Game of Thrones

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Banedon » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:21 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
chopsx9 wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:She ran up behind him and jumped to kill him, why is this such a controversy? She's an athlete. Maybe she grabbed something to pole vault. Why does it matter? There's a show with dragons and warging and faceless men and we're critiquing the height of an assassins jump?


Because Bran and the NK were surrounded by the White Walkers.


She's a trained lethal silent assassin. That's what she does for a living.


They showed one of the NK's minions and his hair moved...that was Arya sneaking/running past. They established she can move quickly and quietly in the scene in the library when she was dodging all the wights. I thought it was pretty clear and evident that she was able to get past the NK's minions and such via stealth.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Bearded_Beef » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:02 pm

Banedon wrote:
They showed one of the NK's minions and his hair moved...that was Arya sneaking/running past.


This is one of the reasons I don't understand everyones problem with the Arya scene. They clearly alluded to her sneaking passed them to make the jump. She was sneaky, the WW were focused on something else and she made an Assassins Creedesque leap to kill the NK.

I am fully on board the blood lust train though. More protagonists should have died or they should have made the WWs a little less overwhelming or they shouldn't have put so many protagonists on the front line. It was clunky and over dramatic when they didnt need to be. Really cheapens the suspense
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Chocolate Milk » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:31 pm

I think I can distill most of the criticism I've seen of the episode into a couple of points:

1. People expected the Night King to have a more significant impact than a single battle. They feel like they set this guy up to be the big bad guy and he was defeated in one episode. It was too "easy."

2. Some of the more main characters were shown in dire straights during the battle yet none of them died. It's not realistic that they would all survive given the danger that they appeared to be in.

I kinda agree with #2, but don't agree with #1. I don't see how it was easy at all. They spent a lot of time trying to figure out the WWs. They sent Sam to the Citadel to research them. Jon united a number of factions to rally to the defense of the North. They realized dragon glass was their weakness and Jon mined it on Dragonstone and they crafted a ton of weapons using it and fortified their position with it. They were defending a castle that was basically build to defend against the walkers. They had just about every Valerian steel sword they ever mentioned on the show. Bran went North of the wall and became the Three Eyed Raven who knew the complete history of the Night King and walkers. They had probably the best infantry and cavalry fighting force on their side. They had two dragons and dragon riders. They even had a witch show up and cast a sweet AoE flame sword buff on part of their army. It honestly may have been the single greatest fighting force ever assembled in Westeros? They basically had the best possible preparation to defeat the Night King and they still barely pulled off a pyrrhic victory. If they didn't defeat him in Winterfell, how would they ever have defeated him? Realistically, how would you ever defeat an army where they can raise your own dead to fight against you? I struggle to see how if the NK won at Winterfell, how they would ever defeat him in a way that seemed realistic and satisfying.

People are also saying he didn't have enough impact, but he destroyed the wall, killed a dragon, probably killed 95% of the human population between the lands of always winter and Winterfell, destroyed Winterfell, and annihilated the Stark and Targaryn armies.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:00 pm

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:21 pm

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:50 pm

Chocolate Milk wrote:
1. People expected the Night King to have a more significant impact than a single battle. They feel like they set this guy up to be the big bad guy and he was defeated in one episode. It was too "easy."



Yea, I don't get that either, they got annihilated defending Winterfell.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:06 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Chocolate Milk wrote:
1. People expected the Night King to have a more significant impact than a single battle. They feel like they set this guy up to be the big bad guy and he was defeated in one episode. It was too "easy."



Yea, I don't get that either, they got annihilated defending Winterfell.


Indeed. Jon and Dany’s army is no longer an effective fighting force. I’d say their numbers are probably in the low hundreds now. Granted she still has two dragons, but if you wish to limit collateral damage as you take KL, you can’t just rely on dragons because they’ll just burn the place to the ground.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:00 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Chocolate Milk wrote:
1. People expected the Night King to have a more significant impact than a single battle. They feel like they set this guy up to be the big bad guy and he was defeated in one episode. It was too "easy."



Yea, I don't get that either, they got annihilated defending Winterfell.


Indeed. Jon and Dany’s army is no longer an effective fighting force. I’d say their numbers are probably in the low hundreds now. Granted she still has two dragons, but if you wish to limit collateral damage as you take KL, you can’t just rely on dragons because they’ll just burn the place to the ground.



they are more likely to defend from a KL invasion at this point. Once Cersei hears how decimated they are, she'll march won't she?

she still has the dragon harpoon/crossbow right?
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Tim » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:06 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:

Yea, I don't get that either, they got annihilated defending Winterfell.


Indeed. Jon and Dany’s army is no longer an effective fighting force. I’d say their numbers are probably in the low hundreds now. Granted she still has two dragons, but if you wish to limit collateral damage as you take KL, you can’t just rely on dragons because they’ll just burn the place to the ground.



they are more likely to defend from a KL invasion at this point. Once Cersei hears how decimated they are, she'll march won't she?

she still has the dragon harpoon/crossbow right?

Unless she's *really* confident in that weapon (or they introduce Euron's horn from the books), she'd be insane to put her army in the open field against dragons.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:55 pm

Tim wrote:Unless she's *really* confident in that weapon (or they introduce Euron's horn from the books), she'd be insane to put her army in the open field against dragons.


Precisely. Also, if she were smart she’d have ordered dozens of those scorpions (the giant crossbow) to be built and placed all over the walls of KL.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:59 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
Tim wrote:Unless she's *really* confident in that weapon (or they introduce Euron's horn from the books), she'd be insane to put her army in the open field against dragons.


Precisely. Also, if she were smart she’d have ordered dozens of those scorpions (the giant crossbow) to be built and placed all over the walls of KL.

There was just the one that was incinerated right?
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:22 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
Tim wrote:Unless she's *really* confident in that weapon (or they introduce Euron's horn from the books), she'd be insane to put her army in the open field against dragons.


Precisely. Also, if she were smart she’d have ordered dozens of those scorpions (the giant crossbow) to be built and placed all over the walls of KL.

There was just the one that was incinerated right?


I guess I'm wondering if shes brazen enough to charge Dany/Jon or calculating enough to try and subdue them on their return. Shes been capable of both
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby 17 Seconds » Wed May 01, 2019 2:12 am

was the giant going to eat lil mormont
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed May 01, 2019 2:41 am

17 Seconds wrote:was the giant going to eat lil mormont


Probably just her head
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby scarey » Wed May 01, 2019 9:44 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
Tim wrote:Unless she's *really* confident in that weapon (or they introduce Euron's horn from the books), she'd be insane to put her army in the open field against dragons.


Precisely. Also, if she were smart she’d have ordered dozens of those scorpions (the giant crossbow) to be built and placed all over the walls of KL.

There was just the one that was incinerated right?



I'm having trouble tracking it down, but I'm pretty sure after the initial attempt to kill a dragon with the scorpion, Cersie ordered to have a bunch more built and equipped around the city.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby OleMissCub » Wed May 01, 2019 2:23 pm

OK, so for years now we've heard about the rightful heir to the Seven Kingdoms being Dany and now it's Jon. That seems to be the narrative that most viewers are going with. But are they really the rightful heirs? The Targareyn's lost a war and a usurper seized the throne. Thus, the usurper became the king and his heirs are the rightful heirs until another family takes the throne. Currently it's a Lannister on the throne after Cersei seized power, so if she had a child it would be the rightful heir.

People like to parrot and believe Dany's "rightful heir" claim, but she or Jon are no more legitimate at this point than anyone else. It's a matter of perspective. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this thought...I guess just trying to make sense of why everyone seems to be on the bandwagon that Dany/Jon are the rightful heirs.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Brian » Wed May 01, 2019 2:35 pm

I think it's just a resume thing, besides taking the throne by force you want to have some sort of justification for support of other houses and the commoners. I can't remember if it is ever brought up in the shows, but Robert even came in with Targ bloodline justification when he took the throne.

edit -

Thus, through Rhaelle, Robert Baratheon descended from King Aegon V Targaryen and thus had a blood claim to the Iron Throne, which the maesters used to justify the outcome to Robert's Rebellion.[5]


Rhaelle Targaryen was his grandmother
Last edited by Brian on Wed May 01, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Chocolate Milk » Wed May 01, 2019 2:35 pm

OleMissCub wrote:OK, so for years now we've heard about the rightful heir to the Seven Kingdoms being Dany and now it's Jon. That seems to be the narrative that most viewers are going with. But are they really the rightful heirs? The Targareyn's lost a war and a usurper seized the throne. Thus, the usurper became the king and his heirs are the rightful heirs until another family takes the throne. Currently it's a Lannister on the throne after Cersei seized power, so if she had a child it would be the rightful heir.

People like to parrot and believe Dany's "rightful heir" claim, but she or Jon are no more legitimate at this point than anyone else. It's a matter of perspective. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this thought...I guess just trying to make sense of why everyone seems to be on the bandwagon that Dany/Jon are the rightful heirs.

I also think it's interesting that there is so much talk about who is the rightful heir, when the show and books make it clear that "rightful" ruler is really just the person strong enough to hold the throne and subjugate the rest of the high lords. Dany calls Bobby B the usurper, but Aegon the conqueror wasn't the rightful heir of anything, just a guy with some dragons. Westeros had 7 independent kingdoms for thousands of years before Aegon came, he was the original usurper. Ceseri is sitting on the Iron Throne with basically no justification and everyone, except Dany and Jon, seem mostly ok with that. If you can make yourself the king and no one can stop you, guess what? You're the king now.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed May 01, 2019 2:42 pm

OleMissCub wrote:OK, so for years now we've heard about the rightful heir to the Seven Kingdoms being Dany and now it's Jon. That seems to be the narrative that most viewers are going with. But are they really the rightful heirs? The Targareyn's lost a war and a usurper seized the throne. Thus, the usurper became the king and his heirs are the rightful heirs until another family takes the throne. Currently it's a Lannister on the throne after Cersei seized power, so if she had a child it would be the rightful heir.

People like to parrot and believe Dany's "rightful heir" claim, but she or Jon are no more legitimate at this point than anyone else. It's a matter of perspective. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this thought...I guess just trying to make sense of why everyone seems to be on the bandwagon that Dany/Jon are the rightful heirs.

I think everybody is pretty clear that might makes right at this point. The rightful heir stuff was just about who would team up with whom, but teams have been decided at this point.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby OleMissCub » Wed May 01, 2019 2:42 pm

Chocolate Milk wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:OK, so for years now we've heard about the rightful heir to the Seven Kingdoms being Dany and now it's Jon. That seems to be the narrative that most viewers are going with. But are they really the rightful heirs? The Targareyn's lost a war and a usurper seized the throne. Thus, the usurper became the king and his heirs are the rightful heirs until another family takes the throne. Currently it's a Lannister on the throne after Cersei seized power, so if she had a child it would be the rightful heir.

People like to parrot and believe Dany's "rightful heir" claim, but she or Jon are no more legitimate at this point than anyone else. It's a matter of perspective. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this thought...I guess just trying to make sense of why everyone seems to be on the bandwagon that Dany/Jon are the rightful heirs.

I also think it's interesting that there is so much talk about who is the rightful heir, when the show and books make it clear that "rightful" ruler is really just the person strong enough to hold the throne and subjugate the rest of the high lords. Dany calls Bobby B the usurper, but Aegon the conqueror wasn't the rightful heir of anything, just a guy with some dragons. Westeros had 7 independent kingdoms for thousands of years before Aegon came, he was the original usurper. Ceseri is sitting on the Iron Throne with basically no justification and everyone, except Dany and Jon, seem mostly ok with that. If you can make yourself the king and no one can stop you, guess what? You're the king now.


Which is absolutely accurate to how it worked in real history.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby OleMissCub » Wed May 01, 2019 3:33 pm

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed May 01, 2019 3:44 pm

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed May 01, 2019 3:46 pm

there isn't much out there more annoying than war nerds critiquing entertainment battle scenes
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed May 01, 2019 3:50 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:there isn't much out there more annoying than war nerds critiquing entertainment battle scenes


I mean, they are EVERYWHERE

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Derwood » Wed May 01, 2019 3:58 pm

OleMissCub wrote:Image



Silly comic aside, did the show have Melisandre drop the necklace so that it could later be picked up by someone else, or is that me reading too much into it?
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