♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Derwood » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:29 pm

The originals see good actors like Ford and Guinness rise above what is totally corny dialogue, while the prequels see good to very good actors (McGregor, Portman, Jackson, Neeson) look like complete amateurs. I mean, it’s not crazy to say that all four of those actors give the worst performances of their careers, all in the same set of movies (ok maybe not Jackson, who has gems like Snakes on a Plane and Deep Blue Sea on his resume)
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:31 pm

Man, that cantina scene works so well; Luke is playing the over-stimulated, overly emotional kid trying to both impress Obi-Wan and acting jealous over Han, Obi-Wan is simultaneously trying to reign him in and play it cool negotiating with Han, and Han is split between trying to suss out Obi-Wan and getting pissed off at this kid getting all up in his grill.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:34 pm

Putting aside the acting and dialogue problems, "Our main hero is *supposed* to be an annoying little turd" is not a selling point.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:39 pm

Great call; all the best versions of the Hero's Journey start with the hero having it all figured out and generally being one of the most charismatic and successful people around. Character arcs are for chumps.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Tim » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:46 pm

One of the things I haven't seen in any of the discussions about the Canto Bight stuff is that Finn's interactions with Rose are essential to his growth as a central character. He goes from trying to escape again; to facing down one of his demons; to attempting to sacrifice himself; to showing some true leadership over the course of this movie and it is entirely due to Rose and the side adventure.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:49 pm

Tim wrote:One of the things I haven't seen in any of the discussions about the Canto Bight stuff is that Finn's interactions with Rose are essential to his growth as a central character. He goes from trying to escape again; to facing down one of his demons; to attempting to sacrifice himself; to showing some true leadership over the course of this movie and it is entirely due to Rose and the side adventure.


Agreed, though to quibble, he's not trying to "escape;" Rose just thinks he is. He's trying to get to Rey to keep her from coming back to the doomed fleet. But overall, yes, it's hugely important to building him up, plus both for himself and as an audience surrogate for him to be wowed by all the luxury before he's forced to realize what all of that is propped up on.

And Justin Theroux's absurdly suave space James Bond cracked me up.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby TBS Playoffs Insider » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:56 pm

The casino thing meandered, but the beats were crucial so ultimately i'll forgive it EXCEPT FOR THE BIT WHERE FINN WAS LIKE WOAH THIS IS SICK LETS JUST STAY HERE LOL SLOT MACHINES! while he knows that his friends are stuck on that ship with mere hours to live and their lives depend on his quick exit.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:59 pm

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:The casino thing meandered, but the beats were crucial so ultimately i'll forgive it EXCEPT FOR THE BIT WHERE FINN WAS LIKE WOAH THIS IS SICK LETS JUST STAY HERE LOL SLOT MACHINES! while he knows that his friends are stuck on that ship with mere hours to live and their lives depend on his quick exit.


Yeah, him being amazed and stunned because of how sheltered he's been made sense. Him being possessed by GAMBLOR right away was dumb. And that little leprechaun dude pumping coins into BB-8 was an uncanny valley too far for me. I love a huge variety of aliens and gleep-glops, but dude just looked like a straight up cartoon that couldn't exist in any kind of "real world."

But, hey, nitpicks.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Banedon » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:02 pm

But Finn has tried to run away from the rebellion a couple of times now. It wouldn't have been out of character too far for him to think "screw it, this place is way better than the hopeless fight against the First Order."
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby CubinNY » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:06 pm

The only problem I have with TLJ is that I wish we would have gotten more backstory on Snoke. He had to have been around since at least The Clone Wars
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Derwood » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:07 pm

Finn being caught by Rose at the escape pods didn’t play like he was going to find Rey AT ALL. Felt like he was running away again
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:11 pm

Banedon wrote:But Finn has tried to run away from the rebellion a couple of times now. It wouldn't have been out of character too far for him to think "screw it, this place is way better than the hopeless fight against the First Order."


And he does have the beacon, right? He's even more loyal to Rey than to the Rebels, so maybe he's thinking, "alright, at least Rey will come here instead of to the fleet."
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Banedon » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:13 pm

That beacon was weird. Seems like a really weirdly overpowered piece of mythical tech. Nobody else could pick up whatever signal was going between those two beacons that apparently can pin down the location of someone across the galaxy? Better hope that works better than the "nobody can track us through lightspeed" belief.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Derwood wrote:Finn being caught by Rose at the escape pods didn’t play like he was going to find Rey AT ALL. Felt like he was running away again


But that just seems so out of character; he didn't run from the First Order because he was afraid; he left them because he knew that what they were doing was wrong. He was ready to leave in Maz's place seemingly because Rey was getting caught up with this janky smuggler and he wanted to get to the Resistance. In this he really would just be running to save himself, which seems, IMO, pretty out of character. Plus he flat out says he wants to keep Rey safe, and we really don't have a reason to not believe him.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Derwood » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:15 pm

Finn was leaving Maz’s to get back to the Resistance? I never interpreted it that way
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:15 pm

Banedon wrote:That beacon was weird. Seems like a really weirdly overpowered piece of mythical tech. Nobody else could pick up whatever signal was going between those two beacons that apparently can pin down the location of someone across the galaxy? Better hope that works better than the "nobody can track us through lightspeed" belief.


I long, long, long ago stopped trying to figure out the physics/science of tech and, well, EVERYTHING in SW, because almost none of it makes a lick of sense.

Whoever invents railing technology in that galaxy is going to rule it like a king.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:17 pm

Derwood wrote:Finn was leaving Maz’s to get back to the Resistance? I never interpreted it that way


Not to get BACK to the Resistance; to get to them in the first place. At that point he and Rey still hadn't found them and that's who he is looking for while Rey is now focused on finding Luke and sticking with Han. They only join up with them after Maz's place is attacked and they are saved by Poe and co..
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby CubinNY » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:22 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:Finn was leaving Maz’s to get back to the Resistance? I never interpreted it that way


Not to get BACK to the Resistance; to get to them in the first place. At that point he and Rey still hadn't found them and that's who he is looking for while Rey is now focused on finding Luke and sticking with Han. They only join up with them after Maz's place is attacked and they are saved by Poe and co..

No way. At that point, he was running from the First Order. He thought the resistance was futile and could never win. He kept telling Han that, and he felt guilty. He kept trying to convince Rey to go away with him so they could get lost. He came back to get Rey when the First Order came but it was too late. That's the only reason he went with Han.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Tim » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:24 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:Finn was leaving Maz’s to get back to the Resistance? I never interpreted it that way


Not to get BACK to the Resistance; to get to them in the first place. At that point he and Rey still hadn't found them and that's who he is looking for while Rey is now focused on finding Luke and sticking with Han. They only join up with them after Maz's place is attacked and they are saved by Poe and co..

You need to rewatch that scene.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:24 pm

CubinNY wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:Finn was leaving Maz’s to get back to the Resistance? I never interpreted it that way


Not to get BACK to the Resistance; to get to them in the first place. At that point he and Rey still hadn't found them and that's who he is looking for while Rey is now focused on finding Luke and sticking with Han. They only join up with them after Maz's place is attacked and they are saved by Poe and co..

No way. At that point, he was running from the First Order. He thought the resistance was futile and could never win. He kept telling Han that, and he felt guilty. He kept trying to convince Rey to go away with him so they could get lost. He came back to get Rey when the First Order came but it was too late. That's the only reason he went with Han.


That's right; I need to watch TFA again. I was thinking of him pretending to be with the Resistance when they met, but he was just doing that to try and impress her and to get her to listen to him/follow his orders.

Still, he has shown that he is fiercely loyal to Rey, so if he says he was leaving because of her I'm inclined to believe it.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Tim » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:27 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
CubinNY wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Not to get BACK to the Resistance; to get to them in the first place. At that point he and Rey still hadn't found them and that's who he is looking for while Rey is now focused on finding Luke and sticking with Han. They only join up with them after Maz's place is attacked and they are saved by Poe and co..

No way. At that point, he was running from the First Order. He thought the resistance was futile and could never win. He kept telling Han that, and he felt guilty. He kept trying to convince Rey to go away with him so they could get lost. He came back to get Rey when the First Order came but it was too late. That's the only reason he went with Han.


That's right; I need to watch TFA again. I was thinking of him pretending to be with the Resistance when they met, but he was just doing that to try and impress her and to get her to listen to him/follow his orders.

Still, he has shown that he is fiercely loyal to Rey, so if he says he was leaving because of her I'm inclined to believe it.

I think he was trying to both run away from the FO and not have Rey arrive back at a doomed situation.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:32 pm

Tim wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
CubinNY wrote:No way. At that point, he was running from the First Order. He thought the resistance was futile and could never win. He kept telling Han that, and he felt guilty. He kept trying to convince Rey to go away with him so they could get lost. He came back to get Rey when the First Order came but it was too late. That's the only reason he went with Han.


That's right; I need to watch TFA again. I was thinking of him pretending to be with the Resistance when they met, but he was just doing that to try and impress her and to get her to listen to him/follow his orders.

Still, he has shown that he is fiercely loyal to Rey, so if he says he was leaving because of her I'm inclined to believe it.

I think he was trying to both run away from the FO and not have Rey arrive back at a doomed situation.


Makes sense. In my head I just justify it that he figured the Rebels were done for at that moment and he can't possibly help Rey if he's dead, so he wasn't still just running to simply get away like before. I like the character too much, I guess.
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby TBS Playoffs Insider » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:34 pm

In TFA he was fleeing, the scene in TLJ felt more like "im trapped here and I have a goal I need to accomplish, but now I'm sheepish because I got caught and it looks like I'm running away"
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:39 pm

The more I think about it, the more horrified I am that he's abandoning his true love.

Though imagine if Poe and Finn actually became a thing, and one day they're just hanging out, doing whatever, and Poe suddenly looks up and says, "hey, remember that time I NAMED you?"
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Re: ♫ Star Wars, nothing but...Star Wars! ♫

Postby Banedon » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:40 pm

Just to pick on Star Wars tech again, I love how seriously, gravely injured people in this universe are just unconscious for a while, and then when they suddenly wake up they're all better...no real prolonged recovery time. Luke after he was frozen on Hoth, Leia after she got sucked into space, Finn after he got lightsabered...

Of course, Amidala died of a broken heart and the tech couldn't do anything for that one.
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