2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby David » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:47 am

beat the bucks with giannis lol
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby David » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:56 am

oh btw

Kris Dunn: 20 points, 12 assists, 4 steals, 2 blocks, 9-17.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:21 am

Seriously, I have no horsefeathering clue whether I want wins or losses.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby bcl412 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:05 am

I’m genuinely starting to wonder if playoffs are possible
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Proven Veteran » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:35 am

bcl412 wrote:I’m genuinely starting to wonder if playoffs are possible

I think they're making the playoffs.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Old Style » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:27 pm

Isn't this expected to be a deep draft? Make the playoffs and get a good pick a little further down than the lottery.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:03 pm

i mean, all but 4 of their players are 25 or younger. not that i was a fan of trading jimmy, but one that happened and they decided to tank, i was on board with rooting for a high draft pick obviously. but, maybe dumbass GarPax randomly stumbled into some talented young pieces? this does feel like a better situation than loading up the roster with disparate pieces like ancient Pau and broken down Rose and Noah to play an obsolete brand of basketball and make a run at the 4 seed every year.

this team is fun so i say root for wins at this point. i'm still not sure they make the playoffs. but if they do, cool. and they may just have to shift gears to playing the free agency game to find their star rather than hoping for a top 3 draft pick.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:18 pm

Old Style wrote:Isn't this expected to be a deep draft? Make the playoffs and get a good pick a little further down than the lottery.


Its an interesting draft. Not sure I'd say its deep. Ayton and Bagley are studs. Doncic could be too. If Porter is ever healthy, add him to this. Trae Young is fun. Bamba doesn't really interest me, but he'd be fine in the 6-10 range. Although, I don't think we're even picking in that area, once alls said and done.

Sexton could be fun. So could Knox. Miles Bridges seems like a solid pro.

That's the group I want to get 1 of. And its tiered.

Ayton/Bagley
Doncic

Young/Porter


Bamba
Sexton/Knox/Bridges


10-15(where I figure we wind up picking)
McCoy/Carter/Jackson/Mikal Bridges/Diallo/Gafford


If we wind up winning 30-35 games, I guess my hope is we take on an awful contract to add as many picks as possible. That'd hamper us in FA, but I don't think we'd be a destination for any guys as it stands anyway.

Which is why I was really wanting a top 5 pick, until this horsefeathers started happening and horsefeathering with us all lol.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:30 pm

Bobson Dugnutt wrote:i mean, all but 4 of their players are 25 or younger. not that i was a fan of trading jimmy, but one that happened and they decided to tank, i was on board with rooting for a high draft pick obviously. but, maybe dumbass GarPax randomly stumbled into some talented young pieces? this does feel like a better situation than loading up the roster with disparate pieces like ancient Pau and broken down Rose and Noah to play an obsolete brand of basketball and make a run at the 4 seed every year.

this team is fun so i say root for wins at this point. i'm still not sure they make the playoffs. but if they do, cool. and they may just have to shift gears to playing the free agency game to find their star rather than hoping for a top 3 draft pick.



Oh, they definitely got lucky with the trade. Lauri has immense potential. Dunn looks like a future AS. We haven't even seen LaVine and we don't need him to even be part of this core going forward, to feel great about the trade.

Its still GarPax though. I have zero confidence in them luring a big FA, especially without more of a core than what we've got currently.

We do NEED one of those top 5 guys. Maybe 6. I just don't see us able to get one of them though.

No idea who all gets moved in the next month. And I honestly don't think I can even get pissed, if they try and hold most of this group together for the rest of the year.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby TBS Playoffs Insider » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:12 am

Are you guys really trying to talk yourself into a first round exit and a mid-first rounder instead of one of the 5 studs at the top of the draft
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:19 am

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:Are you guys really trying to talk yourself into a first round exit and a mid-first rounder instead of one of the 5 studs at the top of the draft

When most of your roster have less than 4 years experience.... ya :dontknow:
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:48 am

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:Are you guys really trying to talk yourself into a first round exit and a mid-first rounder instead of one of the 5 studs at the top of the draft


Its horsefeathering weird. I have been pro tank, wanting to trade Jimmy, tank for a few years.....

First site of being potentially average and its kind of an unexpected fun. I DO want one of the elite guys at the top of the draft. But, there's a part of me that stupidly thinks Lauri and Dunn can both develop into All Stars and we find a FA that actually would sign in Chicago.....

Gun to my head, I hope we trade Niko soon. But, I'm not thinking that it'll happen, because he needs to produce for another 15-20 games before I'd think a team could conceivably give up a mid to late 1st for him.

In typical Bulls fashion, they're not even tanking right. But, it is kind of fun, even if its going to hurt longterm probably.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:17 pm

davell wrote:
TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:Are you guys really trying to talk yourself into a first round exit and a mid-first rounder instead of one of the 5 studs at the top of the draft


Its horsefeathering weird. I have been pro tank, wanting to trade Jimmy, tank for a few years.....

First site of being potentially average and its kind of an unexpected fun. I DO want one of the elite guys at the top of the draft. But, there's a part of me that stupidly thinks Lauri and Dunn can both develop into All Stars and we find a FA that actually would sign in Chicago.....

Gun to my head, I hope we trade Niko soon. But, I'm not thinking that it'll happen, because he needs to produce for another 15-20 games before I'd think a team could conceivably give up a mid to late 1st for him.

In typical Bulls fashion, they're not even tanking right. But, it is kind of fun, even if its going to hurt longterm probably.

A lot of tanking teams were just left with a bare cupboard. Maybe the Bulls cupboard wasn't as bare as they thought. I'm not even that high on him, but you failed to mention Lavine too.

Even Niko, although older since he came into the league at 22, is still just a 4th year player.

Even if they could somehow go back to sucking, it's clear this team isn't primed for a Philly or mid-aughts OKC type multi year tank. So the Bulls just have to let the chips fall where they will, even if it means winning games with their young guys. The key is they will have to find that FA prize, and within a couple years find also that magical consolidation trade. If those two things don't happen, then be prepared to blow up a perennial 4-5 seed type 04-05 Bulls team before locking in a bunch of nice role players and fringy all stars into bloated contracts.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:27 pm

If you try and project who we can deal, it comes down to Grant, Holiday, Lopez, and Jimi for me. You're not exactly getting a ransom for any of that group obviously.

But, we've got the ability to absorb 15 mill extra in bad contracts too. So, its definitely possible to add a couple of future 1st rounders.

The issue from a tanking perspective is you've got LaVine to take over for Holiday. Which is an upgrade. You'll get Payne as the backup PG, which helps with the tank though. If you deal Lopez and Niko, you've opened up more PT for Portis. Which probably doesn't get you more losses either though. He's really developing fast right now. This doesn't even account for any players you get in return.

I'm guessing this is a 30 win team. More if they hold onto this group and everyone stays healthy.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:34 pm

Imb is right. They're never going to attract the elite free agent so they need to draft that caliber talent if they ever actually want to compete for championships.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:37 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
davell wrote:
TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:Are you guys really trying to talk yourself into a first round exit and a mid-first rounder instead of one of the 5 studs at the top of the draft


Its horsefeathering weird. I have been pro tank, wanting to trade Jimmy, tank for a few years.....

First site of being potentially average and its kind of an unexpected fun. I DO want one of the elite guys at the top of the draft. But, there's a part of me that stupidly thinks Lauri and Dunn can both develop into All Stars and we find a FA that actually would sign in Chicago.....

Gun to my head, I hope we trade Niko soon. But, I'm not thinking that it'll happen, because he needs to produce for another 15-20 games before I'd think a team could conceivably give up a mid to late 1st for him.

In typical Bulls fashion, they're not even tanking right. But, it is kind of fun, even if its going to hurt longterm probably.

A lot of tanking teams were just left with a bare cupboard. Maybe the Bulls cupboard wasn't as bare as they thought. I'm not even that high on him, but you failed to mention Lavine too.

Even Niko, although older since he came into the league at 22, is still just a 4th year player.

Even if they could somehow go back to sucking, it's clear this team isn't primed for a Philly or mid-aughts OKC type multi year tank. So the Bulls just have to let the chips fall where they will, even if it means winning games with their young guys. The key is they will have to find that FA prize, and within a couple years find also that magical consolidation trade. If those two things don't happen, then be prepared to blow up a perennial 4-5 seed type 04-05 Bulls team before locking in a bunch of nice role players and fringy all stars into bloated contracts.



Honestly, the cupboard wasn't bare because they hit on the Jimmy trade. Getting Dunn and Lauri is why the cupboard isn't bare. Hell, if they had did it a year earlier, Dunn was going to be the main piece, but without much else, since LaVine was the hangup.

By waiting a year, they watched Thibs destroy Dunn's value, get LaVine because he got hurt AND snagged Lauri.

I hate giving those guys credit, but they played that one right for sure.

Obviously, they've got plenty of time to screw this up(and will) going forward. But, they started off right. Which is more than I thought they'd do.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby David » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:42 pm

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:Are you guys really trying to talk yourself into a first round exit and a mid-first rounder instead of one of the 5 studs at the top of the draft


If they're winning on the back of the development of Dunn, Markkanen and maybe Lavine later, I'm fine with it. Those guys are very young and if they're playing that well + free agency, it prob amounts to more of a chance of finding a star and building a real contender than having a bare cupboard + a top 3 pick.


A bare cupboard with a top 3 pick, absolute best case (the pick panning out into a stud player), makes you the Pelicans of the past few years.

EDIT - All of that said, I'd MUCH rather be in the lottery than be a fringe playoff team, obviously.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:20 pm

By the way, I agree with Raisin and Imb. The Bulls aren't getting an elite FA.

You're stuck hoping Dunn and Lauri are All Stars in the future.

That could happen and you could trade for a 3rd though. Is that enough to be a true contender? Maybe. And it's going to require best case scenarios for Lauri and Dunn too.

Finding a way to a top 5 pick, maybe top 6, IS still the best outcome most likely.

Just don't think it'll happen at this point.

Really need to move Niko, Holiday, Grant, Lopez, and absorb a bad deal. See what happens to the record by doing it. You've got 19 games left to play before the deadline. If you win more than 6 or 7 of those, the top 5 pick is going to be extremely hard to get for sure.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby David » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:28 pm

I really do not accept "chicago won't ever attract the elite free agent because they have failed to and come in 2nd like 3 times" as a real premise.

lebron could've easily happened and probably would've had rose not been a moron and had the dominos all fallen for miami the way they needed to. kobe almost happened and even tried to force his way here. mcgrady could've easily happened (a decision i think he has since expressed regret about). melo could've easily happened (thank god it didn't).

they won't until they do. all you can do is put an attractive roster together and throw a max offer out. hitting on a top draft pick as a superstar isn't some slam dunk either.
Last edited by David on Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby David » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:30 pm

davell wrote:By the way, I agree with Raisin and Imb. The Bulls aren't getting an elite FA.

You're stuck hoping Dunn and Lauri are All Stars in the future.

That could happen and you could trade for a 3rd though. Is that enough to be a true contender? Maybe. And it's going to require best case scenarios for Lauri and Dunn too.

Finding a way to a top 5 pick, maybe top 6, IS still the best outcome most likely.

Just don't think it'll happen at this point.

Really need to move Niko, Holiday, Grant, Lopez, and absorb a bad deal. See what happens to the record by doing it. You've got 19 games left to play before the deadline. If you win more than 6 or 7 of those, the top 5 pick is going to be extremely hard to get for sure.


just curious but why do you keep ignoring lavine, especially with how high you seemed to have been on him? just his contract status?
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:35 pm

David wrote:I really do not accept "chicago won't ever attract the elite free agent because they have failed to and come in 2nd like 3 times" as a real premise.

lebron could've easily happened. kobe almost happened and even tried to force his way here. mcgrady could've easily happened. melo could've easily happened (thank god it didn't).

they won't until they do. all you can do is put an attractive roster together and throw a max offer out. hitting on a top draft pick as a superstar isn't some slam dunk either.


Eh, sure, it CAN happen.....But, you've got a horrible rep to deal with currently. Trading Jimmy hurts you somewhat too. You've got guys pairing up for super teams. That hurts. You've got a young roster that isn't attractive for immediate contention if you're getting a single guy.(at least for THIS upcoming year) And you've still got GarPax running the show. Who couldn't close when they had 2 guys who were elite at the time, to add around.

Might not be 100% impossible, but the odds definitively aren't good. They ARE increasee with the addition of another elite youngster though.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:37 pm

David wrote:I really do not accept "chicago won't ever attract the elite free agent because they have failed to and come in 2nd like 3 times" as a real premise.

lebron could've easily happened. kobe almost happened and even tried to force his way here. mcgrady could've easily happened. melo could've easily happened (thank god it didn't).

they won't until they do. all you can do is put an attractive roster together and throw a max offer out. hitting on a top draft pick as a superstar isn't some slam dunk either.


yuuuup. i remember when this was also a thing that people said about the cubs. until it wasn't. circumstances change.

is it the cold weather thing or the poor management thing that makes people believe this? or something else?
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:41 pm

davell wrote:
David wrote:I really do not accept "chicago won't ever attract the elite free agent because they have failed to and come in 2nd like 3 times" as a real premise.

lebron could've easily happened. kobe almost happened and even tried to force his way here. mcgrady could've easily happened. melo could've easily happened (thank god it didn't).

they won't until they do. all you can do is put an attractive roster together and throw a max offer out. hitting on a top draft pick as a superstar isn't some slam dunk either.


Eh, sure, it CAN happen.....But, you've got a horrible rep to deal with currently. Trading Jimmy hurts you somewhat too. You've got guys pairing up for super teams. That hurts. You've got a young roster that isn't attractive for immediate contention if you're getting a single guy.(at least for THIS upcoming year) And you've still got GarPax running the show. Who couldn't close when they had 2 guys who were elite at the time, to add around.

Might not be 100% impossible, but the odds definitively aren't good. They ARE increasee with the addition of another elite youngster though.


were jimmy and rose ever elite at the same time though? legitimately asking. rose hasn't been peak rose for a long time now.

i think if enough of these guys continue to show promise the order is: try to package a few of them and picks for star #1, and hopefully that star is enough to attract star #2 via free agency.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:41 pm

David wrote:
davell wrote:By the way, I agree with Raisin and Imb. The Bulls aren't getting an elite FA.

You're stuck hoping Dunn and Lauri are All Stars in the future.

That could happen and you could trade for a 3rd though. Is that enough to be a true contender? Maybe. And it's going to require best case scenarios for Lauri and Dunn too.

Finding a way to a top 5 pick, maybe top 6, IS still the best outcome most likely.

Just don't think it'll happen at this point.

Really need to move Niko, Holiday, Grant, Lopez, and absorb a bad deal. See what happens to the record by doing it. You've got 19 games left to play before the deadline. If you win more than 6 or 7 of those, the top 5 pick is going to be extremely hard to get for sure.


just curious but why do you keep ignoring lavine, especially with how high you seemed to have been on him? just his contract status?


I think Dunn and Lauri have eclipsed him from a potential standpoint at this stage. If LaVine comes back healthy, its gravy, in my mind.

Not really trying to exclude him honestly lol. The trade has worked out so well, maybe its in the back of my mind, its not even possible to get THAT lucky lol?

Contract status doesn't really matter to me, we still control him.

He's a wild card though, for sure. If he IS a true factor, it does change the outlook going forward.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby David » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:41 pm

Bobson Dugnutt wrote:
David wrote:I really do not accept "chicago won't ever attract the elite free agent because they have failed to and come in 2nd like 3 times" as a real premise.

lebron could've easily happened. kobe almost happened and even tried to force his way here. mcgrady could've easily happened. melo could've easily happened (thank god it didn't).

they won't until they do. all you can do is put an attractive roster together and throw a max offer out. hitting on a top draft pick as a superstar isn't some slam dunk either.


yuuuup. i remember when this was also a thing that people said about the cubs. until it wasn't. circumstances change.

is it the cold weather thing or the poor management thing that makes people believe this? or something else?


i think they talk themselves into those arguments after having had their huge dreams crushed a few times. the lebron tease was terrible.
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