Bulls offseason discussion

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Bulls offseason discussion

Postby Old Style » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:25 pm

Report: Warriors considering trade for Bulls' Carter, No. 4 pick

The Golden State Warriors are considering whether to accept a trade that would send the No. 2 overall pick in Wednesday's NBA draft to the Chicago Bulls in exchange for center Wendell Carter Jr. and the No. 4 selection, sources told The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor.

If Chicago trades up, the club is said to be targeting Memphis big man James Wiseman. The 7-foot-1 center will likely be off the board if the Bulls stay put.

Wiseman has only worked out for the Warriors and the Charlotte Hornets, who own the No. 3 overall pick.

Chicago drafted Carter seventh overall in the 2018 NBA Draft. The Duke product has had trouble staying healthy, though he's been productive when on the court. Carter has averaged 10.8 points, 8.2 boards, and 1.1 blocks during his two seasons in the Windy City.

It's unknown who Golden State would select should the team trade down, though the Warriors have been linked with Maccabi Tel Aviv wing Deni Avdija and Iowa State's Tyrese Haliburton.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby UMFan83 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:29 pm

Weird to give up an asset like Carter to move up 2 spots in this potentially terrible draft, but I don’t know too much about Wiseman since I assumed he wouldn’t be available at 4 and that if the Bulls did move up it would have been for a playmaker like Ball.

I’m not even a big fan of Carter but recognize he’s a decent tradable asset.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby rawaction » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:14 pm

Move up would have to be for Ball. Wiseman's probably my #2 prospect in the draft, but it doesn't make sense trading a big just to get a less experienced (albeit bigger) big. You also can't really build a team around a big anymore. And the #2 pick should be a building block. You build a team around the wing. Get the PG. Ball, White and LaVine could be a really good and dynamic backcourt. Carter's a good fit with those guys who doesn't need plays run for him to be effective.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:40 pm

rawaction wrote:Move up would have to be for Ball. Wiseman's probably my #2 prospect in the draft, but it doesn't make sense trading a big just to get a less experienced (albeit bigger) big. You also can't really build a team around a big anymore. And the #2 pick should be a building block. You build a team around the wing. Get the PG. Ball, White and LaVine could be a really good and dynamic backcourt. Carter's a good fit with those guys who doesn't need plays run for him to be effective.

I'm guessing fit with the current roster isn't as big of a concern for AK. Do you need a star wing in today's NBA? Yes, but a star Center is still plenty valuable and if you feel he'll reach that ceiling more likely than the other guys, I think you try and address the wing at a later date.

I've not watched any of these guys though, so I'm pretty impartial as to what they do. Just glad it's not GarPax still in charge.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:48 pm

Apparently there's some rumors about Patrick Williams as well as rumors of LaVine being dangled on the trade market.

Not sure if there's a world where AK trades up from 4 and then uses LaVine+ to get back into the lottery. Or perhaps it's Wiseman if they can make the trade, Williams if they can't.

Or its all smoke and AK is playing everyone.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby Brian » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:06 pm

Don't have any opinion on any of the available players, and have no great attachments to anybody on the team. I'm going to be happy with whatever happens as I'm going to trust AK until he gives me a reason not to.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby abmillis » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:08 pm

Unless Ball or Wiseman is there at 4, I think I'd like them to trade back with the Knicks and get 8, 23, and maybe something like a future pick swap? Just don't think Advija, Toppin, Williams, etc. is far enough ahead of the rest of the pack that you couldn't get someone comparable at 8 (maybe even one of those 3 above?) and someone good at 23 (Saddiq Bey? Desmond Bane?)
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby rawaction » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:27 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
rawaction wrote:Move up would have to be for Ball. Wiseman's probably my #2 prospect in the draft, but it doesn't make sense trading a big just to get a less experienced (albeit bigger) big. You also can't really build a team around a big anymore. And the #2 pick should be a building block. You build a team around the wing. Get the PG. Ball, White and LaVine could be a really good and dynamic backcourt. Carter's a good fit with those guys who doesn't need plays run for him to be effective.

I'm guessing fit with the current roster isn't as big of a concern for AK. Do you need a star wing in today's NBA? Yes, but a star Center is still plenty valuable and if you feel he'll reach that ceiling more likely than the other guys, I think you try and address the wing at a later date.

I've not watched any of these guys though, so I'm pretty impartial as to what they do. Just glad it's not GarPax still in charge.


Yeah, definitely fit with who's on the roster doesn't matter. My angle was more of building a team. If you trade up to #2 for someone, it should be someone you can build a team around. Wiseman's really good, but he's not a guy thats going to create his own shot. You gotta have guys that can create their own shots to build around. Best case, Wiseman's the 2nd coming of Embiid and you still need help on the wing and especially at PG with a guy that can create his own shot (and shots for Wiseman).
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:36 pm

rawaction wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
rawaction wrote:Move up would have to be for Ball. Wiseman's probably my #2 prospect in the draft, but it doesn't make sense trading a big just to get a less experienced (albeit bigger) big. You also can't really build a team around a big anymore. And the #2 pick should be a building block. You build a team around the wing. Get the PG. Ball, White and LaVine could be a really good and dynamic backcourt. Carter's a good fit with those guys who doesn't need plays run for him to be effective.

I'm guessing fit with the current roster isn't as big of a concern for AK. Do you need a star wing in today's NBA? Yes, but a star Center is still plenty valuable and if you feel he'll reach that ceiling more likely than the other guys, I think you try and address the wing at a later date.

I've not watched any of these guys though, so I'm pretty impartial as to what they do. Just glad it's not GarPax still in charge.


Yeah, definitely fit with who's on the roster doesn't matter. My angle was more of building a team. If you trade up to #2 for someone, it should be someone you can build a team around. Wiseman's really good, but he's not a guy thats going to create his own shot. You gotta have guys that can create their own shots to build around. Best case, Wiseman's the 2nd coming of Embiid and you still need help on the wing and especially at PG with a guy that can create his own shot (and shots for Wiseman).

I mean, second coming of Embiid is awesome! If you think he's closer to that than Ball the second coming of whoever, then theres a good argument for it.

Bulls got "lucky" in a pretty poor draft and with Donovan brought it, it doesn't look like they're headed for a tankathon. So they just gotta build a pre-made competitive roster and try and poach the next big FA wing. Without GarPax, I actually buy that they can pull it off.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby Tim » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:55 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
rawaction wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:I'm guessing fit with the current roster isn't as big of a concern for AK. Do you need a star wing in today's NBA? Yes, but a star Center is still plenty valuable and if you feel he'll reach that ceiling more likely than the other guys, I think you try and address the wing at a later date.

I've not watched any of these guys though, so I'm pretty impartial as to what they do. Just glad it's not GarPax still in charge.


Yeah, definitely fit with who's on the roster doesn't matter. My angle was more of building a team. If you trade up to #2 for someone, it should be someone you can build a team around. Wiseman's really good, but he's not a guy thats going to create his own shot. You gotta have guys that can create their own shots to build around. Best case, Wiseman's the 2nd coming of Embiid and you still need help on the wing and especially at PG with a guy that can create his own shot (and shots for Wiseman).

I mean, second coming of Embiid is awesome! If you think he's closer to that than Ball the second coming of whoever, then theres a good argument for it.

Bulls got "lucky" in a pretty poor draft and with Donovan brought it, it doesn't look like they're headed for a tankathon. So they just gotta build a pre-made competitive roster and try and poach the next big FA wing. Without GarPax, I actually buy that they can pull it off.

If Porter stays healthy this year and Donovan can coach up Coby playing point, the team could make a really big jump this year. With Otto's money coming off the books, they should be able to get a quality FA on the team next summer (whenever FA actually falls in 21). They've got players to make up a quality supporting cast. They need the star to be the focal point. No matter who they pick, I don't think that star is coming from this draft.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:08 pm

Tim wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
rawaction wrote:
Yeah, definitely fit with who's on the roster doesn't matter. My angle was more of building a team. If you trade up to #2 for someone, it should be someone you can build a team around. Wiseman's really good, but he's not a guy thats going to create his own shot. You gotta have guys that can create their own shots to build around. Best case, Wiseman's the 2nd coming of Embiid and you still need help on the wing and especially at PG with a guy that can create his own shot (and shots for Wiseman).

I mean, second coming of Embiid is awesome! If you think he's closer to that than Ball the second coming of whoever, then theres a good argument for it.

Bulls got "lucky" in a pretty poor draft and with Donovan brought it, it doesn't look like they're headed for a tankathon. So they just gotta build a pre-made competitive roster and try and poach the next big FA wing. Without GarPax, I actually buy that they can pull it off.

If Porter stays healthy this year and Donovan can coach up Coby playing point, the team could make a really big jump this year. With Otto's money coming off the books, they should be able to get a quality FA on the team next summer (whenever FA actually falls in 21). They've got players to make up a quality supporting cast. They need the star to be the focal point. No matter who they pick, I don't think that star is coming from this draft.

Well it wouldn't hurt to get one of your stars in this draft. Obviously you aren't getting both stars, and you don't have one on the roster now.

Even if you thought the low-end of Wiseman was merely WCJ, you're at least extending the cheap/controllable window, along with buying the upside. If Wiseman only ever became a DeAndre Jordan rim runner, its still a nice piece to put around a future star FA wing.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:05 pm

This would certainly be a choice

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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby rawaction » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:14 pm

Lonzo and LaMelo would make very little sense together.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:38 am

Patrick Williams, F, FSU, it is.

Based on the early reaction at RealGM I like this pick.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby UMFan83 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:43 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:Patrick Williams, F, FSU, it is.

Based on the early reaction at RealGM I like this pick.


i dont know how much hes going to help the bulls next year. wasnt even a starter in college (very trubisky like lol) and the season starts in like 3 weeks so I bet we see a lot of DNPs early on. Can't argue his upside though. AK went star hunting, and hopefully with Donovan as coach he can develop into one.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby rawaction » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:44 am

So am I crazy or does Williams remind anyone of.........Otto Porter Jr?

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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby Tryptamine » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:55 am

One of my biggest pet peeves is drafting people based on tools and hoping it translates to in game skills. This isn't an egregious case, but I'm not thrilled either.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby Brian » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:53 am

my completely uneducated opinion (I never even heard about the guy until it came out the Bulls were interested yesterday or whenever it was)...

Just assuming the price of #2 was really #4 and Carter, I don't think there's a trade up scenario that was available and/or made sense out there for any of the picks 1-3. With what was left after 3 I think you need to find your guy that you want to take a swing at and do it. I'm guessing there was no trade back available that guaranteed them their pick, as supposedly Detroit would have taken him at 7, so you only got 5 or 6 to trade back and I doubt you gain anything in either of those trades to risk losing your guy.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby 17 Seconds » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:46 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:Patrick Williams, F, FSU, it is.

Based on the early reaction at RealGM I like this pick.


i went to realgm and a lot of people seem to despise it. are they really negative over there? i haven't spent time there in years. there were a ton of incredibly reactionary posts about this pick and AK in particular. weird.

i think the flower stuff was nice and i like him
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby UK » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:02 am

If GarPax made this pick, everyone would be livid.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:04 am

UK wrote:If GarPax made this pick, everyone would be livid.

Yes, most are livid now too from what I can tell.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby UK » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:08 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
UK wrote:If GarPax made this pick, everyone would be livid.

Yes, most are livid now too from what I can tell.


Which is fair. I hope AK proves everyone wrong but the pick looks like a role player.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:21 am

UK wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
UK wrote:If GarPax made this pick, everyone would be livid.

Yes, most are livid now too from what I can tell.


Which is fair. I hope AK proves everyone wrong but the pick looks like a role player.

This draft largely sucks. All it really has are role players for upside outcomes for most guys.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby David » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:15 am

I don't really see how it's fair to be livid.

Also most of those people at realGM are insane.

Toolsy guy we took fourth overall in a very weak draft. Who knows. We'll see what happens.
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Re: Bulls offseason discussion

Postby NewUserName » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:51 pm

David wrote:I don't really see how it's fair to be livid.

Also most of those people at realGM are insane.

Toolsy guy we took fourth overall in a very weak draft. Who knows. We'll see what happens.


It seems that he had more upside than most in this draft. Since it is a weak draft why not take a high upside guy?
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