Chicago Bears offseason

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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:51 pm

First time in a long time that I actively chose not to watch the Bears game.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby rawaction » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:52 pm

Bears fans have been having the "chicken v. egg" argument in regards to who's been worse, Nagy or Trubisky. I've been on team "Trubisky has been the biggest issue", but I'm not even sure anymore. Sure Nagy has schemed things open that Trubisky has flat out missed. But I don't think you can blame Trubisky on every lineman taking a step backwards, the TE position being a disaster, and Cohen becoming a liability instead of a pro-bowl caliber offensive weapon.

Unfortunately for all parties, gotta do this for 1 more game and all of next year. A repeat performance and you have a whole organization full of unemployed players, coaches and executives.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby UK » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:06 pm

rawaction wrote:Bears fans have been having the "chicken v. egg" argument in regards to who's been worse, Nagy or Trubisky. I've been on team "Trubisky has been the biggest issue", but I'm not even sure anymore. Sure Nagy has schemed things open that Trubisky has flat out missed. But I don't think you can blame Trubisky on every lineman taking a step backwards, the TE position being a disaster, and Cohen becoming a liability instead of a pro-bowl caliber offensive weapon.

Unfortunately for all parties, gotta do this for 1 more game and all of next year. A repeat performance and you have a whole organization full of unemployed players, coaches and executives.


It starts with Nagy. Trubisky is an avg to slightly below avg QB but Nagy and his scheme have turned this offense worse than Trubisky's abilities. The talent should be here to produce an annually top 15-20 range offense, I think last year was the highest ceiling and hopefully this year is the floor.

I hope Helfrich becomes collateral damage and Nagy hires a playcalling OC with NFL experience. I also think Ragone should go too.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Soul » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:10 pm

God forbid they eek out an 8-8 season next year. We know the Bears, they’ll be tempted to bring Nagy back.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby gflore34 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:14 pm

Soul wrote:God forbid they eek out an 8-8 season next year. We know the Bears, they’ll be tempted to bring Nagy back.


Or. even worse, sign Trubisky to an extension.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby rawaction » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:30 pm

Wilson A2000 wrote:I don’t see any short-term hope with this team. You can’t be a Super Bowl contender with Trubisky. He’s getting worse and so is Nagy. Fixing the line and getting a TE will help, but until the Bears get decent QBing and a better play caller, it’s not going to really matter.


I mean, this is the same QB and playcaller that won 12 games last year. I know the defense gave them more short fields and scored points, but the offense last year did a decent job getting into the endzone, despite not a lot of yards. So, I guess there's hope there.

There aren't many examples of a QB just "getting it" after 3 years. But ironically enough, the one shining example is Drew Brees. But he was really good his 3rd year (step back in 4th) and really took off obviously with a new team/coach.

The numbers are pretty similar overall too.

Brees (1st 3 years)- 21-21 record, 787-1282, 61.4 comp %, 8551 yards, 55 TD, 38 INTs, 202.5 yards per game, 6.67 yards per attempt.

Trubs (1st 3 years)- 22-18 record, 785-1243, 63.1 ccomp %, 8347 yards, 48 TD, 29 INTs, 207.5 yards per game, 6.72 yards per attempt.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:47 pm

Just for reference, Brees' completion% his first three years as a starter came when the league average was still below 60%. The league completion% this year was nearly 64%, last year 65%, and the year before 62%
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby UMFan83 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:53 pm

rawaction wrote:
Wilson A2000 wrote:I don’t see any short-term hope with this team. You can’t be a Super Bowl contender with Trubisky. He’s getting worse and so is Nagy. Fixing the line and getting a TE will help, but until the Bears get decent QBing and a better play caller, it’s not going to really matter.


I mean, this is the same QB and playcaller that won 12 games last year. I know the defense gave them more short fields and scored points, but the offense last year did a decent job getting into the endzone, despite not a lot of yards. So, I guess there's hope there.

There aren't many examples of a QB just "getting it" after 3 years. But ironically enough, the one shining example is Drew Brees. But he was really good his 3rd year (step back in 4th) and really took off obviously with a new team/coach.

The numbers are pretty similar overall too.

Brees (1st 3 years)- 21-21 record, 787-1282, 61.4 comp %, 8551 yards, 55 TD, 38 INTs, 202.5 yards per game, 6.67 yards per attempt.

Trubs (1st 3 years)- 22-18 record, 785-1243, 63.1 ccomp %, 8347 yards, 48 TD, 29 INTs, 207.5 yards per game, 6.72 yards per attempt.


That would be awesome but can we really hang our hat on pretty much extreme outliers?
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby gflore34 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:58 pm

UMFan83 wrote:
rawaction wrote:
Wilson A2000 wrote:I don’t see any short-term hope with this team. You can’t be a Super Bowl contender with Trubisky. He’s getting worse and so is Nagy. Fixing the line and getting a TE will help, but until the Bears get decent QBing and a better play caller, it’s not going to really matter.


I mean, this is the same QB and playcaller that won 12 games last year. I know the defense gave them more short fields and scored points, but the offense last year did a decent job getting into the endzone, despite not a lot of yards. So, I guess there's hope there.

There aren't many examples of a QB just "getting it" after 3 years. But ironically enough, the one shining example is Drew Brees. But he was really good his 3rd year (step back in 4th) and really took off obviously with a new team/coach.

The numbers are pretty similar overall too.

Brees (1st 3 years)- 21-21 record, 787-1282, 61.4 comp %, 8551 yards, 55 TD, 38 INTs, 202.5 yards per game, 6.67 yards per attempt.

Trubs (1st 3 years)- 22-18 record, 785-1243, 63.1 ccomp %, 8347 yards, 48 TD, 29 INTs, 207.5 yards per game, 6.72 yards per attempt.


That would be awesome but can we really hang our hat on pretty much extreme outliers?


It's possible, Mitch aside, nearly everything that could go wrong did, the OL badly regressed, TE went poof, running game non-existent, WR's cannot catch the ball. If they can improve the OL and establish a running game we'll see improvement in Mitch.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby rawaction » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:05 pm

Brad Biggs seems to think that last night ruined any progress Mitch appeared to be making the last month or so, and that the team needs to go in a different direction at QB this offseason. I just don't know how realistic it is to expect them to eat 9M for Trubisky and then replace him with a undisputed better QB. Those guys cost twice as much and the simple fact that they are available makes the "undisputed" part not fit the criteria.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:06 pm

UMFan83 wrote:
rawaction wrote:
Wilson A2000 wrote:I don’t see any short-term hope with this team. You can’t be a Super Bowl contender with Trubisky. He’s getting worse and so is Nagy. Fixing the line and getting a TE will help, but until the Bears get decent QBing and a better play caller, it’s not going to really matter.


I mean, this is the same QB and playcaller that won 12 games last year. I know the defense gave them more short fields and scored points, but the offense last year did a decent job getting into the endzone, despite not a lot of yards. So, I guess there's hope there.

There aren't many examples of a QB just "getting it" after 3 years. But ironically enough, the one shining example is Drew Brees. But he was really good his 3rd year (step back in 4th) and really took off obviously with a new team/coach.

The numbers are pretty similar overall too.

Brees (1st 3 years)- 21-21 record, 787-1282, 61.4 comp %, 8551 yards, 55 TD, 38 INTs, 202.5 yards per game, 6.67 yards per attempt.

Trubs (1st 3 years)- 22-18 record, 785-1243, 63.1 ccomp %, 8347 yards, 48 TD, 29 INTs, 207.5 yards per game, 6.72 yards per attempt.


That would be awesome but can we really hang our hat on pretty much extreme outliers?

I don't think it's hang your hat as much as it's they don't have a realistic option other than trying to fix other things and hope Mitch takes a step forward. It's not going to happen, but they aren't fixing the QB issue until 2021 anyway.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:16 pm

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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby gflore34 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:25 pm

rawaction wrote:Brad Biggs seems to think that last night ruined any progress Mitch appeared to be making the last month or so, and that the team needs to go in a different direction at QB this offseason. I just don't know how realistic it is to expect them to eat 9M for Trubisky and then replace him with a undisputed better QB. Those guys cost twice as much and the simple fact that they are available makes the "undisputed" part not fit the criteria.


How could one night, barring injury, ruin or make Mitch' progress?
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:40 pm

gflore34 wrote:
rawaction wrote:Brad Biggs seems to think that last night ruined any progress Mitch appeared to be making the last month or so, and that the team needs to go in a different direction at QB this offseason. I just don't know how realistic it is to expect them to eat 9M for Trubisky and then replace him with a undisputed better QB. Those guys cost twice as much and the simple fact that they are available makes the "undisputed" part not fit the criteria.


How could one night, barring injury, ruin or make Mitch' progress?

It couldn't. But that's an easy column to write following a predictably pathetic performance against Mahomes and Nagy's mentor.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Wilson A2000 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:49 pm

gflore34 wrote:
Wilson A2000 wrote:I don’t see any short-term hope with this team. You can’t be a Super Bowl contender with Trubisky. He’s getting worse and so is Nagy. Fixing the line and getting a TE will help, but until the Bears get decent QBing and a better play caller, it’s not going to really matter.


Some WR's who can actually catch the ball might help as well. I know Mitch sucks, it was garbage time, blah, blah, blah but, how can he make a better throw than he did to Robinson on the last series? On the sideline, drops it perfectly between two defenders and of course, Robinson drops the ball.


He’s had a few drops, but Robinson is not the problem with the offense
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby gflore34 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:56 pm

It's probably just me, tired of the endless comparisons to Mahomes and stories of Pace' draft mistake but, I've a feeling Mahomes is going to be the Dan Marino of the 20 teens to 20 twenties. Put up gobs of regular season numbers while never winning anything.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby gflore34 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:58 pm

Wilson A2000 wrote:
gflore34 wrote:
Wilson A2000 wrote:I don’t see any short-term hope with this team. You can’t be a Super Bowl contender with Trubisky. He’s getting worse and so is Nagy. Fixing the line and getting a TE will help, but until the Bears get decent QBing and a better play caller, it’s not going to really matter.


Some WR's who can actually catch the ball might help as well. I know Mitch sucks, it was garbage time, blah, blah, blah but, how can he make a better throw than he did to Robinson on the last series? On the sideline, drops it perfectly between two defenders and of course, Robinson drops the ball.


He’s had a few drops, but Robinson is not the problem with the offense


For the most part he's not the problem, the remainder of WR's cannot catch the ball, it's an impossible situation when you've got one reliable receiver.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Chocolate Milk » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:07 pm

rawaction wrote:Bears fans have been having the "chicken v. egg" argument in regards to who's been worse, Nagy or Trubisky. I've been on team "Trubisky has been the biggest issue", but I'm not even sure anymore. Sure Nagy has schemed things open that Trubisky has flat out missed. But I don't think you can blame Trubisky on every lineman taking a step backwards, the TE position being a disaster, and Cohen becoming a liability instead of a pro-bowl caliber offensive weapon.

I've been struggling with this too and I think it's clear they share the blame in some proportion. But I still think Mitch is the main problem. To be blunt, I think he's a dummy and I think Nagy is really struggling to design an offense around a guy who doesn't know where to go with the ball, can't read a defense, makes the wrong decisions on the read option, etc. When the stars align and you have a wide open WR streaking into the endzone, Mitch airmails it. You see a lot of single option plays where it's just designed to go to one guy with no other options. He's not calling those plays for no reason - he's calling them because he knows Mitch can't read the defense and throw it to the right guy when he has multiple options. Other teams know this and I think it just compounds the issue. The narrative that Nagy is just stubborn and would rather watch his offense repeatedly humiliate itself on national TV rather than call plays that suit Mitch's strengths seems lazy to me - I don't buy it. I put the blame 60-70% on Mitch for the offensive struggles this year.

Out of qualified QB's, Mitch is 28th out of 32 in QB rating. He's 32nd out of 32 in yards per attempt. Despite being last among all QB's in yards per attempt, he's still only 20th in the league in completion percentage. He's 29th out of 32 in QBR. And this is with 4 games with a rating over 115! Think about how bad he's been in all the other games to end up where he is. He's not just below average, I think you could make a decent argument that he's the worst starting QB in the NFL.

Where I do think Nagy horsefeathers up was not recognizing this going into the season. I think he deluded himself to thinking Mitch is going to take some big leap and he rolled out a gameplan week one that Mitch had 0% chance of being able to execute. Think about that game. Nagy comes in with a game plan calling for Mitch to throw it 50 times. The Packers defensive game plan was literally "Let Mitch play QB." They understood what Nagy didn't.

With all that being said, I have no idea where they go from here. They were all in on Mitch and doubled down with the Mack trade. You have to hope for some miracle Tannehill-esque reclamation project. The future looks pretty grim for this team.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:17 pm

Chocolate Milk wrote:
rawaction wrote:Bears fans have been having the "chicken v. egg" argument in regards to who's been worse, Nagy or Trubisky. I've been on team "Trubisky has been the biggest issue", but I'm not even sure anymore. Sure Nagy has schemed things open that Trubisky has flat out missed. But I don't think you can blame Trubisky on every lineman taking a step backwards, the TE position being a disaster, and Cohen becoming a liability instead of a pro-bowl caliber offensive weapon.

I've been struggling with this too and I think it's clear they share the blame in some proportion. But I still think Mitch is the main problem. To be blunt, I think he's a dummy and I think Nagy is really struggling to design an offense around a guy who doesn't know where to go with the ball, can't read a defense, makes the wrong decisions on the read option, etc. When the stars align and you have a wide open WR streaking into the endzone, Mitch airmails it. You see a lot of single option plays where it's just designed to go to one guy with no other options. He's not calling those plays for no reason - he's calling them because he knows Mitch can't read the defense and throw it to the right guy when he has multiple options. Other teams know this and I think it just compounds the issue. The narrative that Nagy is just stubborn and would rather watch his offense repeatedly humiliate itself on national TV rather than call plays that suit Mitch's strengths seems lazy to me - I don't buy it. I put the blame 60-70% on Mitch for the offensive struggles this year.

Out of qualified QB's, Mitch is 28th out of 32 in QB rating. He's 32nd out of 32 in yards per attempt. Despite being last among all QB's in yards per attempt, he's still only 20th in the league in completion percentage. He's 29th out of 32 in QBR. And this is with 4 games with a rating over 115! Think about how bad he's been in all the other games to end up where he is. He's not just below average, I think you could make a decent argument that he's the worst starting QB in the NFL.

Where I do think Nagy horsefeathers up was not recognizing this going into the season. I think he deluded himself to thinking Mitch is going to take some big leap and he rolled out a gameplan week one that Mitch had 0% chance of being able to execute. Think about that game. Nagy comes in with a game plan calling for Mitch to throw it 50 times. The Packers defensive game plan was literally "Let Mitch play QB." They understood what Nagy didn't.

With all that being said, I have no idea where they go from here. They were all in on Mitch and doubled down with the Mack trade. You have to hope for some miracle Tannehill-esque reclamation project. The future looks pretty grim for this team baring some kind of miracle.

I agree with your take. Mitch is a dumb person. I also know that the coaching staff had big reservations about Mitch coming in. But they didn't have much of a choice since the team was locked into it. They could only try their best to get the most out of him, and they probably did that. They don't have anything resembling a good enough running game to do much of anything but hope the passing game could get them through the season.

Mitch isn't average to below average. He's bad. He's missed so many should be touchdowns, and this team is still maybe 5-6 missed plays from him from being still in wild card contention.

Nagy leaves a lot to be desired, but I think he's capable of progressing as a coach and deserves an opportunity to help pick and develop his guy. Pace leaves a lot to be desired, but this isn't a complete disaster of a roster. Let the two guys have a shot at becoming legends, and if it doesn't work out blow it up after 2022.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:25 pm

UMFan83 wrote:That would be awesome but can we really hang our hat on pretty much extreme outliers?


All plans for 2020 have a low probability of success. You're either hoping on an unlikely turnaround from Trubisky and/or the rest of the roster being improved, or you're hoping on a mediocre retread QB from elsewhere and the rest of the roster stagnating.

I'm not optimistic about Trubisky, but you're pretty much priced into him for one more year at this point unless you're dying to see what this exact roster, give or take a tight end and a year older, can do with Andy Dalton or Marcus Mariota.

After 2020, the answer to "Is Trubisky secretly average or is he actually awful?" is "I don't care." He's definitely not good, and if you don't have someone good at that position, keep trying until you get one.
Last edited by Hairyducked Idiot on Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby rawaction » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:25 pm

Chocolate Milk wrote:
rawaction wrote:Bears fans have been having the "chicken v. egg" argument in regards to who's been worse, Nagy or Trubisky. I've been on team "Trubisky has been the biggest issue", but I'm not even sure anymore. Sure Nagy has schemed things open that Trubisky has flat out missed. But I don't think you can blame Trubisky on every lineman taking a step backwards, the TE position being a disaster, and Cohen becoming a liability instead of a pro-bowl caliber offensive weapon.

I've been struggling with this too and I think it's clear they share the blame in some proportion. But I still think Mitch is the main problem. To be blunt, I think he's a dummy and I think Nagy is really struggling to design an offense around a guy who doesn't know where to go with the ball, can't read a defense, makes the wrong decisions on the read option, etc. When the stars align and you have a wide open WR streaking into the endzone, Mitch airmails it. You see a lot of single option plays where it's just designed to go to one guy with no other options. He's not calling those plays for no reason - he's calling them because he knows Mitch can't read the defense and throw it to the right guy when he has multiple options. Other teams know this and I think it just compounds the issue. The narrative that Nagy is just stubborn and would rather watch his offense repeatedly humiliate itself on national TV rather than call plays that suit Mitch's strengths seems lazy to me - I don't buy it. I put the blame 60-70% on Mitch for the offensive struggles this year.

Out of qualified QB's, Mitch is 28th out of 32 in QB rating. He's 32nd out of 32 in yards per attempt. Despite being last among all QB's in yards per attempt, he's still only 20th in the league in completion percentage. He's 29th out of 32 in QBR. And this is with 4 games with a rating over 115! Think about how bad he's been in all the other games to end up where he is. He's not just below average, I think you could make a decent argument that he's the worst starting QB in the NFL.

Where I do think Nagy horsefeathers up was not recognizing this going into the season. I think he deluded himself to thinking Mitch is going to take some big leap and he rolled out a gameplan week one that Mitch had 0% chance of being able to execute. Think about that game. Nagy comes in with a game plan calling for Mitch to throw it 50 times. The Packers defensive game plan was literally "Let Mitch play QB." They understood what Nagy didn't.

With all that being said, I have no idea where they go from here. They were all in on Mitch and doubled down with the Mack trade. You have to hope for some miracle Tannehill-esque reclamation project. The future looks pretty grim for this team.


While this all may be true....

Leno was a probowler in 2018, been below average this year
Whitehair was a probowler in 2018, has been worse
Daniels has failed to develop and has regressed
RG is a mess. Though not going to blame anyone here.
Massie was probably similar, if not slightly worse than 2018 when he was healthy.
Miller still has mental errors, but may be slightly better.
Burton/Shaheen were not healthy, but were not good when they played.
Cohen was a probowler in 2018, but has the 2nd lowest YPC in NFL history with 60 catches (believe the broadcast said last night).
Howard was traded because he wasn't a fit. Montgomery has basically been the exact same player, but running behind a lesser OL.

If all but Robinson and maybe Miller are worse than they were last year, then can you just write off Trubisky as being bad? There's a common denominator. I don't think you can blame Mitch for the OL being this bad. Don't think you can blame him for Cohen either. But you can blame some of Mitch's struggles on the OL.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby gflore34 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:41 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Chocolate Milk wrote:
rawaction wrote:Bears fans have been having the "chicken v. egg" argument in regards to who's been worse, Nagy or Trubisky. I've been on team "Trubisky has been the biggest issue", but I'm not even sure anymore. Sure Nagy has schemed things open that Trubisky has flat out missed. But I don't think you can blame Trubisky on every lineman taking a step backwards, the TE position being a disaster, and Cohen becoming a liability instead of a pro-bowl caliber offensive weapon.

I've been struggling with this too and I think it's clear they share the blame in some proportion. But I still think Mitch is the main problem. To be blunt, I think he's a dummy and I think Nagy is really struggling to design an offense around a guy who doesn't know where to go with the ball, can't read a defense, makes the wrong decisions on the read option, etc. When the stars align and you have a wide open WR streaking into the endzone, Mitch airmails it. You see a lot of single option plays where it's just designed to go to one guy with no other options. He's not calling those plays for no reason - he's calling them because he knows Mitch can't read the defense and throw it to the right guy when he has multiple options. Other teams know this and I think it just compounds the issue. The narrative that Nagy is just stubborn and would rather watch his offense repeatedly humiliate itself on national TV rather than call plays that suit Mitch's strengths seems lazy to me - I don't buy it. I put the blame 60-70% on Mitch for the offensive struggles this year.

Out of qualified QB's, Mitch is 28th out of 32 in QB rating. He's 32nd out of 32 in yards per attempt. Despite being last among all QB's in yards per attempt, he's still only 20th in the league in completion percentage. He's 29th out of 32 in QBR. And this is with 4 games with a rating over 115! Think about how bad he's been in all the other games to end up where he is. He's not just below average, I think you could make a decent argument that he's the worst starting QB in the NFL.

Where I do think Nagy horsefeathers up was not recognizing this going into the season. I think he deluded himself to thinking Mitch is going to take some big leap and he rolled out a gameplan week one that Mitch had 0% chance of being able to execute. Think about that game. Nagy comes in with a game plan calling for Mitch to throw it 50 times. The Packers defensive game plan was literally "Let Mitch play QB." They understood what Nagy didn't.

With all that being said, I have no idea where they go from here. They were all in on Mitch and doubled down with the Mack trade. You have to hope for some miracle Tannehill-esque reclamation project. The future looks pretty grim for this team baring some kind of miracle.

I agree with your take. Mitch is a dumb person. I also know that the coaching staff had big reservations about Mitch coming in. But they didn't have much of a choice since the team was locked into it. They could only try their best to get the most out of him, and they probably did that. They don't have anything resembling a good enough running game to do much of anything but hope the passing game could get them through the season.

Mitch isn't average to below average. He's bad. He's missed so many should be touchdowns, and this team is still maybe 5-6 missed plays from him from being still in wild card contention.

Nagy leaves a lot to be desired, but I think he's capable of progressing as a coach and deserves an opportunity to help pick and develop his guy. Pace leaves a lot to be desired, but this isn't a complete disaster of a roster. Let the two guys have a shot at becoming legends, and if it doesn't work out blow it up after 2022.


Heard an interesting take on the Bears the other day, said if someone such as Derek Carr were the QB they'd be in the playoffs or in still in playoff contention. It's difficult to play the what if game however, one has to think Carr, being an average QB, wouldn't have missed on numerous TD passes.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Chocolate Milk » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:45 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:and this team is still maybe 5-6 missed plays from him from being still in wild card contention.

I think about this a lot. How much different is this team really playing compared to last year? They went from a last place schedule to a first place schedule. A lot of their games were close last year - they really only blew out the true bottom feeders. Turnovers aren't 100% luck, but their last season was a major outlier in terms of the number of turnovers they produced. They had 27 interceptions last year. 27!!!! They have 8 this year. They have been without their second best defensive player for most of the year and have had a lot more injuries to deal with than last year. I think there is a belief that this team is massively underperforming from last year. They are underperforming, but I'm not sure how much. They are a running into the punter and a missed FG from being 9-6 right now.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby UK » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:47 pm

rawaction wrote:
Chocolate Milk wrote:
rawaction wrote:Bears fans have been having the "chicken v. egg" argument in regards to who's been worse, Nagy or Trubisky. I've been on team "Trubisky has been the biggest issue", but I'm not even sure anymore. Sure Nagy has schemed things open that Trubisky has flat out missed. But I don't think you can blame Trubisky on every lineman taking a step backwards, the TE position being a disaster, and Cohen becoming a liability instead of a pro-bowl caliber offensive weapon.

I've been struggling with this too and I think it's clear they share the blame in some proportion. But I still think Mitch is the main problem. To be blunt, I think he's a dummy and I think Nagy is really struggling to design an offense around a guy who doesn't know where to go with the ball, can't read a defense, makes the wrong decisions on the read option, etc. When the stars align and you have a wide open WR streaking into the endzone, Mitch airmails it. You see a lot of single option plays where it's just designed to go to one guy with no other options. He's not calling those plays for no reason - he's calling them because he knows Mitch can't read the defense and throw it to the right guy when he has multiple options. Other teams know this and I think it just compounds the issue. The narrative that Nagy is just stubborn and would rather watch his offense repeatedly humiliate itself on national TV rather than call plays that suit Mitch's strengths seems lazy to me - I don't buy it. I put the blame 60-70% on Mitch for the offensive struggles this year.

Out of qualified QB's, Mitch is 28th out of 32 in QB rating. He's 32nd out of 32 in yards per attempt. Despite being last among all QB's in yards per attempt, he's still only 20th in the league in completion percentage. He's 29th out of 32 in QBR. And this is with 4 games with a rating over 115! Think about how bad he's been in all the other games to end up where he is. He's not just below average, I think you could make a decent argument that he's the worst starting QB in the NFL.

Where I do think Nagy horsefeathers up was not recognizing this going into the season. I think he deluded himself to thinking Mitch is going to take some big leap and he rolled out a gameplan week one that Mitch had 0% chance of being able to execute. Think about that game. Nagy comes in with a game plan calling for Mitch to throw it 50 times. The Packers defensive game plan was literally "Let Mitch play QB." They understood what Nagy didn't.

With all that being said, I have no idea where they go from here. They were all in on Mitch and doubled down with the Mack trade. You have to hope for some miracle Tannehill-esque reclamation project. The future looks pretty grim for this team.


While this all may be true....

Leno was a probowler in 2018, been below average this year
Whitehair was a probowler in 2018, has been worse
Daniels has failed to develop and has regressed
RG is a mess. Though not going to blame anyone here.
Massie was probably similar, if not slightly worse than 2018 when he was healthy.
Miller still has mental errors, but may be slightly better.
Burton/Shaheen were not healthy, but were not good when they played.
Cohen was a probowler in 2018, but has the 2nd lowest YPC in NFL history with 60 catches (believe the broadcast said last night).
Howard was traded because he wasn't a fit. Montgomery has basically been the exact same player, but running behind a lesser OL.

If all but Robinson and maybe Miller are worse than they were last year, then can you just write off Trubisky as being bad? There's a common denominator. I don't think you can blame Mitch for the OL being this bad. Don't think you can blame him for Cohen either. But you can blame some of Mitch's struggles on the OL.


Look at the whole team. The only two who I think got better were Trevathan and Fuller. Robinson and Miller stayed the course with Miller getting better as the season progressed, two new starters at HB and S but everyone got worse. 14 of the 20 starters regressed.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:49 pm

Even if an average QB got you to the playoffs with this roster, you're just gonna get dumpstered the first time you play a good team. This isn't baseball where the playoffs are a coin-flip.

Where to go from here is get a soft start on the 2021 rebuild. Cut underproducing veterans, avoid long-term commitments in the free agent market, try to draft at positions with a longer-term impact like OL. Get a low-commitment QB to compete with Trubisky, whichever of them is playing better wins.

If you happen to get a dead-cat bounce season out of the Mack/Hicks/youth/cheapFAs defense or the offense figures something out, congrats. But in 2021, you try again to draft a QB and start building around him.
Last edited by Hairyducked Idiot on Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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