2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby NOLA » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:49 pm

There is absolutely nothing useful about Asik. He is completely broken down.

Greg Monroe might be signed by the Pels as soon as tomorrow. Someone have a thumbnail scouting report on Mirotic? From what I have seen, the Pels might actually be better constructed after these two moves.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Proven Veteran » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:35 am

Nice double tank loss today, helped the nearest team to the pelicans out.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby David » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:30 am

Proven Veteran wrote:Nice double tank loss today, helped the nearest team to the pelicans out.


double tank win*
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Proven Veteran » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:49 am

David wrote:
Proven Veteran wrote:Nice double tank loss today, helped the nearest team to the pelicans out.


double tank win*


Oops, good correction.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Regular Show » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:27 am

I'm very pleased with how "Operation Tanking: Bad for Bagley" is progressing lol. Bulls are slowing rising in the reverse-standings and getting closer to being in the top 5.

I need to watch more video and read more scouting reports, but I'm really not sold on L. Doncic. He's an amazing playmaker, but he isn't a great athlete or an incredible shooter. I don't even know what position he plays in the NBA. I like him and think he can be a good player, but he will struggle playing defense at the next level.

I'm still all-in on M. Bagley and think he'll be a star if he can become a consistent 3-pt shooter. All big men have to be decent shooters now in this era. He's already great at driving to the hoop and finishing. His basketball IQ is also very good. I'm pretty sure the Bulls like him too since they love Duke players so much.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:19 am

I'm not entirely sold on Bagley. I think he will be a solid NBA player but don't know if he'll ever be a true franchise player, best guy on a championship team like you hope a #1 overall pick is. Like you said he definitely needs to develop the jumper and his ball skills, imo, or else he's going to go more of the way of guys we've seen recently of not quite a 4 because he lacks shooting/quickness and defense on the perimeter/ball skills and not quite a 5 since he lacks size. I think I'd take Ayton right now if I had the #1 pick.

I know you generally just want to take BPA (especially if you think he's a franchise cornerstone) but from the Bulls perspective I also don't know exactly how well Lauri and Bagley fit together on the court at the same time.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby JLN » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:46 am

Regular Show wrote:I'm very pleased with how "Operation Tanking: Bad for Bagley" is progressing lol. Bulls are slowing rising in the reverse-standings and getting closer to being in the top 5.

I need to watch more video and read more scouting reports, but I'm really not sold on L. Doncic. He's an amazing playmaker, but he isn't a great athlete or an incredible shooter. I don't even know what position he plays in the NBA. I like him and think he can be a good player, but he will struggle playing defense at the next level.

I'm still all-in on M. Bagley and think he'll be a star if he can become a consistent 3-pt shooter. All big men have to be decent shooters now in this era. He's already great at driving to the hoop and finishing. His basketball IQ is also very good. I'm pretty sure the Bulls like him too since they love Duke players so much.


It's funny to not trust Doncic's defense but then want Bagley.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Regular Show » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:51 am

JLN wrote:
Regular Show wrote:I'm very pleased with how "Operation Tanking: Bad for Bagley" is progressing lol. Bulls are slowing rising in the reverse-standings and getting closer to being in the top 5.

I need to watch more video and read more scouting reports, but I'm really not sold on L. Doncic. He's an amazing playmaker, but he isn't a great athlete or an incredible shooter. I don't even know what position he plays in the NBA. I like him and think he can be a good player, but he will struggle playing defense at the next level.

I'm still all-in on M. Bagley and think he'll be a star if he can become a consistent 3-pt shooter. All big men have to be decent shooters now in this era. He's already great at driving to the hoop and finishing. His basketball IQ is also very good. I'm pretty sure the Bulls like him too since they love Duke players so much.


It's funny to not trust Doncic's defense but then want Bagley.


Uh, Bagley is a great athlete and has the potential to be a very good defender in time. He's not super long and doesn't possess a huge wingspan, but no one questions his athleticism. He's not big enough to play C right now, but he can guard PFs just fine and I think that's his position long-term in the NBA.

Can he guard A. Davis and J. Embiid and slow them down? Probably not, but not many people can...
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Regular Show » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:59 am

JLN wrote:
Regular Show wrote:I'm very pleased with how "Operation Tanking: Bad for Bagley" is progressing lol. Bulls are slowing rising in the reverse-standings and getting closer to being in the top 5.

I need to watch more video and read more scouting reports, but I'm really not sold on L. Doncic. He's an amazing playmaker, but he isn't a great athlete or an incredible shooter. I don't even know what position he plays in the NBA. I like him and think he can be a good player, but he will struggle playing defense at the next level.

I'm still all-in on M. Bagley and think he'll be a star if he can become a consistent 3-pt shooter. All big men have to be decent shooters now in this era. He's already great at driving to the hoop and finishing. His basketball IQ is also very good. I'm pretty sure the Bulls like him too since they love Duke players so much.


It's funny to not trust Doncic's defense but then want Bagley.


Also, Doncic is either going to be a PG or a SF in the NBA. He's not a good enough shooter to play SG, and not big enough to play PF/C.

You think he can keep up with all the elite PGs in the NBA right now? R. Westbrook, D. Lillard, K. Irving, J. Wall, K. Lowry, and on and on it goes. You think Doncic can guard J. Butler, Lebron, Durant, K. Leonard, etc. at SF?

Are you serious??? Every scout has questions about his defense at the next level.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:43 am

Its going to be extremely hard to catch Orlando, Atlanta, or Sacramento in the standings. Even though we've got the same amount of wins as Phoenix, its going to be hard to edge past them too. They've only got 7 games left against the worst 10 teams in the league.(1 at home). The Bulls have 12 of those games.(5 at home)

Realistically, without ping pong help, the Bulls are drafting 5-8. Competing with Dallas, Brooklyn, and Memphis.

I think Ayton, Bagley, and Doncic are the top tier of this draft. Porter and Bamba are the second tier, with Young and JJJ as the 3rd tier. But, I think that entire group of 7 is very, very strong.

The tank MAY get helped more this week though, evidently talks on Lopez are getting serious.....
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby JLN » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:12 pm

Regular Show wrote:
JLN wrote:
Regular Show wrote:I'm very pleased with how "Operation Tanking: Bad for Bagley" is progressing lol. Bulls are slowing rising in the reverse-standings and getting closer to being in the top 5.

I need to watch more video and read more scouting reports, but I'm really not sold on L. Doncic. He's an amazing playmaker, but he isn't a great athlete or an incredible shooter. I don't even know what position he plays in the NBA. I like him and think he can be a good player, but he will struggle playing defense at the next level.

I'm still all-in on M. Bagley and think he'll be a star if he can become a consistent 3-pt shooter. All big men have to be decent shooters now in this era. He's already great at driving to the hoop and finishing. His basketball IQ is also very good. I'm pretty sure the Bulls like him too since they love Duke players so much.


It's funny to not trust Doncic's defense but then want Bagley.


Also, Doncic is either going to be a PG or a SF in the NBA. He's not a good enough shooter to play SG, and not big enough to play PF/C.

You think he can keep up with all the elite PGs in the NBA right now? R. Westbrook, D. Lillard, K. Irving, J. Wall, K. Lowry, and on and on it goes. You think Doncic can guard J. Butler, Lebron, Durant, K. Leonard, etc. at SF?

Are you serious??? Every scout has questions about his defense at the next level.


I didn't say anything about Doncic's defense. Bagley may have the physical tools to be OK defensively, but you're projecting a lot before he hits adequate. Also, if you're still hung up on NBA positions you're knocking one guy for being a tweener while propping up another tweener.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Regular Show » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:37 pm

JLN wrote:
Regular Show wrote:
JLN wrote:
It's funny to not trust Doncic's defense but then want Bagley.


Also, Doncic is either going to be a PG or a SF in the NBA. He's not a good enough shooter to play SG, and not big enough to play PF/C.

You think he can keep up with all the elite PGs in the NBA right now? R. Westbrook, D. Lillard, K. Irving, J. Wall, K. Lowry, and on and on it goes. You think Doncic can guard J. Butler, Lebron, Durant, K. Leonard, etc. at SF?

Are you serious??? Every scout has questions about his defense at the next level.


I didn't say anything about Doncic's defense. Bagley may have the physical tools to be OK defensively, but you're projecting a lot before he hits adequate. Also, if you're still hung up on NBA positions you're knocking one guy for being a tweener while propping up another tweener.


Again, you don't know what you're talking about... Bagley doesn't just have the physical tools to be OK defensively -- he has the tools to be an above-average defender if he actually turns those tools into refined skills. Same as when you're discussing tools while talking about MLB prospects. Tools do not equal skills.

Bagley isn't really a tweener either. His listed height is 6'11" and he currently weighs 234 lbs. He's not listed as a pure PF because he plays more like a C who plays near the hoop. Most PFs have to be able to shoot all the way out to the 3-pt line, and he is capable of that. His 3-pt percentage in college is 35.4% and his shooting mechanics are fine. I think he's perfectly capable of playing PF in the NBA. It will take him awhile to learn how to guard better and bigger players in the NBA, but that's true of most young players entering the league.

Read this article (ESPN Insider) and you'll be better informed:

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_ ... 2018-draft
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby JLN » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Regular Show wrote:
JLN wrote:
Regular Show wrote:
Also, Doncic is either going to be a PG or a SF in the NBA. He's not a good enough shooter to play SG, and not big enough to play PF/C.

You think he can keep up with all the elite PGs in the NBA right now? R. Westbrook, D. Lillard, K. Irving, J. Wall, K. Lowry, and on and on it goes. You think Doncic can guard J. Butler, Lebron, Durant, K. Leonard, etc. at SF?

Are you serious??? Every scout has questions about his defense at the next level.


I didn't say anything about Doncic's defense. Bagley may have the physical tools to be OK defensively, but you're projecting a lot before he hits adequate. Also, if you're still hung up on NBA positions you're knocking one guy for being a tweener while propping up another tweener.


Again, you don't know what you're talking about... Bagley doesn't just have the physical tools to be OK defensively -- he has the tools to be an above-average defender if he actually turns those tools into refined skills. Same as when you're discussing tools while talking about MLB prospects. Tools do not equal skills.

Bagley isn't really a tweener either. His listed height is 6'11" and he currently weighs 234 lbs. He's not listed as a pure PF because he plays more like a C who plays near the hoop. Most PFs have to be able to shoot all the way out to the 3-pt line, and he is capable of that. His 3-pt percentage in college is 35.4% and his shooting mechanics are fine. I think he's perfectly capable of playing PF in the NBA. It will take him awhile to learn how to guard better and bigger players in the NBA, but that's true of most young players entering the league.

Read this article (ESPN Insider) and you'll be better informed:

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_ ... 2018-draft


Yeah, I have hope that he turns some of those tools into actual defense at some point too, but his lack of length makes it hard for him to make up for his general lack of defensive awareness. I honestly have no idea if he can learn defensive instincts but he has none now.

And you don't need to convince me Bagley will be good. I think there is more perimeter game in his skillset than he has shown but he hasn't needed to show it much because how much he can dominate smaller guys inside at the college level. Seriously my only point was that if you like guys who can contribute on both ends of the floor Bagley is a funny guy to support at #1. I wouldn't have said anything if you had the same criticism of Doncic but wanted Jaren Jackson at #1 (even though I would prefer Bagley to Jackson right now).
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:40 am

Bulls up by 19 after the 1st in Sacramento. Holy horsefeathers, the Kings are an abomination.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Brian » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:10 am

Hoiberg needs to get Zach out of this game for tank's sake. (edit: Portis too, not sure how they are actually doing but I just turned the game on and they're the only ones scoring.)
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:18 am

Regular Show wrote:Most PFs have to be able to shoot all the way out to the 3-pt line, and he is capable of that. His 3-pt percentage in college is 35.4% and his shooting mechanics are fine.

35.4% from the college 3 isn't great and he's only taking 2 a game (SSS) and he's only at 62% from the FT line (I forgot where I saw it but there was a study done that showed college FT% being a better predictor of NBA 3 point success than college 3 percentage). I don't mean to be down on Bagley, I think he's the best college player this year and can see how he can be a good NBA player. I agree with you that his form seems pretty solid, especially for a big guy and "should" be workable to get better in the NBA at shooting. There just are some things with him that I can see keeping him for ever being all that special in the NBA.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Brian » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:21 am

another double tank win
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:22 am

Amazed they found a way to lose that.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:12 pm

That was an impressive come-from-ahead loss.

And I loved Robin Lopez' ejection.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:35 pm

Bulls trade Jameer Nelson for Willie Reed, and a swap of 2022 2nd round picks.

Luckily they are waiving Reed (wouldn't want that scum on the roster)
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:34 pm

Noah Vonleh and cash to Bulls. Draft rights of some obscure Serbian guy to Portland.

Portland gets under the tax. Bulls get cash, and I guess an extended look at a 22 year old 10per RFA to be.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:39 pm

I guess I like getting to take a look at Vonleh. But, should have gotten a 2nd out of Portland, for keeping them out of the luxury tax.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:46 pm

davell wrote:I guess I like getting to take a look at Vonleh. But, should have gotten a 2nd out of Portland, for keeping them out of the luxury tax.

When you sell second roundersfor cash what's the difference?
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:39 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
davell wrote:I guess I like getting to take a look at Vonleh. But, should have gotten a 2nd out of Portland, for keeping them out of the luxury tax.

When you sell second roundersfor cash what's the difference?


Its so horsefeathering frustrating. They made(lucked into) a great deal, that gave us 3 very solid building blocks. Hell, I'll even give them credit on the Niko deal. 3 1st rounders dealt at the deadline, we got one of them. Possibly even the best one.

But, there's a 1.5 game difference between 1st and 8th right now, in terms of the lottery. And Lopez and Holiday are both still here. I don't care if you gave them away, if it nets you one extra loss this year, its worth it.

Then, Paxson says in the PC, that they were approached with bad contract deals, but they didn't want to take any money on, since they had Asik. At least not anything past next year.

So, they'll have to get lucky as hell drafting. There's not going to be a bunch of extra assets to make trades with or anything.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:57 pm

I think over the remainder of the season, attributing even one win to those guys is a pretty optimistic assement of their value. Random statistical noise is gonna play a bigger part in W-L.

They will probably be better assets a year from now, particularly if the market ends up being less of a buyers market.

It came up a little bit with Niko, as well, but I'll maintain maximizing your asset returns is way more important than a few draft slots. Obviously there's some inherent risk of never realizing any return on your asset if they just see out their contract, but that's part of what needs to be weighed, especially if your shutting the door on some other avenue, in this case FA.
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