Bulls offseason

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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby David » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:58 pm

Those are two absolute garbage players. They don't beat the horsefeathers out of anything.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby Splendid Splinter » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:20 pm

David wrote:Those are two absolute garbage players. They don't beat the horsefeathers out of anything.


What 2 players on the Bulls before the PG trade happened you think would've beaten Oladipo/Sabonis offer in order to land him?
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby davell » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:49 pm

David wrote:Those are two absolute garbage players. They don't beat the horsefeathers out of anything.


Absolutely correct. Other than Oladipo would have been the 2nd best player on the Bulls.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby David » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:04 pm

davell wrote:
David wrote:Those are two absolute garbage players. They don't beat the horsefeathers out of anything.


Absolutely correct. Other than Oladipo would have been the 2nd best player on the Bulls.


Interesting.

He would've ranked as follows on the Bulls' roster last year and then vs. players currently on the roster (even though in this theoretical world, jimmy would've still been on the roster - I'm figuring that second part manually so forgive any errors)

PER - 9th (efficiency stat so obviously playing time is a factor here)/5th
Win Shares (his 2222 minutes would've been 3rd on the team) - 3rd/2nd
WS/48 (win shares adjusted for playing time - per 48 minutes) - 10th/6th
VORP - 7th/5th


I get if you aren't all about basketball metrics/efficiency stats, but that would seem a long way from the certainty you seem to have about it.

Mainly my point isn't so much about the Bulls players as much as it is I have no idea what you see in Oladipo nor what makes you think he beats the crap out of anyone.
Last edited by David on Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby David » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:05 pm

Splendid Splinter wrote:
David wrote:Those are two absolute garbage players. They don't beat the horsefeathers out of anything.


What 2 players on the Bulls before the PG trade happened you think would've beaten Oladipo/Sabonis offer in order to land him?


i'm not here to argue about what mediocre to bad players are better than which other ones.

my point is that if the trend seems to be star players are going for too little, you don't trade your undervalued star player. you start doing GM things and attempting to acquire one of said star players. and you have jimmy butler attempt to recruit to get you somewhere if need be.

odds might be slim but i have little doubt that it's a higher percentage play toward contention/being very good than making an awful trade of one of the best 10-15 players in the league wherein you receive poor value in order to tank toward draft picks.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby David » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:19 pm

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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby davell » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:40 pm

Basketball metrics are too weird, for me to use with any certainty. I don't think there's any question Oladipo would move directly into a starters role, just as he did with OKC and Orlando. I don't even think his contract is bad. Its just the going rate nowadays. And I think most teams would easily value a guy that's already got a starting track record, with decent numbers, to a mid round pick, or any of the Sabonisish type of young guys the Bulls have.....Meaning Portis, Valentine, they're all just guys with no success at this stage. Just a guy that was drafted top 20 or whatever.....


As for Jimmy recruiting.....You were putting all your eggs in THIS basket of FA or the next, because that's all you had him for.....What happens when you watch him strike out? Its not a knock on Jimmy either. I don't think you'd see too many guys want to come in and play in Chicago.....Wade did, because of the money, and because he's from Chicago and Miami was dicking him around and he was hurt.....The Bulls can win out on non-max guys. But, the max guys want to surround themselves with a better top guy than Jimmy. Not to mention, I think anyone would have questions about trusting our FO to put together the finished product.

After those 2 years, are you prepared to super max Jimmy? Because if you don't, you know he'd leave. Then you're paying him THAT in his decline years.....And stuck in 35-45 win hell for that contract too.

I'm definitely pro-tank. I'm not UPSET with what we got as the return. Even if I did expect at least a bit more.(keeping pick 16 and getting a future 1st from Minny too, is what I'd say was fair) But, it put us down this track, which I think was correct. Mainly, because I don't think his value would do anything but go downwards from here. And unfortunately, Ainge is just sitting in a locked room, doing his best Gollum imitation, when it comes to his picks. So, I'm past even thinking Boston was realistic.

Going forward? I can poke holes all over the place. This team isn't bad enough to do the intended tanking. I'm not seeing them trying to add assets, by taking on horsefeathers contracts.....Rondo was supposed to do that, maybe the TPE will, or our cap space, if we're operating under the cap. I'm still not sure, but think we're trying to operate above, so the TPE can be used.

At any rate, they need to add more picks and youngsters, while getting rid of Wade and Lopez, if there's any takers for him.(looks like teams aren't in need of bigs). Because I'll gladly admit that trading Jimmy is stupid, if you're still going to be a 30+ win team, which I think this is.....
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby MarkR » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:52 pm

davell wrote:Basketball metrics are too weird, for me to use with any certainty. I don't think there's any question Oladipo would move directly into a starters role, just as he did with OKC and Orlando. I don't even think his contract is bad. Its just the going rate nowadays. And I think most teams would easily value a guy that's already got a starting track record, with decent numbers, to a mid round pick, or any of the Sabonisish type of young guys the Bulls have.....Meaning Portis, Valentine, they're all just guys with no success at this stage. Just a guy that was drafted top 20 or whatever.....


As for Jimmy recruiting.....You were putting all your eggs in THIS basket of FA or the next, because that's all you had him for.....What happens when you watch him strike out? Its not a knock on Jimmy either. I don't think you'd see too many guys want to come in and play in Chicago.....Wade did, because of the money, and because he's from Chicago and Miami was dicking him around and he was hurt.....The Bulls can win out on non-max guys. But, the max guys want to surround themselves with a better top guy than Jimmy. Not to mention, I think anyone would have questions about trusting our FO to put together the finished product.

After those 2 years, are you prepared to super max Jimmy? Because if you don't, you know he'd leave. Then you're paying him THAT in his decline years.....And stuck in 35-45 win hell for that contract too.

I'm definitely pro-tank. I'm not UPSET with what we got as the return. Even if I did expect at least a bit more.(keeping pick 16 and getting a future 1st from Minny too, is what I'd say was fair) But, it put us down this track, which I think was correct. Mainly, because I don't think his value would do anything but go downwards from here. And unfortunately, Ainge is just sitting in a locked room, doing his best Gollum imitation, when it comes to his picks. So, I'm past even thinking Boston was realistic.

Going forward? I can poke holes all over the place. This team isn't bad enough to do the intended tanking. I'm not seeing them trying to add assets, by taking on horsefeathers contracts.....Rondo was supposed to do that, maybe the TPE will, or our cap space, if we're operating under the cap. I'm still not sure, but think we're trying to operate above, so the TPE can be used.

At any rate, they need to add more picks and youngsters, while getting rid of Wade and Lopez, if there's any takers for him.(looks like teams aren't in need of bigs). Because I'll gladly admit that trading Jimmy is stupid, if you're still going to be a 30+ win team, which I think this is.....


There is no way this is a 30 win team as currently constructed.

They'll be awful.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby davell » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:13 pm

I think you're underestimating what the East looks like after these moves. The Pacers, Hawks, Magic, Nets, and Knicks are all as bad as we are. The Suns too, especially since they're now back in retank mode. Add in a few wins against below average teams, of which there are a bunch.....I do think this is a 30 win team.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby UMFan83 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:04 pm

Read this in a Trib article. This could have worked:

According to a source, Butler’s plan after meeting in June with vice president of basketball operations John Paxson and general manager Gar Forman was to talk Kyle Lowry into a free-agent meeting, then really go on the hunt for another superstar next summer when more money came off the books.


I was team blow it up, but the one thing that sucks about trading our only superstar is that we lose a lot of rep and credibility around the league. I can't think of many stars that have jumped to a team in FA that doesn't have one of their buddies from the NBA inner circle already in place. With enough cap space Chicago could be an attractive destination for a couple of FA's to team up and sign together, but I don't think GarPax or the Bulls org in general has a good rep amongst players right now and I doubt people like Jimmy or Wade would vouch for the Bulls either. So this makes the rebuild that much harder if JR is insisting on keeping the GarPax dynamic. We have to hit on lottery picks and have them develop quickly otherwise its looking like a 5+ year rebuild.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby SpongeWorthy » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:23 pm

just lol @ the bulls SL box score from today
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby Derwood » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:26 am

SpongeWorthy wrote:just lol @ the bulls SL box score from today


What's not to love about 22% FG shooting and 11% from 3?
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby Flames24Rulz » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:35 pm

UMFan83 wrote:Read this in a Trib article. This could have worked:

According to a source, Butler’s plan after meeting in June with vice president of basketball operations John Paxson and general manager Gar Forman was to talk Kyle Lowry into a free-agent meeting, then really go on the hunt for another superstar next summer when more money came off the books.


I was team blow it up, but the one thing that sucks about trading our only superstar is that we lose a lot of rep and credibility around the league. I can't think of many stars that have jumped to a team in FA that doesn't have one of their buddies from the NBA inner circle already in place. With enough cap space Chicago could be an attractive destination for a couple of FA's to team up and sign together, but I don't think GarPax or the Bulls org in general has a good rep amongst players right now and I doubt people like Jimmy or Wade would vouch for the Bulls either. So this makes the rebuild that much harder if JR is insisting on keeping the GarPax dynamic. We have to hit on lottery picks and have them develop quickly otherwise its looking like a 5+ year rebuild.


5+ years feels pretty generous, tbh.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby UMFan83 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:38 pm

Kyrie asks for a trade and the theres this:



Hmm why would Kyrie want to play in Minnesota specifically?
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:56 pm

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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby UMFan83 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:11 pm

CaliforniaRaisin wrote:


Leave it to GarPax to finally give in and rebuild right when their retooling plan became a legit possibility
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby David » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:25 pm

we knew about this and i brought it up when i was arguing against trading butler
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby UMFan83 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:35 pm

David wrote:we knew about this and i brought it up when i was arguing against trading butler


Yep and that is when I started to turn. I didn't think Irving wanted out that badly though. Figured it was just a possibility if/when LeBron leaves
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby davell » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:41 am

Its great he wanted to come to Chicago. And yeah, if we could have added him, I'd have been against rebuilding too.....

Slight issue though.....The Bulls didn't have jack horsefeathers to trade for him.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:19 am

davell wrote:Its great he wanted to come to Chicago. And yeah, if we could have added him, I'd have been against rebuilding too.....

Slight issue though.....The Bulls didn't have jack horsefeathers to trade for him.



Draft picks. Lots of them
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby Splendid Splinter » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:58 am

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
davell wrote:Its great he wanted to come to Chicago. And yeah, if we could have added him, I'd have been against rebuilding too.....

Slight issue though.....The Bulls didn't have jack horsefeathers to trade for him.



Draft picks. Lots of them


Sure.



If LeBron wasn't there anymore.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:01 am

Splendid Splinter wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
davell wrote:Its great he wanted to come to Chicago. And yeah, if we could have added him, I'd have been against rebuilding too.....

Slight issue though.....The Bulls didn't have jack horsefeathers to trade for him.



Draft picks. Lots of them


Sure.



If LeBron wasn't there anymore.

Is there a realistic package from anyone the Cavs will actually trade him for? I'm skeptical.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby Splendid Splinter » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:14 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Splendid Splinter wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:

Draft picks. Lots of them


Sure.



If LeBron wasn't there anymore.

Is there a realistic package from anyone the Cavs will actually trade him for? I'm skeptical.


I have a hard time seeing it. Cavs will want someone to come back that can make an impact this season so they can "sell" LeBron on staying plus pick/whatever else. Plus there's the whole salary stuff to make it work.

For example, Kyrie to Twolves for like Wiggins+ since there's rumors he mentioned Minnesota as a possible spot. I can't see just a bunch of picks will do it unless Gilbert is fine with LeBron leaving again next year and want to be able to rebuild.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby David » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:28 pm

new road jerseys (primary road is white now)




new home jerseys



obv not much has changed. biggest thing is the name lettering.
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Re: Bulls offseason

Postby UMFan83 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:45 pm

Wtf? Is the entire NBA switching similar to the NHL?
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