2018-2019 Bulls season thread

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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby davell » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:07 pm

No. The problem is they do NOTHING like the Sixers did. The Sixers found cap space to hoard more picks and they used their roster as a shuttle to try guys out. The Bulls skimp out on these things big time.

I hate GarPax. But, the only thing that has me interested right now is they actually do have an extremely talented base of youngsters already, even if it was by luck.....

LaVine, Lauri, and even Dunn have all shown signs. The first 2 conceivably have All Star potential. Portis is an excellent piece at this point. To trade or to keep in the right situation. And Carter fits perfectly with this group too, even though he'll likely see some growing pains as a 19 year old.

That's a bunch of talent for being one year in to a rebuild. And its a wing heavy top end of thecrraft too, which fits the Bulls needs luckily again.

If they get one of Barrett, Little, or Reddish, they've got an extremely interesting group next year. Or Williamson, even though he's not truly the best fit.

Dumb luck may prevail over GarPax here. But, these guys need to get healthy and some time on the court together.

If they do and they stay healthy next year, I think this team makes the playoffs, even without big additions thru FA. Partially because its the East, but still....
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby UMFan83 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:35 pm

davell wrote:No. The problem is they do NOTHING like the Sixers did. The Sixers found cap space to hoard more picks and they used their roster as a shuttle to try guys out. The Bulls skimp out on these things big time.

I hate GarPax.


Yep. The Bulls want to half-ass rebuild on the fly and you can tell they are running out of patience already after a year though they are still sort of on the rebuild path.

I loathe GarPax, I can't stand hearing them talk, I hate the excuses they make, I hate the drastic change in philosphy every year that seems to be 2-3 years behind the rest of the league, I can't stand how they choose to build basketball teams that will be competitive sooner than later at the expense of a championship ceiling, I loathe that they hired Fred and then for his first 2 seasons built a team that completely opposes his style of basketball, I hate that they didn't have anyone on their draft board left for a high 2nd round selection and thus sold it, I despise that they lazily decided Hutchison was their guy before the combine and didnt bother to work out anyone else even if their mind was set, it annoys me that they do just enough right (Butler trade and Lauri drafting) to give enough ammo to the few defenders that are out there even though good to bad moves seem to be on a 1:4 ratio.

etc etc etc.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:24 pm

davell wrote:No. The problem is they do NOTHING like the Sixers did. The Sixers found cap space to hoard more picks and they used their roster as a shuttle to try guys out. The Bulls skimp out on these things big time.

I hate GarPax. But, the only thing that has me interested right now is they actually do have an extremely talented base of youngsters already, even if it was by luck.....

LaVine, Lauri, and even Dunn have all shown signs. The first 2 conceivably have All Star potential. Portis is an excellent piece at this point. To trade or to keep in the right situation. And Carter fits perfectly with this group too, even though he'll likely see some growing pains as a 19 year old.

That's a bunch of talent for being one year in to a rebuild. And its a wing heavy top end of thecrraft too, which fits the Bulls needs luckily again.

If they get one of Barrett, Little, or Reddish, they've got an extremely interesting group next year. Or Williamson, even though he's not truly the best fit.

Dumb luck may prevail over GarPax here. But, these guys need to get healthy and some time on the court together.

If they do and they stay healthy next year, I think this team makes the playoffs, even without big additions thru FA. Partially because its the East, but still....

Why is it dumb luck just cuz they didn't do it like the Sixers did? Hell the Sixers had their share of luck too.

and they used their roster as a shuttle to try guys out. The Bulls skimp out on these things big time.

This is a particularly impressive complaint just a day after complaining that they made a move that allowed them to shuttle a guy onto the roster.

Also Phillys roster shuttling did basically diddly. TJ McConnell is the one success from that strategy I guess?
Last edited by WrigleyField 22 on Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby Thed Hoyerstein » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:24 pm

I like how Gar Forman looks like Bert from Sesame Street
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby davell » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:03 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
davell wrote:No. The problem is they do NOTHING like the Sixers did. The Sixers found cap space to hoard more picks and they used their roster as a shuttle to try guys out. The Bulls skimp out on these things big time.

I hate GarPax. But, the only thing that has me interested right now is they actually do have an extremely talented base of youngsters already, even if it was by luck.....

LaVine, Lauri, and even Dunn have all shown signs. The first 2 conceivably have All Star potential. Portis is an excellent piece at this point. To trade or to keep in the right situation. And Carter fits perfectly with this group too, even though he'll likely see some growing pains as a 19 year old.

That's a bunch of talent for being one year in to a rebuild. And its a wing heavy top end of thecrraft too, which fits the Bulls needs luckily again.

If they get one of Barrett, Little, or Reddish, they've got an extremely interesting group next year. Or Williamson, even though he's not truly the best fit.

Dumb luck may prevail over GarPax here. But, these guys need to get healthy and some time on the court together.

If they do and they stay healthy next year, I think this team makes the playoffs, even without big additions thru FA. Partially because its the East, but still....

Why is it dumb luck just cuz they didn't do it like the Sixers did? Hell the Sixers had their share of luck too.


The Sixers took way more shots. They took EVERY opportunity. Take more shots, you're gonna hit more.

It's even MORE frustrating, because we CAN draft fairly well.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:09 pm

davell wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
davell wrote:No. The problem is they do NOTHING like the Sixers did. The Sixers found cap space to hoard more picks and they used their roster as a shuttle to try guys out. The Bulls skimp out on these things big time.

I hate GarPax. But, the only thing that has me interested right now is they actually do have an extremely talented base of youngsters already, even if it was by luck.....

LaVine, Lauri, and even Dunn have all shown signs. The first 2 conceivably have All Star potential. Portis is an excellent piece at this point. To trade or to keep in the right situation. And Carter fits perfectly with this group too, even though he'll likely see some growing pains as a 19 year old.

That's a bunch of talent for being one year in to a rebuild. And its a wing heavy top end of thecrraft too, which fits the Bulls needs luckily again.

If they get one of Barrett, Little, or Reddish, they've got an extremely interesting group next year. Or Williamson, even though he's not truly the best fit.

Dumb luck may prevail over GarPax here. But, these guys need to get healthy and some time on the court together.

If they do and they stay healthy next year, I think this team makes the playoffs, even without big additions thru FA. Partially because its the East, but still....

Why is it dumb luck just cuz they didn't do it like the Sixers did? Hell the Sixers had their share of luck too.


The Sixers took way more shots. They took EVERY opportunity. Take more shots, you're gonna hit more.

It's even MORE frustrating, because we CAN draft fairly well.

The Sixers also didn't have an asset like Jimmy Butler to jump start a rebuild. A lot of people wrote it off, but the plan there was to take 3 shots at once. That all 3 may pay off isn't that different than sucking for 3 years for your first three shots.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:14 pm

Also I don't think the Bulls remotely have the pieces to be on a championship trajectory, but stating that you're actually intrigued by many of their pieces and then writing off it as dumb luck is an incredibly lazy hot take.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby davell » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:20 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
davell wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:Why is it dumb luck just cuz they didn't do it like the Sixers did? Hell the Sixers had their share of luck too.


The Sixers took way more shots. They took EVERY opportunity. Take more shots, you're gonna hit more.

It's even MORE frustrating, because we CAN draft fairly well.

The Sixers also didn't have an asset like Jimmy Butler to jump start a rebuild. A lot of people wrote it off, but the plan there was to take 3 shots at once. That all 3 may pay off isn't that different than sucking for 3 years for your first three shots.


You can't count on that. And if you do, sitting there and patting yourself on the back for it, is still the wrong strategy. Being active now is even MORE important, because you've found a decent framework.

But, they're not manufacturing more. They're sitting on their hands.

Yeah, I like the current group. And I'll like it more if they add Barrett, Little, Reddish, or Williamson. But, they could and should be taking more shots. Buying 2nds. Late 1sts. Bad salary. Shuffling the roster......

They're lazy. No way around it.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:30 pm

They can't count on what?

Flipping Mirotoc for a possible lotto pick was a shot (as well as freeing up time for Porfis). Signing Jabari was a shot. The nearly endless bottom of roster guards they've signed the past couple years are shots. Signing some unheard of guy from a South American pro league is a shot.

They've obviously failed in other ways like selling 2nd round picks... And also not buying 2nd round picks... Actually they've never valued second round picks going back all the way to the start of Pax's tenure, but also... Those are really low level shots that rarely pan out (Philly can attest). Theyve always valued first round picks fwiw though. Pax has a long history of moving on from pieces and turning them into first rounders.

"The Process" is bunk. Building winning teams is about maximizing assets. Philly has been pretty average about maximizing assets truthfully.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:35 pm

I'm also all for pining on the Bulls to be better, but can it at least be a successful GM like Ainge and not possibly the process that is just as likely to produce the next mid Aughts Blazers as it is produce a champion?
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby davell » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:41 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:I'm also all for pining on the Bulls to be better, but can it at least be a successful GM like Ainge and not possibly the process that is just as likely to produce the next mid Aughts Blazers as it is produce a champion?


Fine. I used the Sixers solely for taking so many shots. The point is that GarPax fails to do anything more than the bare minimum.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:48 pm

That's still such an incredibly lazy and not true take lol
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby davell » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:58 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:That's still such an incredibly lazy and not true take lol


Where are you getting that? They trade off 2nds just because they can. They literally promised they'd take Hutchison with a pick when they could have still been out scouting. They could and should have traded back into the draft last year and the year before, yet left the building literally.

They fail to utilize their roster anywhere near the amounts that they can.

What exactly do you see them doing currently?

They made what turned out to be a nice trade. And they've hit on the 7th pick twice in a row. Which is why I'm enthused.

They signed Jabari. Not gonna work out, but I at least see why.....

But yes, they are doing the minimum. I can't even comprehend how you don't see it. I've spelled out the things they're not doing. And during a rebuild, those things are essential.

If you're not doing them, you're half assing things. No way around it.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:29 am

The Bulls problem isn't some weird lack of activity. There are like 5 guys left from the end of the 2017 season, two of which are still on rookie contracts. They've turned over the roster a ton, and you seemingly like a lot of the prices they added.

Be mad at specific moves like selling the second rounder, but this weird "they haven't taken enough swings" is a bad take. Their current roster has 11 guys they've added with less than 4 years experience. They cycled through another 5 of said players last year.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby davell » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:40 am

By the way, didn't see an edit. I'd say signing Covington off the scrap heap is Philly's best maneuver as far as roster management has gone.....

Only reason I brought Philly up is in response to Proven Veteran saying we were trying a Philly style rebuild.

But again, the point is not whether the moves technically worked out. It's the fact that they're putting themselves in many more positions to succeed.....

I mean, horsefeathers, if they had just made more attempts last year, they wouldn't have had the need to sign Kilpatrick(another Bartelstein guy lol)just to hit the salary floor. Then watch the savvy NBA get won them a few extra games last year that cost them draft positioning.

There are guys that are shuttled up and down every year that turn into legit players. Even if it's just rotational pieces. There's plenty of 2nd round success stories. You don't not do these things just because they're long shots. it's no different than taking rule 5 shots, claiming guys off waivers, etc. All good organizations utilize these things as often as they can.

For that matter, they've still got a room level exception they could use. To try and add a guy they could have dealt at the deadline..... Plus, the countless numbers of trade exceptions they constantly let expire......

Bottom line is I guess we just aren't going to agree. Because I'm not going to be convinced they're doing more than the minimum needed to hold onto the gigs they'll never actually lose.

Hopefully they get an elite wing this next draft and head back to the playoffs next year.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:48 am

I don't think you're paying close enough attention because they've been pretty active off the scrap heap.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby davell » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:19 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:I don't think you're paying close enough attention because they've been pretty active off the scrap heap.


I'm very well aware of every move they make. I'm also very well aware they waited until the end of the year last year, signed a few guys just to give them some salary towards the salary floor. Then signed Kilpatrick for enough money to cover it.

I'm also well aware they have a 4.4 mill slot available currently, that they could have used at any point. And multip!e exceptions they've let expire.

This must be good roster management to you.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:51 am

Most trade exceptions go unused because they're created all the time.

They just literally used a portion of their available space! And still have plenty of time to use more.

Also it's not about how I feel about the roster (I could make many complaints going back over the years). But rather this bizarre thing where you like a lot of the pieces they've added but are unhappy with how they've done it and incorrectly claimed it was dumb luck.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby davell » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:24 am

Plenty of teams use their exceptions and most use them more often.

Signing minimum level players, when a guy goes out is expected. Especially since thst had a roster spot due to Asik.

When you make a trade like they did, they DID get lucky. They haven't exactly been great at trading in the past. And they certainly didn't know much about Lauri- they never even worked him out. To me, that's at least fortunate beyond belief.

I was one of the few happy with the trade at the time. But its been better than I figured. But I didn't think they needed to trade off pick 16 and felt they could have picked up future 2nds too. Neither here nor there, at this point.

But yes, their management style is sloppy as horsefeathers. And the things they COULD be doing and aren't conceivably are things that could cost us cap space in the future. By not finding extra rotation types or even hitting good on a late pick.

Good franchises maximize these types of moves. The Bulls don't come close.

So we're stuck hoping they constantly make the right big move because there's no potential bail out possibilities.

So yeah, I like the talent we have amassed. But its very easy to expect them to be doing much more, at this exact point too.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:48 am

You'll need to cite the first claim there.

Signing the minimum guy was the move. Asik was the accompanying move to make it happen.

What do you mean, the type of trade they did? The one where they added three pieces. That's three of their swings! Or would it have been preferable to turn Jimmy into one swing? Trading has hardly been a weakness of theirs. They're fine at it. Over their entire reign they're pretty good at turning guys into first rounders which I think is the type you would want, so if it's not happening now it's very unlikely it's due to lack of attention and effort (which is to say they "only" did it twice in 16 months - plus Dunn+Lavine)

Total random speculation. I mean we actually have 15 years of data to indicate Pax values first rounders and frequently targets them in trades, but yea they must have just fallen asleep at the wheel and thrown it in for horsefeathers and grins?

Bulls have been one of the best teams out their in creating cap space, that really has never been a concern.. In fact it's actually a weakness, but if you're worried about cap flexibility you shouldn't be.

No you seem to have a very unrealistic expectation about how much can be done. Hate on the moves if you want. Be annoyed if Lopez is still here in March. But they've had plenty of activity two off-seasons into the full rebuild.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby Proven Veteran » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:36 am

I was just joking about the players getting hurt. :blush:
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby davell » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:39 am

Again, they literally didn't even work Lauri out. Hitting on him is lucky. THAT type of trade. They winged it. It worked.

This is about how they're handling this rebuild. Not 15 years of data that doesn't actually prove anything. They've also held onto guys too long or didn't move them at all. There's plenty of holes to like thru out their regime. For any move they've made, they've held onto Gasol, or traded Taj for horsefeathers, or traded up for McDermott, or got nothing for Deng.

And coming up with cap space is easy when you constantly miss on the max guys lol. Pretty easy to free up space. Especially when you're basically never into the tax.

They've wasted their shot at trading Lopez. He should have been moved already because he's not the same player he was last year even. I don't even care about that one. Keeping him to mentor Carter may very well be the better move.

But, they've got the ability(after the big FA again pass) to take on bad salary. They've had and will continue to have chances at adding late 1sts or 2nds.

We'll see what they do with Portis.

Working the margins separates winning franchises and these guys don't do it.

They should be adding the things I've mentioned. They're not. You do enough mining, it can turn into something. And they've had plenty of opportunities they're not taking.

You think these things don't matter. The constant failings at them WILL matter. It's what eventually separates teams.

Evidently you're happy with them mostly. I think this franchise would be much better off without them.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:45 am

davell wrote:Again, they literally didn't even work Lauri out. Hitting on him is lucky. THAT type of trade. They winged it. It worked.

This is such a weird take from the guy who just wants them to "take more chances" which is basically just the strategy of eventually getting lucky.

davell wrote:This is about how they're handling this rebuild. Not 15 years of data that doesn't actually prove anything. They've also held onto guys too long or didn't move them at all. There's plenty of holes to like thru out their regime. For any move they've made, they've held onto Gasol, or traded Taj for horsefeathers, or traded up for McDermott, or got nothing for Deng.

I bring up the 15 year history only to highlight their long standing history of trading for first round picks* when available which brings me to...

davell wrote:But, they've got the ability(after the big FA again pass) to take on bad salary. They've had and will continue to have chances at adding late 1sts or 2nds.

Definitely they've passed on chances to use seconds (though they have collected them, they do give them back with annoying willingness). But for first round picks, you'll have to show your work on this one because there aren't an abundance of these types of trades to show me that they are suffering from inaction as much as no market (teams have tightened up that market big time).

davell wrote:And coming up with cap space is easy when you constantly miss on the max guys lol. Pretty easy to free up space. Especially when you're basically never into the tax.

"constantly missing on max guys" is going to be a high bar for success. If we're modeling after successful teams, most did not get there via open market Max FAs, anyways. Although in the spirit of "taking shots", not sure if constantly freeing up space does count as a shot or not for you. They are trying something, even though as I stated their constant cap space has probably been a detriment to team building. The alternative is to never have max cap space in the first place because you lock up an abundance of non max players. It would be doing something, though not necessarily something productive towards getting top flight players, either. (or having a shot at one).

davell wrote:They've wasted their shot at trading Lopez. He should have been moved already because he's not the same player he was last year even. I don't even care about that one. Keeping him to mentor Carter may very well be the better move.

Nah, if they passed on any move for Lopez that was a bad call, but most likely there just wasn't a market for him. Come Jan/Feb they should buy him out and grab some other bottom fodder to try out if no trade opportunity comes up.

davell wrote:Working the margins separates winning franchises and these guys don't do it.

That's not what separates the winners from the losers. It's just what happens when the winners get the big difference makers and max out cap and other resources. Losers can/should do it too but they are still constrained by roster limits and can't just endlessly pursue those means either. Or if they do, they're just cycling through guys in a non meaningful manner.

davell wrote:They should be adding the things I've mentioned. They're not. You do enough mining, it can turn into something. And they've had plenty of opportunities they're not taking.

You keep saying this, but I think you need to show your work because there doesn't appear to be some active market they're ignoring to me. They've added lots of fodder, even hit on some dating back before the Butler trade when the Rose-window closed.

davell wrote:You think these things don't matter. The constant failings at them WILL matter. It's what eventually separates teams.

Eventually lucking into a top 10 player is what matters.

davell wrote:Evidently you're happy with them mostly. I think this franchise would be much better off without them.
I actually think you like their core more than I do based on your initial comments, which makes this whole thing even more bizarre. I'm not all that thrilled with them, but you're so focused on some mythical process thing and that that is the failing rather than just a failing to acquire a top end talent... Well they might have acquired some top end talent according to you, but it doesn't count, they still suck at team building lol (including when they do what you want them to do and take a shot).

For the record, as a general point, bypassing an opportunity is something we can measure them on as an active choice even if it doesn't lead to the type of "action" you want to see. For example, there were many rumors that had Butler for Rubio and the number 5 pick a year before they actually traded him. It was an active choice to do nothing. Not making a signing because you're using that spot for another development piece, or a trade chip, or a expiring contract for cap space are all active choices that lead to no action and can be judged as good or bad moves and all you wanna see is more action. Action=good is just a bad take.

*A brief history of players shed for first round picks to highlight that GarPax would probably be completing more of these trades now, if available:
Eddy Curry (and a pick swap), Tyrus Thomas, Thabo Sefalosha, James Johnson, Lou Deng (protected, ended up as seconds), Nikola Mirotic

A history of second rounders wasted or given up for nothing is too exhaustive to list unfortunately.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby davell » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:55 pm

I appreciate the thoroughness. For the life of me though, I fail to understand how you don't see that its a horrible look to not even work out Lauri. It IS lucky they hit on him. And its lazy as to how they did it. Same with promising Hutchison and not working out guys for the last month prior to the draft. Same with leaving the draft and not even LOOKING for 2nds. Saying no one looked good enough for them to consider, as if they're too good for it lol.

Like I've said, I understand the Jabari move THIS year. But, they could have used that space last year possibly. Or maybe they could have used Asik in a move like that. Or Lopez later this year.... No idea.

High bar of success? Yeah, you're a major market team. You should expect to land some elite guy at some point. They couldn't even do it when they had Rose and Noah. Hell, they wouldn't even trade Deng in a move for Kobe. And you could have talked to Kobe and made him understand they'd get him someone else, if he was truly worried about Deng not being there...... And no, Boozer or Ben Wallace aren't elite, before you bring them up.

And talk to me about what separates winners from losers when the Bulls go out this next off-season and give 2-3 guys 10-12 mill apiece and become yet another 45ish win incarnation, because they've got holes to fill. Instead of maybe finding some of those guys thru the addition of the extra picks they could have accumulated.

And yeah, I do like this core. But, I'm looking forward and seeing this is how they finish off the team..... And losing their max space because they wind up spending it on role players......

Again, I don't want moves just for making moves sake. But, you've definitely got opportunities to add 2nds every year. Sometimes you've got opportunities to buy late 1sts. Other teams do these things. The cap space stuff? Lets see what happens. But, I will be shocked if they use the space for bad contracts instead of on role players going forward.
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Re: 2018-2019 Bulls season thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:54 pm

davell wrote:I appreciate the thoroughness. For the life of me though, I fail to understand how you don't see that its a horrible look to not even work out Lauri. It IS lucky they hit on him. And its lazy as to how they did it. Same with promising Hutchison and not working out guys for the last month prior to the draft. Same with leaving the draft and not even LOOKING for 2nds. Saying no one looked good enough for them to consider, as if they're too good for it lol.

High bar of success? Yeah, you're a major market team. You should expect to land some elite guy at some point. They couldn't even do it when they had Rose and Noah. Hell, they wouldn't even trade Deng in a move for Kobe. And you could have talked to Kobe and made him understand they'd get him someone else, if he was truly worried about Deng not being there...... And no, Boozer or Ben Wallace aren't elite, before you bring them up.

And talk to me about what separates winners from losers when the Bulls go out this next off-season and give 2-3 guys 10-12 mill apiece and become yet another 45ish win incarnation, because they've got holes to fill. Instead of maybe finding some of those guys thru the addition of the extra picks they could have accumulated.

And yeah, I do like this core. But, I'm looking forward and seeing this is how they finish off the team..... And losing their max space because they wind up spending it on role players......

Again, I don't want moves just for making moves sake. But, you've definitely got opportunities to add 2nds every year. Sometimes you've got opportunities to buy late 1sts. Other teams do these things. The cap space stuff? Lets see what happens. But, I will be shocked if they use the space for bad contracts instead of on role players going forward.

I'm not sure how heavily an in person workout should be for college players with plenty of tape... It's not like they had no info on Lauri. Could they have better prepped for a Butler trade? Yes I guess they could, but it also worked out... So meh.

Re: the cap space thing, they're created chances and failed to execute, yea. So the process is actively being carried out, but I would agree they need to execute on it. I won't personally get too down on this failure based on how few Max guys changed teams on the open market. History of the odds tell you that you shouldn't expect to.

This first round market you keep harping on is very dead the past few years. Don't know what else to say, other than they have added a first round pick in a deadline deal where there have been almost no others the past two years.

Still agree on the second round thing.

Still, given all the critiques, if you're happy with the general results I think you should focus less on the process.


Like I've said, I understand the Jabari move THIS year. But, they could have used that space last year possibly. Or maybe they could have used Asik in a move like that. Or Lopez later this year.... No idea.

This is the line of thinking I'm struggling to grasp from you.
You could use the space last year or this year, but not both (well they kind of did because it was basically a repeat of the Mirotic deal... But I digress) You could hold onto Asik this year as a trade chip or add another scrap heap lotto ticket (Shaq) , but not both (ditto Lopez). There are still limitations and non moves have to be looked at against moves they do make. They can't literally do them all. Sure the 6ers had like 25 guys cycle thru their roster some years, but most of those stints were not meaningful either.

Be upset that they sold Bell and instead used that roster spot on Felder, for instance (or retaining Zioser or whoever you want to plug in). That would be a good take. But they aren't not doing stuff, they just sometimes do bad stuff. If it flops be mad. If it hits, be happy.

Every time they throw a second round pick in a trade, assume it's because they don't properly value 2nd round picks. Every time they include a first round pick, assume that's the price it took. History tells us these things are both probably true. Take the good with the bad.

Every time a Canaan or Felder or whatever doesn't work out remember they once found a contributor from a Brazil pro league (bad subsequent contract withstanding), and have long been active internationally. Next time they get close to the luxury tax and run with a 13 man roster or whatever (as they did a couple times during the Rose window) , be mad. But at least be honest about what's going on when that happens again (but it isn't laziness).

Also, it's not a Sixers/Hinkle rebuild and that isn't a bad thing.
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