Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:23 pm

Old Style wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Old Style wrote:Cue the "we need more gun control" vs "we need MORE guns" debate that always gets us nowhere.

it's the we need more guns people who get us nowhere

I'm not even taking sides in the matter but it's insanity to keep doing the same thing over & over and expect anything to change.


That's some extra spicy and sloppy false equivalence right there.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Banedon » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:23 pm

Old Style wrote:I'm not even taking sides in the matter


Why?
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:23 pm

Old Style wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Old Style wrote:Cue the "we need more gun control" vs "we need MORE guns" debate that always gets us nowhere.

it's the we need more guns people who get us nowhere

I'm not even taking sides in the matter but it's insanity to keep doing the same thing over & over and expect anything to change.

It's insane to equate people who say we need more gun control with people saying we need more guns, and blaming them both for "same thing/nothing changes".

It's absolutely stupid to pretend people calling for gun control are part of the problem, or at all responsible for no change. The only change that can help is more gun control. There is literally nothing else. But gun nuts would rather see people keep dying, because they are terrible people.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:28 pm

*Person is set on fire for the 13,456th time*

"We need better people being set on fire control!"

*This dude over here*

"These people not wanting to be set on fire are insane because they keep talking about how they don't want to be set on fire!"
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:03 pm

*Strategy session for America's top generals and admirals for the War in the Pacific during WWII*

Do we still have control of Midway?

Yes, but we lost a few other smaller islands nearby.

Every time we win control over a few islands, we lose a few more, and casualties are mounting!

You know sir, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

By Job, you're right! Let us consider ways to win this war without fighting. There are clearly no alternatives!
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Brian707 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:35 pm

Old Style wrote:Cue the "we need more gun control" vs "we need MORE guns" debate that always gets us nowhere.


The NRA and an entire political party are why we are getting nowhere
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Old Style » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:30 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Old Style wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:it's the we need more guns people who get us nowhere

I'm not even taking sides in the matter but it's insanity to keep doing the same thing over & over and expect anything to change.

It's insane to equate people who say we need more gun control with people saying we need more guns, and blaming them both for "same thing/nothing changes".

It's absolutely stupid to pretend people calling for gun control are part of the problem, or at all responsible for no change. The only change that can help is more gun control. There is literally nothing else. But gun nuts would rather see people keep dying, because they are terrible people.

I'm saying do more than just say we need gun control. Actually do something about it. Get some laws changed/passed. I am not a gun owner,have never fired a gun, and have never even held a loaded weapon. I am fine with more gun control. But I also understand the argument that someone who would commit a crime like this would likely find an illegal way to get the weapons necessary to do so, even if this time they did so legally. It's not hard to purchase illegal things if you really want them. Doesn't Chicago have strict gun laws? That doesn't seem to have solved the murder problem. Honestly I have no idea what a solution would be. I think it's too simplistic to say "more gun control would solve this issue" without a much more thought out, detailed plan.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Old Style » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:31 pm

Brian707 wrote:
Old Style wrote:Cue the "we need more gun control" vs "we need MORE guns" debate that always gets us nowhere.


The NRA and an entire political party are why we are getting nowhere

I agree that their complete unwillingness to discuss the matter is a huge problem.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Banedon » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:07 pm

You really, truly need to educate yourself on the issue.

Old Style wrote:But I also understand the argument that someone who would commit a crime like this would likely find an illegal way to get the weapons necessary to do so, even if this time they did so legally. It's not hard to purchase illegal things if you really want them. Doesn't Chicago have strict gun laws? That doesn't seem to have solved the murder problem. Honestly I have no idea what a solution would be. I think it's too simplistic to say "more gun control would solve this issue" without a much more thought out, detailed plan.


Chicago has strict gun laws, but Indiana does not. It's very easy to get guns in Indiana and bring them to Chicago. Strict national gun laws would work.

Australia is proof of that.

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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:10 pm

Banedon wrote:You really, truly need to educate yourself on the issue.

Old Style wrote:But I also understand the argument that someone who would commit a crime like this would likely find an illegal way to get the weapons necessary to do so, even if this time they did so legally. It's not hard to purchase illegal things if you really want them. Doesn't Chicago have strict gun laws? That doesn't seem to have solved the murder problem. Honestly I have no idea what a solution would be. I think it's too simplistic to say "more gun control would solve this issue" without a much more thought out, detailed plan.


Chicago has strict gun laws, but Indiana does not. It's very easy to get guns in Indiana and bring them to Chicago. Strict national gun laws would work.


Also:

I'm saying do more than just say we need gun control. Actually do something about it. Get some laws changed/passed.


horsefeathers, that's all? How come nobody's ever thought of that?!?
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby CubinNY » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:16 pm

Old Style wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Old Style wrote:I'm not even taking sides in the matter but it's insanity to keep doing the same thing over & over and expect anything to change.

It's insane to equate people who say we need more gun control with people saying we need more guns, and blaming them both for "same thing/nothing changes".

It's absolutely stupid to pretend people calling for gun control are part of the problem, or at all responsible for no change. The only change that can help is more gun control. There is literally nothing else. But gun nuts would rather see people keep dying, because they are terrible people.

I'm saying do more than just say we need gun control. Actually do something about it. Get some laws changed/passed. I am not a gun owner,have never fired a gun, and have never even held a loaded weapon. I am fine with more gun control. But I also understand the argument that someone who would commit a crime like this would likely find an illegal way to get the weapons necessary to do so, even if this time they did so legally. It's not hard to purchase illegal things if you really want them. Doesn't Chicago have strict gun laws? That doesn't seem to have solved the murder problem. Honestly I have no idea what a solution would be. I think it's too simplistic to say "more gun control would solve this issue" without a much more thought out, detailed plan.

People in Chicago can walk to a gun store in Indiana where it’s easy to buy guns. They can drive to Wisconsin or Iowa or really anywhere and bring the gun back to Chicago. You seem to have a simplistic view of the problem. We need nationwide gun laws that are uniform for every state. I can go to a “gun show” every weekend in Alabama and buy a gun without any background check. I can buy as many as I can afford including those solely designed to kill humans. One side had done as much as they can to allow that to happen.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:20 pm

Old Style wrote:I'm saying do more than just say we need gun control. Actually do something about it. Get some laws changed/passed.


The only reason there haven't been better laws passed is because of pro-gun people and people who whine about "politicizing gun violence". I'm not in a position to pass any laws, all I can do is call for more gun control and vote for people in favor of gun control.

But I also understand the argument that someone who would commit a crime like this would likely find an illegal way to get the weapons necessary to do so, even if this time they did so legally. It's not hard to purchase illegal things if you really want them. Doesn't Chicago have strict gun laws? That doesn't seem to have solved the murder problem


It's true that more gun laws wouldn't prevent all gun deaths, but they would lower the amount.

Chicago doesn't exist in a vacuum, and other people addressed this, but this late into the gun debate that story has been told millions of times, and you have to be willfully ignorant to still get it wrong.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:58 pm

We can't keep doing the same thing and almost exclusively blue states continue to pass new laws and the federal govt, with one party controlling both legislative houses for the past 4 years has done... Diddly.

Agreed, can't keep doing the same thing!
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Old Style » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:04 pm

Banedon wrote:You really, truly need to educate yourself on the issue.

Old Style wrote:But I also understand the argument that someone who would commit a crime like this would likely find an illegal way to get the weapons necessary to do so, even if this time they did so legally. It's not hard to purchase illegal things if you really want them. Doesn't Chicago have strict gun laws? That doesn't seem to have solved the murder problem. Honestly I have no idea what a solution would be. I think it's too simplistic to say "more gun control would solve this issue" without a much more thought out, detailed plan.


Chicago has strict gun laws, but Indiana does not. It's very easy to get guns in Indiana and bring them to Chicago. Strict national gun laws would work.

Australia is proof of that.

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How many of those are mass shootings?

Also, just saying "strict national gun laws" doesn't really work. What specific measures would you take? The Bill of Rights does guarantee the right to keep and bear arms. Now I certainly understand there is a legitimate debate as to how that can be interpreted but it can't be ignored. Again, I'm not against stricter gun laws personally. I'd be 100% fine if they were banned altogether but that's not reasonable.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:28 pm

Old Style wrote:How many of those are mass shootings?


What difference would that make?

Also, just saying "strict national gun laws" doesn't really work. What specific measures would you take?


This also would not "work," since we're just people on a message board. We've hashed and rehashed our own ideas to gun control in this thread and the other politics threads time and time and time again, since these sort of things keep happening time and time and time again. Simple defaulting to, "both sides are nuts; the 2nd Amendment says we can have guns, so what can you really do?" is a FAR more egregious bout of wheel-spinning than what you're accusing everyone else is doing.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Chocolate Milk » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:31 pm

The video of the guy announcing he lost his son nearly broke me. Senseless and unspeakable tragedy.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:31 pm

Old Style wrote:The Bill of Rights does guarantee the right to keep and bear arms.

well regulated militia
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Old Style » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:39 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Old Style wrote:The Bill of Rights does guarantee the right to keep and bear arms.

well regulated militia

And legal scholars will debate the meaning of that phrase.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:41 pm

Old Style wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Old Style wrote:The Bill of Rights does guarantee the right to keep and bear arms.

well regulated militia

And legal scholars will debate the meaning of that phrase.


Right, which is why it's kind of critical to vote in people of power who will appoint judges and Supreme Court Justices who aren't beholden to conservative gun interests/policies, and who aren't strict origianlists when it comes to the Constitution/BoR.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:42 pm

Old Style wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Old Style wrote:The Bill of Rights does guarantee the right to keep and bear arms.

well regulated militia

And legal scholars will debate the meaning of that phrase.

and you'll keep talking in circles telling people to "do something but don't do that".
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Old Style » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:44 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Old Style wrote:How many of those are mass shootings?


What difference would that make?

Also, just saying "strict national gun laws" doesn't really work. What specific measures would you take?


This also would not "work," since we're just people on a message board. We've hashed and rehashed our own ideas to gun control in this thread and the other politics threads time and time and time again, since these sort of things keep happening time and time and time again. Simple defaulting to, "both sides are nuts; the 2nd Amendment says we can have guns, so what can you really do?" is a FAR more egregious bout of wheel-spinning than what you're accusing everyone else is doing.

Nowhere did I say that.

And the mass shooting issue matters because strict gun control laws may lessen the individual shootings but someone crazy enough to go into a club and shoot up random people will likely go to whatever lengths necessary to get the guns needed for that. Also, America seems to have way more than the usual share of crazy MF'ers who go that route than a place like Australia. But before somebody accuses me of something I didn't say, I'M NOT USING ANY OF THIS AS A REASON AGAINST GUN LAWS. My only argument is that I don't think it's as easy as many of you seem to think it is. It seems like lawmakers in the country lost the ability to work together towards compromises on issues somewhere along the way. That just makes the other side dig their heels in even more refusing to budge an inch from their stance. That is a major problem.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Old Style » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:45 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Old Style wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:well regulated militia

And legal scholars will debate the meaning of that phrase.


Right, which is why it's kind of critical to vote in people of power who will appoint judges and Supreme Court Justices who aren't beholden to conservative gun interests/policies, and who aren't strict origianlists when it comes to the Constitution/BoR.

And I did exactly that in the midterm elections. Unfortunately my candidate did not win.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:47 pm

I'm losing track of what is actually being argued here. Guess I'll keep it simple for myself:

If you really want reasonable gun control, vote for Democrats. If not, vote GOP.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby PosterToBeNamedLater » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:58 pm

Old Style wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Old Style wrote:How many of those are mass shootings?


What difference would that make?

Also, just saying "strict national gun laws" doesn't really work. What specific measures would you take?


This also would not "work," since we're just people on a message board. We've hashed and rehashed our own ideas to gun control in this thread and the other politics threads time and time and time again, since these sort of things keep happening time and time and time again. Simple defaulting to, "both sides are nuts; the 2nd Amendment says we can have guns, so what can you really do?" is a FAR more egregious bout of wheel-spinning than what you're accusing everyone else is doing.

Nowhere did I say that.

And the mass shooting issue matters because strict gun control laws may lessen the individual shootings but someone crazy enough to go into a club and shoot up random people will likely go to whatever lengths necessary to get the guns needed for that. Also, America seems to have way more than the usual share of crazy MF'ers who go that route than a place like Australia. But before somebody accuses me of something I didn't say, I'M NOT USING ANY OF THIS AS A REASON AGAINST GUN LAWS. My only argument is that I don't think it's as easy as many of you seem to think it is. It seems like lawmakers in the country lost the ability to work together towards compromises on issues somewhere along the way. That just makes the other side dig their heels in even more refusing to budge an inch from their stance. That is a major problem.

Others have already made the point about national gun laws that would make that a lot more difficult, but I also don't agree with this sentence. I mean are there some criminals who might have some way to get a gun? Maybe. But I would bet most of these mass shootings wouldn't have happened if it wasn't so easy to get guns in this country. I mean, just as an example, is someone like Adam Lanza going to get a gun on the black market? More than likely, if he doesn't have a gun around the house, he never ends up shooting a whole bunch of 6 year olds.
Last edited by PosterToBeNamedLater on Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guess what an idiot with a gun did this time

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:59 pm

Old Style wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Old Style wrote:How many of those are mass shootings?


What difference would that make?

Also, just saying "strict national gun laws" doesn't really work. What specific measures would you take?


This also would not "work," since we're just people on a message board. We've hashed and rehashed our own ideas to gun control in this thread and the other politics threads time and time and time again, since these sort of things keep happening time and time and time again. Simple defaulting to, "both sides are nuts; the 2nd Amendment says we can have guns, so what can you really do?" is a FAR more egregious bout of wheel-spinning than what you're accusing everyone else is doing.

Nowhere did I say that.

And the mass shooting issue matters because strict gun control laws may lessen the individual shootings but someone crazy enough to go into a club and shoot up random people will likely go to whatever lengths necessary to get the guns needed for that. Also, America seems to have way more than the usual share of crazy MF'ers who go that route than a place like Australia. But before somebody accuses me of something I didn't say, I'M NOT USING ANY OF THIS AS A REASON AGAINST GUN LAWS. My only argument is that I don't think it's as easy as many of you seem to think it is. It seems like lawmakers in the country lost the ability to work together towards compromises on issues somewhere along the way. That just makes the other side dig their heels in even more refusing to budge an inch from their stance. That is a major problem.


America's not "more crazy;" we just have a horsefeathers ton more guns than everyone, hence more gun violence.

And nobody is saying this is an "easy" fix. Anyone who pays attention for more than two seconds would realize any changes in regards to gun violence would truly be a generational thing. I'm talking, like, 30-50 years to see real, widespread improvement, because, yeah, nobody's just up and wiping out most of the guns in one (or two or three) fell swoop.

So, again...what even is your point? That it's hard to enact actual gun control legislation? Yes, we know. But tossing out nonsense like, "lawmakers in the country lost the ability to work together towards compromises on issues somewhere along the way" makes it sound like there's people on both sides of the aisle looking to tackle the gun problem in America. There isn't. There is no compromise. The GOP has zero interest in any type of real gun control, and never have short of when it has been specifically targeted at, shocker, minorities. Trying to sweatily jerk the sad and floppy "both sides need to work together" schtick is completely empty, because one side is totally wrong and useless in regards to this issue.
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