Game of Thrones

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon May 13, 2019 4:57 am

Derwood wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Derwood wrote:Plot armor was thiiicckkkkk this week

Other than Arya, who is that true for? Given how the events went down, is someone else surviving who shouldn't be?


Spoiler: show
Dany is methodically destroying the entire city while many key characters (Jaime, Jon, Davos, Greyworm, Arya, etc.) are scattered, yet all are constantly in the right place at the right time.

Also, the Golden Company are the stormtroopers of GoT

Spoiler: show
Jaime died in the end, if not in the way he "should have". I guess it's plot armor in the sense he died how he would have wanted, but, meh. All the others sans Arya were still on the outside gates when she did her circuitous route to the red keep. Yea they survived some madness and battle, but not anything all the skilled fighters haven't survived basically.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby OleMissCub » Mon May 13, 2019 5:01 am

I loved Varys trying to poison Dany.

RIP Varys: a character who actually cared for the little man.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby XZero77 » Mon May 13, 2019 8:46 am

My feeling immediately after viewing is that this was lazy and predictable writing, and that I hate it.

That may change.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Derwood » Mon May 13, 2019 11:17 am

XZero77 wrote:My feeling immediately after viewing is that this was lazy and predictable writing, and that I hate it.

That may change.


Spoiler: show
Dany burning the city down was predictable?
Jaime and Cersei dying that way was predictable?
Arya retreating instead of trying to kill Cersei was predictable?
Greyworm attacking soldiers who had surrendered was predictable?
Varys being executed was predictable?

Which of these could you see coming all along?
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Derwood » Mon May 13, 2019 11:19 am

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby rocket » Mon May 13, 2019 12:29 pm

Derwood wrote:
XZero77 wrote:My feeling immediately after viewing is that this was lazy and predictable writing, and that I hate it.

That may change.


Spoiler: show
Dany burning the city down was predictable?
Jaime and Cersei dying that way was predictable?
Arya retreating instead of trying to kill Cersei was predictable?
Greyworm attacking soldiers who had surrendered was predictable?
Varys being executed was predictable?

Which of these could you see coming all along?


I'm not complaining that they happened, but Dany burning King's Landing and Varys being executed didn't come out of left field
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby XZero77 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:37 pm

Derwood wrote:
XZero77 wrote:My feeling immediately after viewing is that this was lazy and predictable writing, and that I hate it.

That may change.


Spoiler: show
Dany burning the city down was predictable?
Jaime and Cersei dying that way was predictable?
Arya retreating instead of trying to kill Cersei was predictable?
Greyworm attacking soldiers who had surrendered was predictable?
Varys being executed was predictable?

Which of these could you see coming all along?


Spoiler: show
Dany going mad and burning all the things was practically announced last week. I was really hoping it wouldn't happen only because they made it so obvious they were setting up the mad queen narrative. I was really hoping it was a misdirect. It was the major plot development of this episode and yes, it was painfully predictable, at least after last week's episode.

Grey Worm going blindly homicidal was also pretty strongly set up last week. The writers really wanted us to see how he and Dany had lost or were in danger of losing everything dear to them.

Varys being executed was also clearly set up. Dany: "If you betray me, I'll burn you alive." Melisandre: "I have to die in this strange land, as do you" Varys: *betrays Dany*

Jaime and Cersei were likely to die this week, but no, I would not have predicted them going the way they did. I was expecting Jaime to kill her.

As far as Arya, no I didn't sense that particular choice coming, but I also didn't think they would give both the NK and Cersei kills to her.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby XZero77 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:44 pm

rocket wrote:
Derwood wrote:
XZero77 wrote:My feeling immediately after viewing is that this was lazy and predictable writing, and that I hate it.

That may change.


Spoiler: show
Dany burning the city down was predictable?
Jaime and Cersei dying that way was predictable?
Arya retreating instead of trying to kill Cersei was predictable?
Greyworm attacking soldiers who had surrendered was predictable?
Varys being executed was predictable?

Which of these could you see coming all along?


I'm not complaining that they happened, but Dany burning King's Landing and Varys being executed didn't come out of left field


I don't have an issue with any of the things that happened. My issue is that some of the plot cues that should have been subtle were ham-fisted. I think this is a function of trying to cram too much plot into too few episodes.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Derwood » Mon May 13, 2019 12:54 pm

The thing that it felt like they were setting up for, but never happened was:

Spoiler: show
Cersei being tipped off to the "ring the bells to surrender" in order to get Jon and company let their guard down and then get ambushed. I was certain this was going to happen since Tyrion seemed to be hammering this idea to death
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon May 13, 2019 1:17 pm

Derwood wrote:The thing that it felt like they were setting up for, but never happened was:

Spoiler: show
Cersei being tipped off to the "ring the bells to surrender" in order to get Jon and company let their guard down and then get ambushed. I was certain this was going to happen since Tyrion seemed to be hammering this idea to death

Yea, I definitely thought that was going to happen.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon May 13, 2019 1:36 pm

It's pretty amazing that the same show can be criticized for character decisions coming out of nowhere and being completely predictable all at the same time.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby cl smooth » Mon May 13, 2019 1:42 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:It's pretty amazing that the same show can be criticized for character decisions coming out of nowhere and being completely predictable all at the same time.


always curious of your thoughts after each episode since you seem to be the biggest game of thrones fan on this board.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Derwood » Mon May 13, 2019 1:46 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:It's pretty amazing that the same show can be criticized for character decisions coming out of nowhere and being completely predictable all at the same time.


Welcome to the internet, where everyone has an opinion and they're all wrong

And "bad writing" = "I don't like what they're doing to the story"
Last edited by Derwood on Mon May 13, 2019 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Brian » Mon May 13, 2019 1:46 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:It's pretty amazing that the same show can be criticized for character decisions coming out of nowhere and being completely predictable all at the same time.


I was going to say the same thing.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Chocolate Milk » Mon May 13, 2019 2:14 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:It's pretty amazing that the same show can be criticized for character decisions coming out of nowhere and being completely predictable all at the same time.

I don't get how some of these twists people were expecting would be satisfying. This was the second to last episode - you can't just drastically shift course this late in the game with the characters already defined. At a certain point, you need to follow through or it's incoherent.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby The Logan » Mon May 13, 2019 2:26 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Derwood wrote:The thing that it felt like they were setting up for, but never happened was:

Spoiler: show
Cersei being tipped off to the "ring the bells to surrender" in order to get Jon and company let their guard down and then get ambushed. I was certain this was going to happen since Tyrion seemed to be hammering this idea to death

Yea, I definitely thought that was going to happen.


Spoiler: show
I for sure thought Cersei was going to just burn the city to the ground with wildfire to kill Dany's army and that was going to lead Jamie to finish the job
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon May 13, 2019 2:30 pm

I was a little (lot) mother's day drunk last night and need to rewatch, but I think I was good with all but the euron scene.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Chocolate Milk » Mon May 13, 2019 2:35 pm

"I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror." Varys right again.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby CubinNY » Mon May 13, 2019 2:49 pm

OleMissCub wrote:I loved Varys trying to poison Dany.

RIP Varys: a character who actually cared for the little man.

Varys said he cared about the smallfolk, but what he really cared about was manipulating people to further his ends.

I wonder how much input Martin had on these last two seasons. Anyway, Dany’s Heel turn is is perfectly reasonable given the myths she was brought up with. Her sense of entitlement is everything from the day she was born.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon May 13, 2019 2:52 pm

Chocolate Milk wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:It's pretty amazing that the same show can be criticized for character decisions coming out of nowhere and being completely predictable all at the same time.

I don't get how some of these twists people were expecting would be satisfying. This was the second to last episode - you can't just drastically shift course this late in the game with the characters already defined. At a certain point, you need to follow through or it's incoherent.

That, and people just interpret things weird sometimes. For instance I was reading a complaint that Dany was burning down KL "not mere hours after saying Mercy was their greatest strength". But it was 100% clear that the mercy in this case was for future people never to be destroyed again... Kind of an old testament God mercy through fear" thing.

The twist was that she had still seemed on board with a surrender and basically said "nah" when she had the opportunity. But probably in an alternate timeline of events a surrender would be a trap and everyone would say "lol why'd you trust Cercei?" so Dany may have just been skeptical of any surrender, and that makes sense actually knowing what we know.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby OleMissCub » Mon May 13, 2019 2:54 pm

I have no problem with Dany turning out to be a Mad Queen in the end, but I'd like to know why she snapped like that. She's always been volatile and likes to threaten and be menacing to people to get her way, but what made her flip the switch and start committing genocide?

In the past her anger has always been directed at people who had wronged her or who she felt wronged her: slavers who crucified kids or Dothraki warlords who disrespected her or lords who wouldn't bend the knee. Missandei being killed shouldn't have led her to slaughter hundreds of thousands of people. Folks can bring up how her dad wanted to kill everyone, but her dad had just lost a war and was about to lose his throne and was also so delusional that he thought his fiery death would turn him into a dragon. On the contrary, Dany had essentially just won the war at the moment the Lannister army surrendered.

Again, I have no problem with her ultimately turning out to be a crazy Targ, but why would she behave that way at the moment of her supreme victory and why would she harm hundreds of thousands? Why take it out on the innocents? That seems like behavior she might engage in if her back was against the wall or something like that.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon May 13, 2019 2:58 pm

OleMissCub wrote:I have no problem with Dany turning out to be a Mad Queen in the end, but I'd like to know why she snapped like that. She's always been volatile and likes to threaten and be menacing to people to get her way, but what made her flip the switch and start committing genocide?

In the past her anger has always been directed at people who had wronged her or who she felt wronged her: slavers who crucified kids or Dothraki warlords who disrespected her or lords who wouldn't bend the knee. Missandei being killed shouldn't have led her to slaughter hundreds of thousands of people. Folks can bring up how her dad wanted to kill everyone, but her dad had just lost a war and was about to lose his throne and was also so delusional that he thought his fiery death would turn him into a dragon. On the contrary, Dany had essentially just won the war at the moment the Lannister army surrendered.

Again, I have no problem with her ultimately turning out to be a crazy Targ, but why would she behave that way at the moment of her supreme victory and why would she harm hundreds of thousands? Why take it out on the innocents? That seems like behavior she might engage in if her back was against the wall or something like that.

A plot has unfolded to put a more popular and arguably stronger heir on the throne. She knows of this plot and knows she can send a message to those who might jump on this plot. Her back is plenty up against the wall.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon May 13, 2019 2:58 pm

OleMissCub wrote:I have no problem with Dany turning out to be a Mad Queen in the end, but I'd like to know why she snapped like that.

Missandei being killed shouldn't have led her to slaughter hundreds of thousands of people.


Missandei and Rhaegal were killed

She had to burn down every scorpion, and there were lots of them. Once the blood got boiling there was no turning back, that's like something we hear in every war and every story about war. Not sure why you of all people would question it.

Every time she compromised on her way to the throne it cost her. So there was no holding back.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Brian » Mon May 13, 2019 3:01 pm

lol the actor that played Selmy may have gone mad too. There's not way that's true.

"I don't know if you know more than me about this, but what I've been told is that George has already written books six and seven," McElhinney said. "And as far as he's concerned, there only are seven books. But he struck an agreement with David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss], the showrunners of the series, that he would not publish the final two books until the series has completed. So all goes well, in another month or two, we might get books six and seven, and I'm intrigued to know how Barristan, for instance, ends up going through those final two books."


But it does bring up a big show failure, Selmy really needed to be here for this.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon May 13, 2019 3:05 pm

Brian wrote:lol the actor that played Selmy may have gone mad too. There's not way that's true.

"I don't know if you know more than me about this, but what I've been told is that George has already written books six and seven," McElhinney said. "And as far as he's concerned, there only are seven books. But he struck an agreement with David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss], the showrunners of the series, that he would not publish the final two books until the series has completed. So all goes well, in another month or two, we might get books six and seven, and I'm intrigued to know how Barristan, for instance, ends up going through those final two books."


But it does bring up a big show failure, Selmy really needed to be here for this.

That's been my theory. Once it got past the point of no return, it didn't make sense for him to release the books before the show ended. So the show gets all the hype but all the nerds can whine about it and then George can save the day be releasing the books to finish the story the right way.

Then again he hasn't written anything.
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