2017-2018 Blackhawks

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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:35 pm

biittner77 wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:That's not one of the cheap ones. Kane, Toews, Keith, or Crawford all showing NHL.com shop discounts, particularly on home uniforms.


Toews is obviously the safe pick. Current skill level aside, he's accomplished enough that I expect to see his jersey at the UC for the rest of my life. As a Kane jersey guy...don't do it. For me it'd definitely be Crawford...given the way this season has gone, if he's healthy going into next year it's probably fair to say he's our best player. And that's before his two Cups.


Also, it's hard to see Crawford or Toews playing for someone else or ever being remembered for anything but being Hawks. That's why I bought a Hossa jersey right before they traded Saad. Turns out I would have been fine either way but that Hossa jersey will always be great.


My daughter had her birthday party at a local rink. There was a little, 4 years old maybe, who was wearing a Hossa jersey and tearing it up in hockey gear. I asked his father if he was a fan to which he asked his son “whats your name?” The kids reply: “MARIAN!”

It is a classic jersey no doubt
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby Brian707 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:53 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/968170893229740032



Yes plz



It was a done deal right around the time Jersey posted it.

I like the trade, little peeved they traded him in the Central, but maybe they got a bigger return because of that.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby biittner77 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:41 pm

I never felt like Hartman was a good fit for what the Hawks do or try to do. He's not a top 6 forward on a good team but probably top 9. They tried him up and down the line up but he couldn't really find a role that he excelled at. A lot of people are unhappy with getting a late 1st round pick for him but the Hawks have 2 guys (Saad, Debrincat) that were essentially late first round picks that fell to the second. I don't know anything about Edjsell but he seems to be playing well in the Swedish league.
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snoodmonger wrote:Schwarber dong was as swaggy a dong as you're gonna see, fellas. If he'd dropped the bat cleanly, it would've jumped up and flipped itself.

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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby littleburr24 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:23 pm

biittner77 wrote:I never felt like Hartman was a good fit for what the Hawks do or try to do. He's not a top 6 forward on a good team but probably top 9. They tried him up and down the line up but he couldn't really find a role that he excelled at. A lot of people are unhappy with getting a late 1st round pick for him but the Hawks have 2 guys (Saad, Debrincat) that were essentially late first round picks that fell to the second. I don't know anything about Edjsell but he seems to be playing well in the Swedish league.


How can anyone be upset with the return for Hartman? 2 picks and a prospect? Even if it was just the picks I wouldn't have expected a first rounder for a player like Hartman. I normally don't give Bowman props but this felt like a really solid deal on his end.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby biittner77 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:11 pm

littleburr24 wrote:
biittner77 wrote:I never felt like Hartman was a good fit for what the Hawks do or try to do. He's not a top 6 forward on a good team but probably top 9. They tried him up and down the line up but he couldn't really find a role that he excelled at. A lot of people are unhappy with getting a late 1st round pick for him but the Hawks have 2 guys (Saad, Debrincat) that were essentially late first round picks that fell to the second. I don't know anything about Edjsell but he seems to be playing well in the Swedish league.


How can anyone be upset with the return for Hartman? 2 picks and a prospect? Even if it was just the picks I wouldn't have expected a first rounder for a player like Hartman. I normally don't give Bowman props but this felt like a really solid deal on his end.


Hartman is a known commodity so his floor is higher. If Edsjell takes 3 years to develop that *might* be outside of the window for Toews, Keith, etc. Same potentially goes for what could be the 30th pick in the draft.

But that doesn't take into account the money they won't have to pay Hartman (probably looking for a deal similar to what they gave Panik). Not to mention that they might be able to package their 2 first round picks to move up into the top 3 to get someone that might be an impact player next season.
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snoodmonger wrote:Schwarber dong was as swaggy a dong as you're gonna see, fellas. If he'd dropped the bat cleanly, it would've jumped up and flipped itself.

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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:40 am

Got to see them live today as they were in town to play the Ducks. Jesus they look bad. Kane was sloppy and has lost a half-step. Keith has lost a step. Seabrook has lost a step. Their D looked particularly awful, no control of the front of the net either by clearing or well-timed sticks. They outshot Anaheim, but Anaheim's shot quality was way, way higher.

Probably just overreacting from what I saw, but I don't think this is a one-year fluke. I know hockey careers have traditionally lasted longer, but Keith is 34, Seabrook is 32, Kane and Toews are 29. They're exiting their athletic primes and have a ton of playoff miles on them. They can still be useful players, but we might have seen the end of them as elite differencemakers (yes, I know, Seabrook was never quite on that level).

Combine that with the very uninspiring rest of the roster, and I think we might be headed toward something similar to what's happened to Vancouver.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby squally1313 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:04 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:Got to see them live today as they were in town to play the Ducks. Jesus they look bad. Kane was sloppy and has lost a half-step. Keith has lost a step. Seabrook has lost a step. Their D looked particularly awful, no control of the front of the net either by clearing or well-timed sticks. They outshot Anaheim, but Anaheim's shot quality was way, way higher.

Probably just overreacting from what I saw, but I don't think this is a one-year fluke. I know hockey careers have traditionally lasted longer, but Keith is 34, Seabrook is 32, Kane and Toews are 29. They're exiting their athletic primes and have a ton of playoff miles on them. They can still be useful players, but we might have seen the end of them as elite differencemakers (yes, I know, Seabrook was never quite on that level).

Combine that with the very uninspiring rest of the roster, and I think we might be headed toward something similar to what's happened to Vancouver.


I'm not willing to write them off just yet. It's been pretty obvious that Kane, Keith, probably Toews to a certain extent have been checked out for about a month now. They were just 24 hours removed from a third period comeback at LA where they put Kane and Toews together and they did whatever they wanted. I'll admit I have started worrying about Keith...I've accepted Seabrook's decline, but if we lose Keith as a top pairing guy too, that's probably something we can't come back from.

But there are plenty of examples of 'washed up' cores making one or two more late runs. The Ducks won the Cup in 2007, and made the conference finals last year with essentially the same core. Penguins have as many miles as the Hawks do and no one is writing them off yet, even though we were pretty much even on points until Crawford went down. Kopitar looked washed up last year (52 points, -10), and now he's back to over a point per game.

I'm hoping this group goes into their long offseason realizing the end of this run is very near (if not here), and gears up for one, ideally two more runs. We've got all four of them through 2023, and I don't think anyone denies that the last couple years are going to be ugly and largely just nostalgia based. But I think this team can still compete, this year just got away from them really quickly.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby biittner77 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:37 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:Got to see them live today as they were in town to play the Ducks. Jesus they look bad. Kane was sloppy and has lost a half-step. Keith has lost a step. Seabrook has lost a step. Their D looked particularly awful, no control of the front of the net either by clearing or well-timed sticks. They outshot Anaheim, but Anaheim's shot quality was way, way higher.

Probably just overreacting from what I saw, but I don't think this is a one-year fluke. I know hockey careers have traditionally lasted longer, but Keith is 34, Seabrook is 32, Kane and Toews are 29. They're exiting their athletic primes and have a ton of playoff miles on them. They can still be useful players, but we might have seen the end of them as elite differencemakers (yes, I know, Seabrook was never quite on that level).

Combine that with the very uninspiring rest of the roster, and I think we might be headed toward something similar to what's happened to Vancouver.


Seabrook was an Olympian and might very well end up in the Hall of Fame. He's not that guy now but he once was among the top tier of defensemen. If you mean that he was overshadowed by those guys then that's certainly true.
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snoodmonger wrote:Schwarber dong was as swaggy a dong as you're gonna see, fellas. If he'd dropped the bat cleanly, it would've jumped up and flipped itself.

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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby UMFan83 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:Got to see them live today as they were in town to play the Ducks. Jesus they look bad. Kane was sloppy and has lost a half-step. Keith has lost a step. Seabrook has lost a step. Their D looked particularly awful, no control of the front of the net either by clearing or well-timed sticks. They outshot Anaheim, but Anaheim's shot quality was way, way higher.

Probably just overreacting from what I saw, but I don't think this is a one-year fluke. I know hockey careers have traditionally lasted longer, but Keith is 34, Seabrook is 32, Kane and Toews are 29. They're exiting their athletic primes and have a ton of playoff miles on them. They can still be useful players, but we might have seen the end of them as elite differencemakers (yes, I know, Seabrook was never quite on that level).

Combine that with the very uninspiring rest of the roster, and I think we might be headed toward something similar to what's happened to Vancouver.


I know this is obvious but I love to say it anyway, that if we do end up like Vancouver at least we got 3 freaking Cups out of it.

I just feel like Bowman had a really difficult job balancing the cap every year, and some of the negative things that happened were out of his control (like for instance I won't rip on him for Toews decline after signing his cap killing contract), but at the same time he made some moves that have really worked out poorly and should absolutely be criticized for. Would like to have a 23 year old Teuvo with his sexy possession stats on one of the top 2 lines right now. And I get going after rentals to win now 2 seasons ago but he spent a crapload of future assets to pick up 3 rentals in Weise, Fleischmann and Ladd and didn't even address the biggest issue on the team which was blue line depth, which led to a first round ouster. Why did we give up on Daley again? Why did we mess with the Panarin-Kane combo after arguably Kane's 2 best seasons?
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:02 pm

biittner77 wrote:
Hairyducked Idiot wrote:Got to see them live today as they were in town to play the Ducks. Jesus they look bad. Kane was sloppy and has lost a half-step. Keith has lost a step. Seabrook has lost a step. Their D looked particularly awful, no control of the front of the net either by clearing or well-timed sticks. They outshot Anaheim, but Anaheim's shot quality was way, way higher.

Probably just overreacting from what I saw, but I don't think this is a one-year fluke. I know hockey careers have traditionally lasted longer, but Keith is 34, Seabrook is 32, Kane and Toews are 29. They're exiting their athletic primes and have a ton of playoff miles on them. They can still be useful players, but we might have seen the end of them as elite differencemakers (yes, I know, Seabrook was never quite on that level).

Combine that with the very uninspiring rest of the roster, and I think we might be headed toward something similar to what's happened to Vancouver.


Seabrook was an Olympian and might very well end up in the Hall of Fame. He's not that guy now but he once was among the top tier of defensemen. If you mean that he was overshadowed by those guys then that's certainly true.


Olympian is a good fit for him. He probably wouldn't be a HOFer if not for being on a great team. Keith at his peak was a No. 1 among No. 1s. Seabrook was a good No. 2 or a weak No. 1.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:23 pm

Mineaswell follow the reverse standings as this season peters out:

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHL/West ... icago.html

If you go down to the bottom of that page, it does lottery position odds. Blackhawks have a 96% chance at finishing in a top-10 slot and 8% of top-5. And that was before today's clutch loss to Buffalo.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby UMFan83 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:46 pm

this team is not *this* bad. They had to have given up. Very strange for a veteran led team
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:31 pm

UMFan83 wrote:this team is not *this* bad. They had to have given up. Very strange for a veteran led team


They're pretty bad, though. I think we got so caught up in the "Whatever, they always plug holes" vibe to notice how bad they'd gotten on paper.

From last year's team, they dropped Hossa and Panarin (combined for almost 60 goals), Hjarlmarsson (their true second-best defenseman for awhile now), Oduya/TVR/Campbell/Roszvial (the entire back half of their D, more or less), Kruger and Panik (I loved having Kruger on the PK) and ended up losing Crawford to injury.

That's two of your best 4 forwards, a top defenseman, most of your defensive depth and a chunk of solid forwards. That's a pretty thorough gutting.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby biittner77 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:16 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:
UMFan83 wrote:this team is not *this* bad. They had to have given up. Very strange for a veteran led team


They're pretty bad, though. I think we got so caught up in the "Whatever, they always plug holes" vibe to notice how bad they'd gotten on paper.

From last year's team, they dropped Hossa and Panarin (combined for almost 60 goals), Hjarlmarsson (their true second-best defenseman for awhile now), Oduya/TVR/Campbell/Roszvial (the entire back half of their D, more or less), Kruger and Panik (I loved having Kruger on the PK) and ended up losing Crawford to injury.

That's two of your best 4 forwards, a top defenseman, most of your defensive depth and a chunk of solid forwards. That's a pretty thorough gutting.


Not sure I completely agree on the forwards. They certainly miss Panarin and Hossa but Schmaltz and DeBrincat have made up most of that offensive disparity (61-47). Had Saad been less cursed with bad luck (16 goals) it would have been about a push.

Hjalmarson is done. The Hawks were "losing" him a top defenseman regardless of whether they decided to keep him. Murphy has had an uneven season has been mostly not too bad if not sometimes very good. The rest of the back half of their D hasn't been great but neither were TVR or any of the other guys you listed.

Better goal-tending could have covered some of these shortcomings. The Hawks have a lot of young guys and young defenemen in particular have lots of growing pains.
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snoodmonger wrote:Schwarber dong was as swaggy a dong as you're gonna see, fellas. If he'd dropped the bat cleanly, it would've jumped up and flipped itself.

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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby David » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:44 am



yes, i don't care about hockey, but i'm aware of eddie o and was defintely sad about this. great news!
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:23 am

Getting housed right now by the Vancouver "haven't had a regulation win in last 12 games" Canucks. Some clutch tanking right there.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby 17 Seconds » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:02 am

i don't think Q deserves it, but it's probably time for a coaching change this offseason.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby Brian707 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:48 pm

17 Seconds wrote:i don't think Q deserves it, but it's probably time for a coaching change this offseason.



He basically said he doesn't expect to be back.

On a side note I have been on the STH waiting list since basically the Winter classic in 2009. My ticket rep called me and said that I should be getting a call for next season. I am guessing with the team sucking and the ticket prices being so high now the brokers are jumping ship as they are losing money or at best breaking even. $60 for 300 level center ice 14th row now as opposed to $15 in 2010, $40 in 2013.(this from a friend of mine who has had season tickets since the old stadium.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby biittner77 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:54 pm

I can't imagine they'd fire Q. He might resign I suppose. I'm not sure he's the right guy for a rebuild if that's what they decide to do. But I can't see the Hawks tearing it down and starting over.
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snoodmonger wrote:Schwarber dong was as swaggy a dong as you're gonna see, fellas. If he'd dropped the bat cleanly, it would've jumped up and flipped itself.

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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby UMFan83 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:02 pm

biittner77 wrote:I can't imagine they'd fire Q. He might resign I suppose. I'm not sure he's the right guy for a rebuild if that's what they decide to do. But I can't see the Hawks tearing it down and starting over.


Based on Stan's comments last night, I don't expect them to rebuild. He thinks they are a quick fix or two away from being a playoff team again.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby Brian707 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:07 pm

UMFan83 wrote:
biittner77 wrote:I can't imagine they'd fire Q. He might resign I suppose. I'm not sure he's the right guy for a rebuild if that's what they decide to do. But I can't see the Hawks tearing it down and starting over.


Based on Stan's comments last year, I don't expect them to rebuild. He thinks they are a quick fix or two away from being a playoff team again.



Yeah with Kane and Toews both turning 30 this year I don't think they would do a full rebuild.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:17 pm

I understand and respect why they wouldn't do a full rebuild, but I think there's a good chance they need it. They might have a dead cat bounce big season in them, something like 2014-15 Vancouver. But I don't see a quick path to getting back to elite status.

While Kane and Toews are "only" 30 (and 30 isn't 26 in terms of peak athletic production), Keith is at least as important as they are, is 35, and has always struggled with how many miles he's put on his legs. And they're also taking a bigger percentage of the cap than they were even during the last cup run, with less ways to circumvent the cap like they did with the Hossa deal.

No matter what else you do, you're trying to recapture the 2008-2015 level of play with stars who are no longer in their full peak and with less cap space to build around them. It's a pretty big uphill climb.

One way around it might be to get a little David Stern big-market draft lottery special next month. They're already down to the 7th overall spot, which is probably where they'll stay but the way they've been tanking lately has been impressive enough to give them a 10% chance at top-5. And even now they've got a 20% chance of getting their lottery ball pulled in the top-3.

I don't really have a strong opinion on firing Quenneville either way. I'm generally against firing high-quality coaches in an attempt to shake things up when they aren't the problem, because it feels like you get stuck with a downgrade more often than not, but if they decide to do it I won't be that upset.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby jersey cubs fan » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:42 pm

Hockey coaches have such a short shelf life that it's a little surprising he's still here. But with their cap situation and contracts they pretty much can't rebuild now anyway, so I'd look to take one last swing for next season, without mortgaging the future. If Q wants to try that, fine.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby biittner77 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:59 pm

UMFan83 wrote:
biittner77 wrote:I can't imagine they'd fire Q. He might resign I suppose. I'm not sure he's the right guy for a rebuild if that's what they decide to do. But I can't see the Hawks tearing it down and starting over.


Based on Stan's comments last year, I don't expect them to rebuild. He thinks they are a quick fix or two away from being a playoff team again.


He's not wrong. With better goal tending and better luck in terms of shooting % this year's team is still alive and who knows how far they could go. Missing the playoffs *could* be a big motivator for the core.
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Re: 2017-2018 Blackhawks

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:14 pm

Dylan Sikura's college season has ended and he'll debut with the Blackhawks probably this week. He's definitely a guy.
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