Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby Tim » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:38 pm

fwiw - the perception of Mitch's performance is probably a lot higher if Miller didn't blow the catches on two well thrown balls. The one on the sideline in the fourth quarter changed things a lot. If that drive is kept alive, we don't punt from the 40 yd line and they don't have the ball to march 95 yards for the touchdown.

I think Nagy needs to come to the realization that this is *not* an elite defense anymore. I think that's the flaw in his logic that is leading to the conservative approach when in the lead.
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby BigbadB » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:02 pm

Tim wrote:fwiw - the perception of Mitch's performance is probably a lot higher if Miller didn't blow the catches on two well thrown balls. The one on the sideline in the fourth quarter changed things a lot. If that drive is kept alive, we don't punt from the 40 yd line and they don't have the ball to march 95 yards for the touchdown.

I think Nagy needs to come to the realization that this is *not* an elite defense anymore. I think that's the flaw in his logic that is leading to the conservative approach when in the lead.


Something changed this defense when it went from Fangio to Pagano. It's just not the same. And it's not for the better. How many snaps did Quinn play yesterday? Point being, if he's near 100% and playing nearly ever down, then what we saw out of the defense was the best we can hope for this season? Not good enough. And that's disappointing considering we have Hicks, Mack, Quinn, Smith, Fuller and Jackson as stud defensive players. It's kinda bizarre to see most of the league games in shootouts to see who can get to 40 points first, and then Bears games are battles to see who can get to 20 first. They just aren't playing the same kind of football as the rest of the league where you make due with your defense, but load up on big scoring plays every week. I love defense. But there are arguably 6 guys alone that are near the top of league at their position and they aren't getting sacks at a high enough pace. They did create 2/3 turnovers, but Jones had plenty of time to throw.
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:43 pm

BigbadB wrote:Just caught up with all the in game play discussion, and UMFan posted the exact same thing I was thinking. Are we really going to sit on this lead the entire second half? That is not the Andy Reid school of football thinking. Andy Reid likes to run up the score. He likes to go deep with big leads. He loves to go deep on first down. He likes keeping his defense off the field by being aggressive with his play calling.

I have no idea what Nagy is doing, or why we are still saying he is a branch from the Andy Reid coaching tree. Nagy clings to short yardage gadget plays that take too long to develop to be successful. There were less than 5 throws to the newly developed TE stable.
.


Andy also likes coaching great quarterbacks he trusts.
Nagy is coaching a middling QB he does not trust in the least.
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:53 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
BigbadB wrote:Just caught up with all the in game play discussion, and UMFan posted the exact same thing I was thinking. Are we really going to sit on this lead the entire second half? That is not the Andy Reid school of football thinking. Andy Reid likes to run up the score. He likes to go deep with big leads. He loves to go deep on first down. He likes keeping his defense off the field by being aggressive with his play calling.

I have no idea what Nagy is doing, or why we are still saying he is a branch from the Andy Reid coaching tree. Nagy clings to short yardage gadget plays that take too long to develop to be successful. There were less than 5 throws to the newly developed TE stable.
.


Andy also likes coaching great quarterbacks he trusts.
Nagy is coaching a middling QB he does not trust in the least.

Well at least he has a more viable backup now. Push Mitch and if he fails its the Foles show.
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:06 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
BigbadB wrote:Just caught up with all the in game play discussion, and UMFan posted the exact same thing I was thinking. Are we really going to sit on this lead the entire second half? That is not the Andy Reid school of football thinking. Andy Reid likes to run up the score. He likes to go deep with big leads. He loves to go deep on first down. He likes keeping his defense off the field by being aggressive with his play calling.

I have no idea what Nagy is doing, or why we are still saying he is a branch from the Andy Reid coaching tree. Nagy clings to short yardage gadget plays that take too long to develop to be successful. There were less than 5 throws to the newly developed TE stable.
.


Andy also likes coaching great quarterbacks he trusts.
Nagy is coaching a middling QB he does not trust in the least.



but thats the horsefeathering problem, when the O is wide open Mitch seems to play better; when Nagy pulls back, Mitch falters. Nagy has zero reasons to hold the offense back
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby UMFan83 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:17 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
BigbadB wrote:Just caught up with all the in game play discussion, and UMFan posted the exact same thing I was thinking. Are we really going to sit on this lead the entire second half? That is not the Andy Reid school of football thinking. Andy Reid likes to run up the score. He likes to go deep with big leads. He loves to go deep on first down. He likes keeping his defense off the field by being aggressive with his play calling.

I have no idea what Nagy is doing, or why we are still saying he is a branch from the Andy Reid coaching tree. Nagy clings to short yardage gadget plays that take too long to develop to be successful. There were less than 5 throws to the newly developed TE stable.
.


Andy also likes coaching great quarterbacks he trusts.
Nagy is coaching a middling QB he does not trust in the least.



but thats the horsefeathering problem, when the O is wide open Mitch seems to play better; when Nagy pulls back, Mitch falters. Nagy has zero reasons to hold the offense back


I'm almost certain he would be pulling the same horsefeathers even with a good QB under center. I think its just ingrained in his mentality that you go conservative with a 2nd half lead and a strong defense. It's the same mentality that caused him to lose his 1st game as coach against GB, and he obviously hasn't learned because he's still doing it.
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Re: RE: Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:38 pm

mias_tisg wrote:I know it's not franchise-crippling by any means but what's the point of the Tarik Cohen extension if the Bears aren't going to use him at all?
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
mias_tisg wrote:I know it's not franchise-crippling by any means but what's the point of the Tarik Cohen extension if the Bears aren't going to use him at all?



wth are you talking about? they ran him inside a couple of times!

(I'm kidding, Nagy is absolutely puzzling sometimes
Cohen played 32% of the snaps lol
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:40 pm

UMFan83 wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Andy also likes coaching great quarterbacks he trusts.
Nagy is coaching a middling QB he does not trust in the least.



but thats the horsefeathering problem, when the O is wide open Mitch seems to play better; when Nagy pulls back, Mitch falters. Nagy has zero reasons to hold the offense back


I'm almost certain he would be pulling the same horsefeathers even with a good QB under center. I think its just ingrained in his mentality that you go conservative with a 2nd half lead and a strong defense. It's the same mentality that caused him to lose his 1st game as coach against GB, and he obviously hasn't learned because he's still doing it.



he lost a playoff game his last game with KC going uber conservative in the 2nd half up by 17. I realize KC had lost their TE that game, but one player (all-pro or not) shouldn't have that much of an impact especially since now we've seen him do it across teams and portions of the season

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Kans ... ffs:_vs._(#5)_Tennessee_Titans
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Re: RE: Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:41 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:
mias_tisg wrote:I know it's not franchise-crippling by any means but what's the point of the Tarik Cohen extension if the Bears aren't going to use him at all?
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
mias_tisg wrote:I know it's not franchise-crippling by any means but what's the point of the Tarik Cohen extension if the Bears aren't going to use him at all?



wth are you talking about? they ran him inside a couple of times!

(I'm kidding, Nagy is absolutely puzzling sometimes
Cohen played 32% of the snaps lol


sure, and had 5 carries, 3 of which were between the tackles. I have no idea why you would waste his effort with that
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby David » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:44 pm

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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby UMFan83 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:50 pm

David wrote:https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1308083842054582273?s=20


Thats...wow. Good to see. I did notice that he's been throwing into that intermediate range much more frequently and figured its a product of better pass protection, but he's also not checking down early as frequently as he was in the past. And good to see that PFF apparently doesn't think those INTs yesterday were necessarily bad ones as his overall grade was still high
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby Derwood » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:51 pm

I was very jealous watching the 4th quarter of the Cardinals game, as Arizona was having Murray chuck every down, even with the lead. It was complete anti-turtling and it was magnificent
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby UMFan83 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:52 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
UMFan83 wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:

but thats the horsefeathering problem, when the O is wide open Mitch seems to play better; when Nagy pulls back, Mitch falters. Nagy has zero reasons to hold the offense back


I'm almost certain he would be pulling the same horsefeathers even with a good QB under center. I think its just ingrained in his mentality that you go conservative with a 2nd half lead and a strong defense. It's the same mentality that caused him to lose his 1st game as coach against GB, and he obviously hasn't learned because he's still doing it.



he lost a playoff game his last game with KC going uber conservative in the 2nd half up by 17. I realize KC had lost their TE that game, but one player (all-pro or not) shouldn't have that much of an impact especially since now we've seen him do it across teams and portions of the season

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Kans ... ffs:_vs._(#5)_Tennessee_Titans


Ahh yeah I forgot about that. But I believe Reid actually took playcalling duties away from Nagy before the playoffs. I'm sure he had major influence in the gameplan but maybe not as much in game adjustments. At the very least, this was the last "lesson" he should have learned from Reid.
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:58 pm

UMFan83 wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
UMFan83 wrote:
I'm almost certain he would be pulling the same horsefeathers even with a good QB under center. I think its just ingrained in his mentality that you go conservative with a 2nd half lead and a strong defense. It's the same mentality that caused him to lose his 1st game as coach against GB, and he obviously hasn't learned because he's still doing it.



he lost a playoff game his last game with KC going uber conservative in the 2nd half up by 17. I realize KC had lost their TE that game, but one player (all-pro or not) shouldn't have that much of an impact especially since now we've seen him do it across teams and portions of the season

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Kans ... ffs:_vs._(#5)_Tennessee_Titans


Ahh yeah I forgot about that. But I believe Reid actually took playcalling duties away from Nagy before the playoffs. I'm sure he had major influence in the gameplan but maybe not as much in game adjustments. At the very least, this was the last "lesson" he should have learned from Reid.



maybe, I thought he called at least the 1st half
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby gflore34 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:27 pm

BigbadB wrote:
Tim wrote:fwiw - the perception of Mitch's performance is probably a lot higher if Miller didn't blow the catches on two well thrown balls. The one on the sideline in the fourth quarter changed things a lot. If that drive is kept alive, we don't punt from the 40 yd line and they don't have the ball to march 95 yards for the touchdown.

I think Nagy needs to come to the realization that this is *not* an elite defense anymore. I think that's the flaw in his logic that is leading to the conservative approach when in the lead.


Something changed this defense when it went from Fangio to Pagano. It's just not the same. And it's not for the better. How many snaps did Quinn play yesterday? Point being, if he's near 100% and playing nearly ever down, then what we saw out of the defense was the best we can hope for this season? Not good enough. And that's disappointing considering we have Hicks, Mack, Quinn, Smith, Fuller and Jackson as stud defensive players. It's kinda bizarre to see most of the league games in shootouts to see who can get to 40 points first, and then Bears games are battles to see who can get to 20 first. They just aren't playing the same kind of football as the rest of the league where you make due with your defense, but load up on big scoring plays every week. I love defense. But there are arguably 6 guys alone that are near the top of league at their position and they aren't getting sacks at a high enough pace. They did create 2/3 turnovers, but Jones had plenty of time to throw.


For the most part, so did Stafford last week, a sack could have ended the Giants last drive, they knew the Giants were going to throw the ball and still nothing.
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:04 pm

gflore34 wrote:
BigbadB wrote:
Tim wrote:fwiw - the perception of Mitch's performance is probably a lot higher if Miller didn't blow the catches on two well thrown balls. The one on the sideline in the fourth quarter changed things a lot. If that drive is kept alive, we don't punt from the 40 yd line and they don't have the ball to march 95 yards for the touchdown.

I think Nagy needs to come to the realization that this is *not* an elite defense anymore. I think that's the flaw in his logic that is leading to the conservative approach when in the lead.


Something changed this defense when it went from Fangio to Pagano. It's just not the same. And it's not for the better. How many snaps did Quinn play yesterday? Point being, if he's near 100% and playing nearly ever down, then what we saw out of the defense was the best we can hope for this season? Not good enough. And that's disappointing considering we have Hicks, Mack, Quinn, Smith, Fuller and Jackson as stud defensive players. It's kinda bizarre to see most of the league games in shootouts to see who can get to 40 points first, and then Bears games are battles to see who can get to 20 first. They just aren't playing the same kind of football as the rest of the league where you make due with your defense, but load up on big scoring plays every week. I love defense. But there are arguably 6 guys alone that are near the top of league at their position and they aren't getting sacks at a high enough pace. They did create 2/3 turnovers, but Jones had plenty of time to throw.


For the most part, so did Stafford last week, a sack could have ended the Giants last drive, they knew the Giants were going to throw the ball and still nothing.

They're old. It's not going from Fangio to Pagano as much as it is the continuation of time. The only young guy they've added the past three years is a MLB, which is nice to have but not something that will help get to the quarterback on third down. The guys in charge of getting the QB were eligible to vote for Obama in his second term, and some were eligible to vote for him the first time. That's not good.
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby Bertz » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:26 pm



Bears >50/50 to make the playoffs now. They're not a good team (currently 19th in DVOA, and that's not schedule adjusted), but two banked wins are two banked wins.
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:38 pm

*Nobody* wants to be on the "Bears defense is old and not good enough" train as much as I do, but they gave up 13 points yesterday while getting 4 sacks and forcing two turnovers.
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby David » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:39 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:*Nobody* wants to be on the "Bears defense is old and not good enough" train as much as I do, but they gave up 13 points yesterday while getting 4 sacks and forcing two turnovers.


and they are among the league leaders in pressures while also being among the lightest on blitzing.
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:43 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:*Nobody* wants to be on the "Bears defense is old and not good enough" train as much as I do, but they gave up 13 points yesterday while getting 4 sacks and forcing two turnovers.



and a ton of yards playing prevent D, but only 295 total for the game. Giants had something like 70 yards at half

(they had 291 total yards against Pittsburgh last week)
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Re: RE: Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby rawaction » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:20 am

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:*Nobody* wants to be on the "Bears defense is old and not good enough" train as much as I do, but they gave up 13 points yesterday while getting 4 sacks and forcing two turnovers.
Yeah the defense seems to be taking a lot of heat for almost losing. By all measurements that was a good defensive game, that would look even better if not for the bogus call on the Jackson called back pick 6.

And they do have some age on D but also have young talent at every position. Added a ton of youth at CB the last 2 offseasons. Fuller is the "old" guy but he's playing the best he ever has thru 2 games. Jackson is young, Smith is young. The DL guys getting most of the snaps outside of Hicks are young. The OLB starters are old (if you consider Mack old at 29), but with young depth.

I think Pace is at least aware that he can't count on an elite defense forever.

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Re: RE: Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:37 am

rawaction wrote:
Hairyducked Idiot wrote:*Nobody* wants to be on the "Bears defense is old and not good enough" train as much as I do, but they gave up 13 points yesterday while getting 4 sacks and forcing two turnovers.
Yeah the defense seems to be taking a lot of heat for almost losing. By all measurements that was a good defensive game, that would look even better if not for the bogus call on the Jackson called back pick 6.

And they do have some age on D but also have young talent at every position. Added a ton of youth at CB the last 2 offseasons. Fuller is the "old" guy but he's playing the best he ever has thru 2 games. Jackson is young, Smith is young. The DL guys getting most of the snaps outside of Hicks are young. The OLB starters are old (if you consider Mack old at 29), but with young depth.

I think Pace is at least aware that he can't count on an elite defense forever.

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I thought they said on the broadcast that they had the oldest D in the league. Did I hear that wrong?
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:38 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
rawaction wrote:
Hairyducked Idiot wrote:*Nobody* wants to be on the "Bears defense is old and not good enough" train as much as I do, but they gave up 13 points yesterday while getting 4 sacks and forcing two turnovers.
Yeah the defense seems to be taking a lot of heat for almost losing. By all measurements that was a good defensive game, that would look even better if not for the bogus call on the Jackson called back pick 6.

And they do have some age on D but also have young talent at every position. Added a ton of youth at CB the last 2 offseasons. Fuller is the "old" guy but he's playing the best he ever has thru 2 games. Jackson is young, Smith is young. The DL guys getting most of the snaps outside of Hicks are young. The OLB starters are old (if you consider Mack old at 29), but with young depth.

I think Pace is at least aware that he can't count on an elite defense forever.

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I thought they said on the broadcast that they had the oldest D in the league. Did I hear that wrong?

I don't know how that can be with Johnson, Jackson, Smith and Nichols starting.
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:57 am

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
rawaction wrote:Yeah the defense seems to be taking a lot of heat for almost losing. By all measurements that was a good defensive game, that would look even better if not for the bogus call on the Jackson called back pick 6.

And they do have some age on D but also have young talent at every position. Added a ton of youth at CB the last 2 offseasons. Fuller is the "old" guy but he's playing the best he ever has thru 2 games. Jackson is young, Smith is young. The DL guys getting most of the snaps outside of Hicks are young. The OLB starters are old (if you consider Mack old at 29), but with young depth.

I think Pace is at least aware that he can't count on an elite defense forever.

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I thought they said on the broadcast that they had the oldest D in the league. Did I hear that wrong?

I don't know how that can be with Johnson, Jackson, Smith and Nichols starting.

Well according to this article they are the second oldest overall. But that's the whole roster. Weighted for snaps maybe they aren't as old, as they didn't expand on the statistic when it was mentioned on the broadcast.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl ... rs-eagles/
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Re: Week 2: NY Giants @ Chicago BEARS Home Opener

Postby BigbadB » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:31 pm

Blitzing with success certainly beefs up your tackles for loss and sack rates. Maybe I just liked Fangio's scheme better as it did seem to disrupt the opposing QB's rhythm and creating more turnovers. Detroit definitely has an explosive offense, even if they were playing without Golladay. Giants lost Barkley and Sheppard, which was a huge blow to their chances, and they still managed to stay in the game. I'm curious where the Lions and Giants OLine's rank among all teams.

I was shocked as hell that Montgomery cam back in that game after the way he landed. I assumed either a concussion or a neck/back injury. Without Montgomery, there is no run game with this team.
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