taken. Gardner Island has long since been thought of as a place where she could have landed since it's the only other island that is on the flight path of her last given coordinates. Further, just three years later, you've got the British finding the bones of a freaking female at what was once a castaway's campsite (evidence of a fire, artifacts leftover, etc). Plus you've got one of the only villagers who ever lived there pointing to a spot on a map where, as a child in the 1950's, they used to find bits of metal and aluminum embedded into the reef. That spot that she marked on a map happened to be precisely where the Bevington Object was pictured. She made that identification on a map years before that photo was discovered.

It's likely the strongest circumstantial evidence ever found in the Amelia Earhart mystery.


It's nothing; the bold part means bupkis. It's the kind of idle DC PR schmoozing that happens a trillion times over here; you glom your name to some social or historical cause that won't have any blowback and move on. Pretty much anything Amelia Earhart-related would be right in the wheelhouse; being seen at a luncheon is literally the least someone can do for a historical figure with positive name recognition, so acting like that holds some kind of weight in terms of the photo's legitimacy is a gigantic reach. I'll just say my job has a TON of crossover with those sorts of events and leave it at that.

Also: Clinton was there because she was Secretary of State at the time and, again, an Amelia Earhart puff piece was, wisely, right up her alley. The State Department also gives out an annual Amelia Earhart fellowship, too. The State Department really didn't do much of anything besides doing a once over on that Gillespie's guy's summary conclusions; they mainly just saw it as a harmless PR piece. Here's a good breakdown of what all of that was:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/re ... _blog.html

The Secretary of State headlined the event to publicize an expedition this summer by researchers from The International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery (TIGHAR), who believe they’ll find Earhart’s plane in the ocean off a remote island in the Pacific nation of Kiribati.

How did Clinton get involved? She’s long been a fan of Earhart’s — as are so many women of her generation — and learned about this effort from staffers at the state department, who’ve worked with TIGHAR founder Ric Gillespie for more than 20 years. Gillespie told us those staffers reviewed his latest evidence and believe he’s on to something. “They got excited — and I have been astounded,” he said.


July’s privately funded expedition, filmed as a documentary by the Discovery Channel and advised by “Titanic” discoverer Bob Ballard, will use underwater submarines and equipment to look for the wreckage in a few square miles off the island’s reef. “I’m quite sure it’s there,” said Gillespie.


So it's disingenuous as hell to act like this was any kind of an investigation by the State Department.

Here, let's use the the JFK assassination again: the House Select Committee investigation the 70's (and actual government investigation) thought they had changed everything when independent research (which was then checked by government investigators) seemingly showed ironclad audio proof that at least 4 shots were fired in Dealey Plaza that day. They completely changed their findings to say that they had found proof that it must have been a conspiracy. Well, turns out they were completely wrong, but they got caught up in the moment, as these things typically do. That blurry dot in the photo is never going to be anything but a blurry dot in the photo. To act like it's some kind of slam dunk is silly and junk history; an actual photo technician worth a damn will readily tell you there's only so much you can pull from a photo, and there's nothing salvageable from that one. People are only going to see whatever they want to see because it can be whatever they want and they can't be wrong.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:58 pm

I never claimed that the expeditions were funded by the Government. I said that the photo analysis was done by them.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:05 pm

OleMissCub wrote:I never claimed that the expeditions were funded by the Government. I said that the photo analysis was done by them.


Well the State Department thought otherwise and decided to put resources into it and once their research was done, they were so convinced by it that they held a luncheon in DC to discuss the findings that was attended by Secretary Clinton, Bob Ballard, the President of Kiribati, and numerous other dignitaries. I guess it didn't get more press back in 2012 because they didn't run to Good Morning America or the Today Show with it and make a silly documentary about it. Instead, they did the proper thing which was to start researching that area with submersibles.


Also:



Womp-womp.

The SD didn't find anything the independent guys didn't already claim in their own analysis of the photo; they just said it could be the wheel. The "enhance" button was on the fritz that day, homie.

Boy, it sure seems like a lot of people think this Gillespie guy is pretty shady, too.
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Re: The History Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:17 pm

He found a finger bone! Welllllll, it's actually inconclusive if it's even from a human or a turtle.

He found aluminum that could come from her plane! Welllllllll, people at Lockheed say it couldn't come from her aircraft.

He found the heel of a shoe that looks like something she might have worn! Welllllllll, it's a size 9, and she was a size 6.

Sounds like this dude found a bunch of junk on an island that actually had a settlement of people living on it for about 25 years, as well as a big shipwreck and a Coast Guard station.
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