Chicago Bears offseason

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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby rawaction » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:27 pm

Best talent on the Board Day 3 for the Bears. Not going to include any TEs or CBs, because I don't see the Bears picking another of either.

Curtis Weaver, Edge, Boise State
Akeem Davis-Gaither, LB, Appalachian State
Saadiq Charles, OT, LSU
Bradley Anae, Edge, Utah
Prince Tega Wanogho, OT, Auburn
Kenny Willikes, Edge, Michigan State
Ben Bredeson, OG, Michigan
K'Von Wallace, S, Clemson
Tyler Johnson, WR, Minnesota
Tyler Biadazs, C/OG, Wisconsin
Donovan Peoples-Jones, WR, Michigan
Logan Stenberg, OG, Kentucky
Ben Bartch, OT, St John
Shane Lemieux, OG, Oregon
John Simpson, OG Clemson
Darnell Mooney, WR, Tulane
Geno Stone, S, Iowa
Anthony McFarland, RB, Maryland
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby BigbadB » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:57 pm

I really don't understand all of the "we have 10 TE's in camp" comments. Several of those guys were on the roster last year and TE was a huge black hole on offense and in an offense that heavily utilizes the TE position. It seems like Pace had that vision in mind when he drafted Shaheen and added Burton. Unfortunately, neither of those guys worked out. Mahomes has Kelce. Wentz has Ertz and Goedert. Foles can't or couldn't go into this season with Holtz and Harris as his primary TE's.

The Graham signing made me cringe. He hasn't shown much the last few years. However, he will potentially excel in 2 TE sets and having him there so that Kmet can be an understudy in training camp should be a bonus. This team needed help at that position. There is no denying that Pace has spent more time at that position than any other, but it is a position of need if this offense is going to take a step forward.

They've got 5 picks today that they can find competition at S, EDGE, ILB, OL, QB, WR and RB. Pace has done a pretty good job of landing quality guys in the later rounds and even a few finds in UDFA. The consensus is that both of the 2nd round picks were 1st round talent, so that's what I'm hanging my hat on. Putting Graham in a heavy TE oriented offense might just be the motivation he needs to make a last stand while Kmet learns the ropes. I love the Olsen comparisons. That was the biggest head scratching trade of the Martz era. I get that he wasn't a blazing fast WR for his offensive scheme, but he was a pass catching WR and getting rid of him left a huge hole at that position for years.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Soul » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:05 pm

Fromm is still there? I’d take him.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby jersey cubs fan » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:06 pm

BigbadB wrote:The consensus is that both of the 2nd round picks were 1st round talent, so that's what I'm hanging my hat on. .


I do not believe that is close to being consensus.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby BigbadB » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:42 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
BigbadB wrote:The consensus is that both of the 2nd round picks were 1st round talent, so that's what I'm hanging my hat on. .


I do not believe that is close to being consensus.


You are right. But Kiper did have Kmet ranked 29th and Jaylon Johnson ranked 44th, so the value is there based on his analysis. Not sure how you rate Kiper's analysis, but I've always respected it.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Soul » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:42 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
BigbadB wrote:The consensus is that both of the 2nd round picks were 1st round talent, so that's what I'm hanging my hat on. .


I do not believe that is close to being consensus.

Plus why would anyone give Pace’s draft picks the benefit of the doubt.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby BigbadB » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:47 pm

Soul wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
BigbadB wrote:The consensus is that both of the 2nd round picks were 1st round talent, so that's what I'm hanging my hat on. .


I do not believe that is close to being consensus.

Plus why would anyone give Pace’s draft picks the benefit of the doubt.


Because one draft pick failure does not necessarily mean all other draft picks will be failures. GM's miss out on picks all of the time. There are plenty of draft picks starting for the Bears, so I don't know why we can't give the benefit of the doubt when they weren't "reaches".

I guess I'm just not at the doom and gloom stage of my fandom. The defense is among the best in the league. A more capable QB with some added weapons on offense could make their 2020 look more like 2018 than 2019.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Soul » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:57 pm

BigbadB wrote:
Soul wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
I do not believe that is close to being consensus.

Plus why would anyone give Pace’s draft picks the benefit of the doubt.


Because one draft pick failure does not necessarily mean all other draft picks will be failures. GM's miss out on picks all of the time. There are plenty of draft picks starting for the Bears, so I don't know why we can't give the benefit of the doubt when they weren't "reaches".

I guess I'm just not at the doom and gloom stage of my fandom. The defense is among the best in the league. A more capable QB with some added weapons on offense could make their 2020 look more like 2018 than 2019.


I’m looking at the past 3 drafts and I see last year was a total failure. Going back to 2017 I see 15 picks; Smith, Miller, and Jackson who I can honestly say are decent. Beyond that though? Who?

3 of 15 and we are supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And this feels like very familiar territory to me. They’ve made a couple picks and people are trying to see it, trying to find a way to believe these are finally the impact players they’ve been waiting for.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:04 pm

Soul wrote:Fromm is still there? I’d take him.

Yea, he'd be a steal in the 5th.

I'd put odds on Pace trying to move into the 4th. Next years 4th and one of the 6ths, something like that. Though trading activity seems down across the board this year too.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:05 pm

Soul wrote:
BigbadB wrote:
Soul wrote:Plus why would anyone give Pace’s draft picks the benefit of the doubt.


Because one draft pick failure does not necessarily mean all other draft picks will be failures. GM's miss out on picks all of the time. There are plenty of draft picks starting for the Bears, so I don't know why we can't give the benefit of the doubt when they weren't "reaches".

I guess I'm just not at the doom and gloom stage of my fandom. The defense is among the best in the league. A more capable QB with some added weapons on offense could make their 2020 look more like 2018 than 2019.


I’m looking at the past 3 drafts and I see last year was a total failure. Going back to 2017 I see 15 picks; Smith, Miller, and Jackson who I can honestly say are decent. Beyond that though? Who?

3 of 15 and we are supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And this feels like very familiar territory to me. They’ve made a couple picks and people are trying to see it, trying to find a way to believe these are finally the impact players they’ve been waiting for.

You've graded a draft a total failure one year removed from said draft?

Okay.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Soul » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:11 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Soul wrote:
BigbadB wrote:
Because one draft pick failure does not necessarily mean all other draft picks will be failures. GM's miss out on picks all of the time. There are plenty of draft picks starting for the Bears, so I don't know why we can't give the benefit of the doubt when they weren't "reaches".

I guess I'm just not at the doom and gloom stage of my fandom. The defense is among the best in the league. A more capable QB with some added weapons on offense could make their 2020 look more like 2018 than 2019.


I’m looking at the past 3 drafts and I see last year was a total failure. Going back to 2017 I see 15 picks; Smith, Miller, and Jackson who I can honestly say are decent. Beyond that though? Who?

3 of 15 and we are supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And this feels like very familiar territory to me. They’ve made a couple picks and people are trying to see it, trying to find a way to believe these are finally the impact players they’ve been waiting for.

You've graded a draft a total failure one year removed from said draft?

Okay.

Come on.

Montgomery, Ridley, Shelley, Whyte, and Denmark.

How does that get better with time?

I guess if you really feel Montgomery still has something to offer above random replacement RB.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Soul » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:16 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Soul wrote:Fromm is still there? I’d take him.

Yea, he'd be a steal in the 5th.

I'd put odds on Pace trying to move into the 4th. Next years 4th and one of the 6ths, something like that. Though trading activity seems down across the board this year too.

If Pace moved up to take Fromm that would significantly improve my outlook.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby BigbadB » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:19 pm

Soul wrote:I guess if you really feel Montgomery still has something to offer above random replacement RB.


Montgomery is a fine RB. The problem last year was the inability to spread the field so that running lanes could be created.

Get a QB in there that can actually hit an open receiver, get a TE in there that can catch the ball that will knock down double teaming of the receivers and Montgomery will excel. The entirety of the 2019 season was Trubisky's inability to scare the defense, which handicapped the entire playbook.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:34 pm

I dont get the hate towards Kmet. I may be higher on him then I should be, but he was far from a reach at 43, and like others have pointed out, we have no bona fide #1 at the pos
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby David » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:41 pm

Soul wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Soul wrote:
I’m looking at the past 3 drafts and I see last year was a total failure. Going back to 2017 I see 15 picks; Smith, Miller, and Jackson who I can honestly say are decent. Beyond that though? Who?

3 of 15 and we are supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And this feels like very familiar territory to me. They’ve made a couple picks and people are trying to see it, trying to find a way to believe these are finally the impact players they’ve been waiting for.

You've graded a draft a total failure one year removed from said draft?

Okay.

Come on.

Montgomery, Ridley, Shelley, Whyte, and Denmark.

How does that get better with time?

I guess if you really feel Montgomery still has something to offer above random replacement RB.


Both Montgomery and Ridley could both easily be valuable players. What? Montgomery had flashes and was overall disappointing but probably was also misused and the victim of an offensive line (and a QB) that didn't let the offense do anything. I was disappointed in his first year but I wouldn't declare him a bust yet.

And Ridley just did what pretty much any mid-late round rookie wideout would do. I didn't think he was particularly good or bad given the circumstances and how much playing time he was likely to get. I'd at least wait until I see if he makes any sort of meaningful contribution in year 2 before declaring him a nothing (again, operating under the overall mindset that, yeah, most of these guys are going to be nothings anyway).

They barely even played, which is pretty much what you'd expect from a team that was expected to contend for a Super Bowl going into the season and was always wishfully hanging around enough that they didn't go into an all out tank mode with doling out reps and there were too many guys ahead of them anyway. I have no idea what someone like Duke Shelley is. Supposedly had a pretty good camp last year but he was never going to see the field much barring a complete decimation of our secondary by injury.

Do I think they'll amount to much? No, but that's because they're mid-late round picks and that's pretty much all we know about them. It was always going to be a surprise if most of those guys amounted to much and that's still the case just like it will be with any late round guys we take this year, but beyond that reasoning I'm not sure why we'd declare them to be any more nothing than any other guys that get drafted that late onto a team expecting to contend with a bunch of guys with established positions and roles.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:42 pm

Soul wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Soul wrote:
I’m looking at the past 3 drafts and I see last year was a total failure. Going back to 2017 I see 15 picks; Smith, Miller, and Jackson who I can honestly say are decent. Beyond that though? Who?

3 of 15 and we are supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And this feels like very familiar territory to me. They’ve made a couple picks and people are trying to see it, trying to find a way to believe these are finally the impact players they’ve been waiting for.

You've graded a draft a total failure one year removed from said draft?

Okay.

Come on.

Montgomery, Ridley, Shelley, Whyte, and Denmark.

How does that get better with time?

I guess if you really feel Montgomery still has something to offer above random replacement RB.

All those guys still have potential to carve out niche roles (although with Whyte unfortunately it won't be with the Bears)

Beyond the guys mentioned, he got 4 solid starting years out of Amos which turned into a comp 4th. Goldman a starting NT on a great D. Whitehair a long term starter.
Kwit was a great backup who ended up being a key injury replacement last year. Bush and Houston-Carson just meh, but have managed to at least be solid backup/ST.
A couple 1k seasons out of Howard. Cohen a pro bowl returner, and still should be a good 3rd down back, but needs to be used better. Nichols already is a solid starter. Daniels still working through some things but still has a decent foundation he can build on and become a long term starter (improved immensely last year once moved back to G). Wims is meh, but could still find a niche 4th WR role. Not ready to write off Ridley or Shelley at this point, both could develop into starters still.
Shelley in particular I think has a decent chance to replace Skrine at Nickel in 2021 . Iggy/Denmark don't look that promising, but if they can become just special teamer you're salvaging something from day 3 picks. Obviously not all those guys will continue to progress, but it's silly to grade drafts after a year or even 2 because not every guy is picked with the same developmental track.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Wilson A2000 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:44 pm

I have never understood the argument, at least in the first few rounds of the draft, of risking losing a player you really like and you have a need for by trading down a few spots with the hope that he's still there and getting another later pick. If Kmet is your guy, it's too risky to lose him for a late round pick someone would have given you.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:48 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:I dont get the hate towards Kmet. I may be higher on him then I should be, but he was far from a reach at 43, and like others have pointed out, we have no bona fide #1 at the pos

As a "hater" I think the thing thats tough about him, as a fan, to get excited about is lack of anything that really stands out. Like he doesn't appear to have tons of weaknesses, but also nothing that goes wow.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby BigbadB » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:55 pm

Wilson A2000 wrote:I have never understood the argument, at least in the first few rounds of the draft, of risking losing a player you really like and you have a need for by trading down a few spots with the hope that he's still there and getting another later pick. If Kmet is your guy, it's too risky to lose him for a late round pick someone would have given you.


Which was a question I pondered before the draft began. If Kmet is there, do you pass him by given the instability of the TE position on this team. I read that there were rumors that Pace was thinking about trading up to get someone. Whether that was Kmet or not, I'm not sure. Maybe it was Hurts. I'm just glad he didn't do that, especially if it was Kmet that he didn't want to risk being drafted before 43.

I don't blame Pace for drafting Trubisky. I do blame him for trading up to get him. That was a foolish move considering that if someone did jump the Bears to take him, Watson still would have been there to take with the 3rd pick. Maybe Watson wasn't the right kind of pedigree for the style offense they wanted. Maybe then you trade down and pick up some picks and then get Mahomes a bit later. I don't think there is any way to possibly defend the trade up, so I'm not going to say Pace does no wrong. But, at least he didn't give up more draft capital to move up to draft someone this time. At least not yet.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:14 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:I dont get the hate towards Kmet. I may be higher on him then I should be, but he was far from a reach at 43, and like others have pointed out, we have no bona fide #1 at the pos

As a "hater" I think the thing thats tough about him, as a fan, to get excited about is lack of anything that really stands out. Like he doesn't appear to have tons of weaknesses, but also nothing that goes wow.



his size doenst stand out? Hes the same size as Gronkowski
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:20 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:I dont get the hate towards Kmet. I may be higher on him then I should be, but he was far from a reach at 43, and like others have pointed out, we have no bona fide #1 at the pos

As a "hater" I think the thing thats tough about him, as a fan, to get excited about is lack of anything that really stands out. Like he doesn't appear to have tons of weaknesses, but also nothing that goes wow.



his size doenst stand out? Hes the same size as Gronkowski

Well size is most useful in context with the athletic testing. Together I think he checks the mark in both categories, but not like "wow" combination of size/athleticism.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby Wilson A2000 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:45 pm

BigbadB wrote:
Wilson A2000 wrote:I have never understood the argument, at least in the first few rounds of the draft, of risking losing a player you really like and you have a need for by trading down a few spots with the hope that he's still there and getting another later pick. If Kmet is your guy, it's too risky to lose him for a late round pick someone would have given you.


I don't blame Pace for drafting Trubisky. I do blame him for trading up to get him. That was a foolish move considering that if someone did jump the Bears to take him, Watson still would have been there to take with the 3rd pick. Maybe Watson wasn't the right kind of pedigree for the style offense they wanted. Maybe then you trade down and pick up some picks and then get Mahomes a bit later. I don't think there is any way to possibly defend the trade up, so I'm not going to say Pace does no wrong. But, at least he didn't give up more draft capital to move up to draft someone this time. At least not yet.


I didn’t mind Pace moving up to get a QB. The problem was that he passed on two potential HOF QBs. I wouldn't have drafted Maholmes where Trubisky was picked because he wasn’t on my radar, but Watson was and Pace never really had him in mind. It’s going to cost Pace his job and will set back the team 7-10 years.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby UMFan83 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:01 pm

Bears don’t have a glaring need at WR but what’s the view on Donovan Peoples-Jones? 5 star talent that never quite hit his potential at Michigan partly due to injuries, sometimes iffy QB play and his own inconsistencies.

But I think he’s a good route runner, moderately fast and can makes catches in traffic. I’m surprised he’s lasted this long...production wasn’t completely there in college but all the tools are still there.
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby rawaction » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:22 pm

rawaction wrote:Best talent on the Board Day 3 for the Bears. Not going to include any TEs or CBs, because I don't see the Bears picking another of either.

Curtis Weaver, Edge, Boise State
Akeem Davis-Gaither, LB, Appalachian State
Saadiq Charles, OT, LSU

Bradley Anae, Edge, Utah
Prince Tega Wanogho, OT, Auburn
Kenny Willikes, Edge, Michigan State
Ben Bredeson, OG, Michigan
K'Von Wallace, S, Clemson
Tyler Johnson, WR, Minnesota
Tyler Biadazs, C/OG, Wisconsin
Donovan Peoples-Jones, WR, Michigan
Logan Stenberg, OG, Kentucky
Ben Bartch, OT, St John

Shane Lemieux, OG, Oregon
John Simpson, OG Clemson
Darnell Mooney, WR, Tulane
Geno Stone, S, Iowa
Anthony McFarland, RB, Maryland


Kenny Robinson, S, West Virginia
Hakeem Adeniji, OT, Kansas
James Lynch, DL, Baylor
Brycen Hopkins, TE, Purdue. What the hell, I'd take him at this point for the future U. 10 TEs, why not 11?
Natane Muti, OG, Fresno State
Rashad Lawrence, DL, LSU
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Re: Chicago Bears offseason

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:49 pm

UMFan83 wrote:Bears don’t have a glaring need at WR but what’s the view on Donovan Peoples-Jones? 5 star talent that never quite hit his potential at Michigan partly due to injuries, sometimes iffy QB play and his own inconsistencies.

But I think he’s a good route runner, moderately and can makes catches in traffic. I’m surprised he’s lasted this long...production wasn’t completely there in college but all the tools are still there.

If they go WR I'd really want it to be a burner type, plus points if they have return potential (Cohen and Patterson will both be FA next year)
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