Bears offseason

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Re: Bears offseason

Postby jersey cubs fan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:11 am

The bear rightfully fired lovie 6 years ago for winning, but not frequently enough. And now 3 years into Ryan Pac's tenure the quarterback depth chart is mike Glennon and Mark Sanchez.




Amazing
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby Stannis » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:49 am

Mark Sanchez is an old man who lives at the school.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby Sosa21MVP » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:52 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:The bear rightfully fired lovie 6 years ago for winning, but not frequently enough. And now 3 years into Ryan Pac's tenure the quarterback depth chart is mike Glennon and Mark Sanchez.

Amazing


#-o
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby Banedon » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:09 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:The bear rightfully fired lovie 6 years ago for winning, but not frequently enough. And now 3 years into Ryan Pac's tenure the quarterback depth chart is mike Glennon and Mark Sanchez.




Amazing


Jerry Angelo looks like a genius nowadays.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:06 pm

Banedon wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:The bear rightfully fired lovie 6 years ago for winning, but not frequently enough. And now 3 years into Ryan Pac's tenure the quarterback depth chart is mike Glennon and Mark Sanchez.




Amazing


Jerry Angelo looks like a genius nowadays.

:?

Even against the comparison of 9-23, I'll hold off the genius talk. That said, he understood the importance of impact players and he actually closed on getting some.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby jersey cubs fan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:54 pm

davell wrote:We are in a really weird spot, with Pace and Fox. I'm starting to think they're truly tied together. Both signed 4 year deals. So, what happens if we go 5-11? Does Pace get to hire another coach? Or is he stuck with Fox? Because, if we keep Fox in place, it allows for both to be fired simultaneously.


I really just feel like the Bears are trying to copy the Cubs.

Pace has been so deliberate with his rebuild that he has to have some reassurance from ownership that it's fine to take his time. The McCaskeys aren't really risking a financial hit by not being good. Their profits are essentially guaranteed with the league shared television revenue. The season tickets are sold and they don't have any reliance on walk up sales or ratings. The McCaskeys see that the Ricketts took a minimal PR hit as the team stumbled for years while rebuilding. They view themselves in the same mold as the Tisch/Mara/Rooney blue blood ownership of the Giants and Steelers and the thing that ties them together (besides mating) is longterm stability in the front office and head coach. With that they also want to be the opposite of the "new money" types like Haslam and Snyder who they probably view as making a mockery of storied franchises with their constant turmoil.

They probably think Pace is their Theo and will give him as long as possible before moving on and will probably give him every opportunity to either win with Fox, or select his new head coach like Theo got to take a run at Madden after the Sveum/Renteria years.

If year 3 is a 5-11 year, obviously Pace is doing a horrible job, consider the vast differences between MLB talent procurement and timing and the NFL's draft and play right away situation. But my guess is nobody in the McCaskey family cares.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:28 pm

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Re: Bears offseason

Postby davell » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:35 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
davell wrote:We are in a really weird spot, with Pace and Fox. I'm starting to think they're truly tied together. Both signed 4 year deals. So, what happens if we go 5-11? Does Pace get to hire another coach? Or is he stuck with Fox? Because, if we keep Fox in place, it allows for both to be fired simultaneously.


I really just feel like the Bears are trying to copy the Cubs.

Pace has been so deliberate with his rebuild that he has to have some reassurance from ownership that it's fine to take his time. The McCaskeys aren't really risking a financial hit by not being good. Their profits are essentially guaranteed with the league shared television revenue. The season tickets are sold and they don't have any reliance on walk up sales or ratings. The McCaskeys see that the Ricketts took a minimal PR hit as the team stumbled for years while rebuilding. They view themselves in the same mold as the Tisch/Mara/Rooney blue blood ownership of the Giants and Steelers and the thing that ties them together (besides mating) is longterm stability in the front office and head coach. With that they also want to be the opposite of the "new money" types like Haslam and Snyder who they probably view as making a mockery of storied franchises with their constant turmoil.

They probably think Pace is their Theo and will give him as long as possible before moving on and will probably give him every opportunity to either win with Fox, or select his new head coach like Theo got to take a run at Madden after the Sveum/Renteria years.

If year 3 is a 5-11 year, obviously Pace is doing a horrible job, consider the vast differences between MLB talent procurement and timing and the NFL's draft and play right away situation. But my guess is nobody in the McCaskey family cares.


Pace isn't Theo(no one is) and this wasn't necessary to do. But now that it IS being done, I THINK I want to see it thru. If 5-11 happens, my mind probably changes.

I don't hate Pace yet. But, I'm far from convinced he's got answers either. Which is an indictment, I suppose. Because we SHOULD be seeing more than what we've gotten to this point.

This draft is insanely important. And if its not a home run, my fear is Pace overcompensates next year in FA and sets us back to square one for the next guy.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby rawaction » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:40 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
davell wrote:We are in a really weird spot, with Pace and Fox. I'm starting to think they're truly tied together. Both signed 4 year deals. So, what happens if we go 5-11? Does Pace get to hire another coach? Or is he stuck with Fox? Because, if we keep Fox in place, it allows for both to be fired simultaneously.


I really just feel like the Bears are trying to copy the Cubs.

Pace has been so deliberate with his rebuild that he has to have some reassurance from ownership that it's fine to take his time. The McCaskeys aren't really risking a financial hit by not being good. Their profits are essentially guaranteed with the league shared television revenue. The season tickets are sold and they don't have any reliance on walk up sales or ratings. The McCaskeys see that the Ricketts took a minimal PR hit as the team stumbled for years while rebuilding. They view themselves in the same mold as the Tisch/Mara/Rooney blue blood ownership of the Giants and Steelers and the thing that ties them together (besides mating) is longterm stability in the front office and head coach. With that they also want to be the opposite of the "new money" types like Haslam and Snyder who they probably view as making a mockery of storied franchises with their constant turmoil.

They probably think Pace is their Theo and will give him as long as possible before moving on and will probably give him every opportunity to either win with Fox, or select his new head coach like Theo got to take a run at Madden after the Sveum/Renteria years.

If year 3 is a 5-11 year, obviously Pace is doing a horrible job, consider the vast differences between MLB talent procurement and timing and the NFL's draft and play right away situation. But my guess is nobody in the McCaskey family cares.


I've heard rumors that Fox has been basically guaranteed a 4th year. Which actually makes some amount of sense because you're likely going to draft a QB and don't want him switching staffs after his 1st year. Which obviously would mean Pace is guaranteed at least a 4th year.

I don't want to be one of those teams that fires coaches and GMs after just 2-3 years, but I more don't want this. They had stagnation for years. Now it's utter failure. They were a 6-7 win team on paper last year that won 3. I agree this team has 5-11 written all over it on paper for 2017. Any underachievement and I don't see how you can justify keeping a HC after consecutive 12+ loss seasons. MAYBE Pace's job is safe if he pulls a few more promising players out of this draft, with 1 being a QB. But results need to start happening.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby davell » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:47 pm

I think from a job security standpoint, Pace is better served putting off QB another year.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:58 pm

If we take the view that maybe Pace is purposefully being bad/taking time, I'm not sure how well he is carrying out that strategy in terms of long term development. Why was Jay around at all last year, for instance? Why wasn't he more active trying to capitalize Alshons value? If hes trying to be Theo, he isnt going full tilt on it. That would be the Browns.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby jersey cubs fan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:11 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:If we take the view that maybe Pace is purposefully being bad/taking time, I'm not sure how well he is carrying out that strategy in terms of long term development. Why was Jay around at all last year, for instance? Why wasn't he more active trying to capitalize Alshons value? If hes trying to be Theo, he isnt going full tilt on it. That would be the Browns.

I didn't say Pace is trying to be Theo (football people almost across the board think everybody involved in baseball are pu$$!&$). I said maybe the McCaskeys think he's a Theo, and because of that they are willing to lose in the short-term and give him time. Pace doesn't want to lose 95 games and draft in the top 3. He wants to win games while he's building but what he most wants to do is take the BPA in as many drafts as possible, while letting older players go elsewhere.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby rawaction » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:17 pm

davell wrote:We are in a really weird spot, with Pace and Fox. I'm starting to think they're truly tied together. Both signed 4 year deals. So, what happens if we go 5-11? Does Pace get to hire another coach? Or is he stuck with Fox? Because, if we keep Fox in place, it allows for both to be fired simultaneously.

I'm bringing it up because if we DO go 5-11 and fire Fox.....It puts a new head coaching hire on Pace, who'd be entering the last year of his deal. And if he doesn't show serious progress himself by year 4, he's likely gone too. And then you've got another coaching change on the horizon, so the new GM can get his guy.

So, do you extend Pace, even in a 5-11 year and let him hire a second coach?

If you do, then that guy gets his own QB too most likely.

I think a lot of this will play itself out, with how we address QB in the draft, personally.

1) In order to placate Fox(and attempt to win), I doubt our 1st is a QB. If it is, I honestly don't know if that means Pace is safe or in trouble. Hell, if I'm him and trying to save my job, I'd probably hold off on the 1st round QB, because its a known entity long before his contract is up.

2) But, if our 2nd or 3rd is a QB.....I'd say Pace is on the hotseat and needs to show that Glennon OR that 2/3rd round guy IS the QB of the future, to help preserve his own job.

3) If the QB drafted is a Dobbs, Rush, Kelly, Knight type, then my guess is Pace knows Fox is gone after 2017 and is safe himself, with his new hire getting to use a top pick on a QB.


Interesting way to look at it (re: #3). I think a couple things could save Pace.

1. Fox is old. He's young. Can save a lot of face by having Fox "retire" after the season. Then can put a lot of blame on the pressure to get a veteran QB in Fox's last year(s).

2. He could have a 3rd decent draft, while not having much to show for it record-wise. If Pace can go into the offseason boasting Goldman, Floyd, Whitehair, a potential future QB and 2 other promising players from the 2017 draft, and then get something out of White and maybe Hall shows some more promise....he could have an argument to keep his job.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby davell » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:15 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:If we take the view that maybe Pace is purposefully being bad/taking time, I'm not sure how well he is carrying out that strategy in terms of long term development. Why was Jay around at all last year, for instance? Why wasn't he more active trying to capitalize Alshons value? If hes trying to be Theo, he isnt going full tilt on it. That would be the Browns.

I didn't say Pace is trying to be Theo (football people almost across the board think everybody involved in baseball are pu$$!&$). I said maybe the McCaskeys think he's a Theo, and because of that they are willing to lose in the short-term and give him time. Pace doesn't want to lose 95 games and draft in the top 3. He wants to win games while he's building but what he most wants to do is take the BPA in as many drafts as possible, while letting older players go elsewhere.


He lost a hell of a lot more than the baseball equivalent of 95. If he's trying to win, we're really in trouble. And I swear I'd be more comfortable with the Bears if they gave Pace's job to Theo and he GM'd football while taking his morning poop and walk home from his real job.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby jersey cubs fan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:18 pm

davell wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:If we take the view that maybe Pace is purposefully being bad/taking time, I'm not sure how well he is carrying out that strategy in terms of long term development. Why was Jay around at all last year, for instance? Why wasn't he more active trying to capitalize Alshons value? If hes trying to be Theo, he isnt going full tilt on it. That would be the Browns.

I didn't say Pace is trying to be Theo (football people almost across the board think everybody involved in baseball are pu$$!&$). I said maybe the McCaskeys think he's a Theo, and because of that they are willing to lose in the short-term and give him time. Pace doesn't want to lose 95 games and draft in the top 3. He wants to win games while he's building but what he most wants to do is take the BPA in as many drafts as possible, while letting older players go elsewhere.


He lost a hell of a lot more than the baseball equivalent of 95. If he's trying to win, we're really in trouble. And I swear I'd be more comfortable with the Bears if they gave Pace's job to Theo and he GM'd football while taking his morning poop and walk home from his real job.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Pace tried to field an 8 or 9 win team while building for more and failed miserably.

And remember, his resume is built on pro scouting (free agency), not college scouting and drafts.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby davell » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:25 pm

The closer to the draft we get, the more these QB's stock appears to be moving upward. Smoke or real? I guess we'll find out soon enough, but there was even a rumor Webb could go late 1st yesterday....

Now, that's probably BS.....But, the good news is that it maybe puts a trade down more into play. I'd feel much better about a QB in the 1st, if we added a 2nd or something to go with him.

Especially since I legitimately don't have a feel yet for the order of how the QB's get drafted this year.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:26 pm

davell wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:If we take the view that maybe Pace is purposefully being bad/taking time, I'm not sure how well he is carrying out that strategy in terms of long term development. Why was Jay around at all last year, for instance? Why wasn't he more active trying to capitalize Alshons value? If hes trying to be Theo, he isnt going full tilt on it. That would be the Browns.

I didn't say Pace is trying to be Theo (football people almost across the board think everybody involved in baseball are pu$$!&$). I said maybe the McCaskeys think he's a Theo, and because of that they are willing to lose in the short-term and give him time. Pace doesn't want to lose 95 games and draft in the top 3. He wants to win games while he's building but what he most wants to do is take the BPA in as many drafts as possible, while letting older players go elsewhere.


He lost a hell of a lot more than the baseball equivalent of 95. If he's trying to win, we're really in trouble. And I swear I'd be more comfortable with the Bears if they gave Pace's job to Theo and he GM'd football while taking his morning poop and walk home from his real job.

I can excuse the first two years to a large extent. 2015 was a legitimate reset year from the turmoil of 2014, and they still managed to improve by a game. Last year sucked, but maybe was kinda fluky with injuries and just the wring side of close games (PFR put their estimate at 4.8-11.2). 2017 he doesn't get to claim improvement from a 3-13 team though. He has to make the entire case for those three years, and basically pick up from where they should have been.

Hard to imagine a scenario where he has another draft like last year and they aren't a .500 team. I guess they have a tough schedule...?

You could probably make a pretty simple grading scale for Pace solely based on record;
12 A
11 A-
10 B
9 B-
8 C
7 C-
6 D
5 F
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby davell » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:26 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
davell wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:I didn't say Pace is trying to be Theo (football people almost across the board think everybody involved in baseball are pu$$!&$). I said maybe the McCaskeys think he's a Theo, and because of that they are willing to lose in the short-term and give him time. Pace doesn't want to lose 95 games and draft in the top 3. He wants to win games while he's building but what he most wants to do is take the BPA in as many drafts as possible, while letting older players go elsewhere.


He lost a hell of a lot more than the baseball equivalent of 95. If he's trying to win, we're really in trouble. And I swear I'd be more comfortable with the Bears if they gave Pace's job to Theo and he GM'd football while taking his morning poop and walk home from his real job.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Pace tried to field an 8 or 9 win team while building for more and failed miserably.

And remember, his resume is built on pro scouting (free agency), not college scouting and drafts.


horsefeathers, you're talking me into wanting him gone now.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby Omar » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:50 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:The bear rightfully fired lovie 6 years ago for winning, but not frequently enough. And now 3 years into Ryan Pac's tenure the quarterback depth chart is mike Glennon and Mark Sanchez.




Amazing


I keep telling myself: Not all Chicago teams can be great at the same time.

2/4 ain't bad.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby UMFan83 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:58 pm

Omar wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:The bear rightfully fired lovie 6 years ago for winning, but not frequently enough. And now 3 years into Ryan Pac's tenure the quarterback depth chart is mike Glennon and Mark Sanchez.




Amazing


I keep telling myself: Not all Chicago teams can be great at the same time.

2/4 ain't bad.


Dammit I want a Boston where all teams have won a title in the last decade and are consistently in the playoffs 80% of each team's seasons.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby rawaction » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:01 pm

davell wrote:The closer to the draft we get, the more these QB's stock appears to be moving upward. Smoke or real? I guess we'll find out soon enough, but there was even a rumor Webb could go late 1st yesterday....

Now, that's probably BS.....But, the good news is that it maybe puts a trade down more into play. I'd feel much better about a QB in the 1st, if we added a 2nd or something to go with him.

Especially since I legitimately don't have a feel yet for the order of how the QB's get drafted this year.


I don't understand why this keeps being a point of emphasis for you guys. It makes no sense to me.

You don't like the QB class, but you acknowledge the need to take one. But you are advocating taking what would likely be the 3rd or 4th QB off the board w/ a trade down or waiting a round? That makes no sense. If you can't separate the QBs enough to figure out which one is the best, you don't just take whatever one is left when other teams pick their guy. You actually have to figure out which one is the best and take him. That's how you end up with Rex Grossman and Cade McNown.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby JonJayCutler » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:13 pm

As a Magic fan I feel like Pace and Rob Hennigan are related. They look kinda similar and are both terrible at what they do, although the former still has a ways to go to catch up with the latter.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:18 pm

rawaction wrote:
davell wrote:The closer to the draft we get, the more these QB's stock appears to be moving upward. Smoke or real? I guess we'll find out soon enough, but there was even a rumor Webb could go late 1st yesterday....

Now, that's probably BS.....But, the good news is that it maybe puts a trade down more into play. I'd feel much better about a QB in the 1st, if we added a 2nd or something to go with him.

Especially since I legitimately don't have a feel yet for the order of how the QB's get drafted this year.


I don't understand why this keeps being a point of emphasis for you guys. It makes no sense to me.

You don't like the QB class, but you acknowledge the need to take one. But you are advocating taking what would likely be the 3rd or 4th QB off the board w/ a trade down or waiting a round? That makes no sense. If you can't separate the QBs enough to figure out which one is the best, you don't just take whatever one is left when other teams pick their guy. You actually have to figure out which one is the best and take him. That's how you end up with Rex Grossman and Cade McNown.


I'm with you. Take your top guy at #3 or wait to see who's left in Rd 2-3. To me, trading down only makes sense if there is an impact player outside of QB you want later in the first, but you could just as easily scratch that itch at #3
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby David » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:34 pm

davell wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
davell wrote:
He lost a hell of a lot more than the baseball equivalent of 95. If he's trying to win, we're really in trouble. And I swear I'd be more comfortable with the Bears if they gave Pace's job to Theo and he GM'd football while taking his morning poop and walk home from his real job.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Pace tried to field an 8 or 9 win team while building for more and failed miserably.

And remember, his resume is built on pro scouting (free agency), not college scouting and drafts.


horsefeathers, you're talking me into wanting him gone now.

I mean, drafting hasn't exactly been a weak point so far.

One very good draft and one ehh one before he got his own guys on staff.
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Re: Bears offseason

Postby davell » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:38 pm

rawaction wrote:
davell wrote:The closer to the draft we get, the more these QB's stock appears to be moving upward. Smoke or real? I guess we'll find out soon enough, but there was even a rumor Webb could go late 1st yesterday....

Now, that's probably BS.....But, the good news is that it maybe puts a trade down more into play. I'd feel much better about a QB in the 1st, if we added a 2nd or something to go with him.

Especially since I legitimately don't have a feel yet for the order of how the QB's get drafted this year.


I don't understand why this keeps being a point of emphasis for you guys. It makes no sense to me.

You don't like the QB class, but you acknowledge the need to take one. But you are advocating taking what would likely be the 3rd or 4th QB off the board w/ a trade down or waiting a round? That makes no sense. If you can't separate the QBs enough to figure out which one is the best, you don't just take whatever one is left when other teams pick their guy. You actually have to figure out which one is the best and take him. That's how you end up with Rex Grossman and Cade McNown.


Actually, I'm perfectly fine taking one in 4-7. And its entirely possible that we either 1) value them all closely or 2) don't like any of them.

If you value them all closely and think you are forced to take one early this year, adding another potential impact player with a second round pick IS worth a lot, especially when its not even definite that the guy you have ranked 1st will even be off the board when you pick.

You sound like Kyle back when he was disappointed we didn't give Schwarber full slot value in the draft. Sometimes you can get your guy AND get more with it too.

Plus, a trade down doesn't even guarantee that a QB is off the board yet. And anyway, if San Fran takes a QB at 2, then YOU may not be getting your top guy even if you stay at 3. You still taking a QB then, with your thoughts?

I hope we wait until 2018.
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Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.


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