Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

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Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:35 pm

Well, we're waiting dot gif.
Last edited by jersey cubs fan on Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:38 pm

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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:41 pm

bye Pagano. All else remains the same. Thats my bet
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby UMFan83 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:52 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:bye Pagano. All else remains the same. Thats my bet


That seems to me like the most likely outcome but my confidence level of any of them returning is less than 100%.

Regardless of what happens, the Nagy/Mitch marriage has to end. Theres no magical way that Nagy is going to find a way to make a Mitch led offense average or better.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby rawaction » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:01 pm

The Phillips rumor from a few weeks ago still stands out to me. I think he's gone. Not fired, but one of those mutual partings or retirement or something. The question becomes do they bring in a new president of football operations or promote Pace and bring in a GM. My hope is the former, who then can oversee the offseason decisions and eventually make the decisions on Pace and Nagy.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby Old Style » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:11 pm

I have no faith in this organization to make any real moves. We will be average at best again next season and likely for years.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:17 pm

rawaction wrote:The Phillips rumor from a few weeks ago still stands out to me. I think he's gone. Not fired, but one of those mutual partings or retirement or something. The question becomes do they bring in a new president of football operations or promote Pace and bring in a GM. My hope is the former, who then can oversee the offseason decisions and eventually make the decisions on Pace and Nagy.

I honestly do not see the latter happening in any way. Promoting Pace would be so bizarre. Why do it? He's young, established but not particularly accomplished. If you want to go with the prez/gm model, just hire a prez who will take it from there. I'd be shocked with that result. Everything else is on the table.

I've said it before but they could do worse than bringing both Pace and Nagy back. I'd be fine with it.

I think one of the worst things they could do is clean house from Pace on down and allow Phillips to make another hire.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby rawaction » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:44 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
rawaction wrote:The Phillips rumor from a few weeks ago still stands out to me. I think he's gone. Not fired, but one of those mutual partings or retirement or something. The question becomes do they bring in a new president of football operations or promote Pace and bring in a GM. My hope is the former, who then can oversee the offseason decisions and eventually make the decisions on Pace and Nagy.

I honestly do not see the latter happening in any way. Promoting Pace would be so bizarre. Why do it? He's young, established but not particularly accomplished. If you want to go with the prez/gm model, just hire a prez who will take it from there. I'd be shocked with that result. Everything else is on the table.

I've said it before but they could do worse than bringing both Pace and Nagy back. I'd be fine with it.

I think one of the worst things they could do is clean house from Pace on down and allow Phillips to make another hire.


I hope you're right. I'm more anti-Nagy than anti-Pace if we're being honest, so I definitely am not advocating for him to be fired. And as much as I dislike Nagy for his offense's consistent inability to score TDs for the most part of the last 3 years, I think he's a good CEO coach type and think his offense would work if they got the QB position right.

Honestly, I'm really warming up to the idea of a Carson Wentz trade. His contract isn't terrible for the trading team (essentially 2/47.4Mil) with no dead money after 2022. But a Wentz trade could make a ton of sense for both sides. Something like Wentz for Foles + picks. I'm not sure what picks, but I wonder if the Eagles would even take 2022 picks with conditions so they could maximize Wentz's value if he performs well.

So, Wentz for Foles + 2021 5th round + 2022 conditional 2nd/3rd.

Philly gets out of Wentz's money, get Foles back, where he won a Superbowl. He can backup Hurts or give him more time. Nagy loves familiarity based on his coaching hires and backup QB choices. Wentz should be pretty familiar with a lot of the offensive concepts as Nagy and Pedersen are obviously Reid disciples. It also prevents the Bears from moving up for a QB in this draft or settling for a 2nd tier guy that's probably not going to be good enough. And it gives them flexibility to potentially let Robinson go and spend an early pick they would spend on a QB on a WR instead.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:48 pm

I get the Wentz thing, but the Bears just aren't one of the teams with the cap space where they should be taking it on. Yes, they can make it work, but they shouldn't IMO. Plus I'm not really sure they should even have to give up picks. Or it better be a pick swap at worst, so they aren't creating a pick defecit for a team in need of some draft infusion and cheap rookie production.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:52 pm

hell no to Wentz
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby rawaction » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:53 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:I get the Wentz thing, but the Bears just aren't one of the teams with the cap space where they should be taking it on. Yes, they can make it work, but they shouldn't IMO. Plus I'm not really sure they should even have to give up picks. Or it better be a pick swap at worst, so they aren't creating a pick defecit for a team in need of some draft infusion and cheap rookie production.


Yeah, my thinking as well which is why I had the 2022 conditional pick in there. The Eagles don't have any leverage in a Wentz trade. He was bad this year and will cost them 35Mil to be a disgruntled backup, and they can't cut him. Maybe there's enough competition for him (Colts, Niners) to where they can get a 2nd day 2021 pick, and if that's the case....more power to them.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:55 pm

rawaction wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:I get the Wentz thing, but the Bears just aren't one of the teams with the cap space where they should be taking it on. Yes, they can make it work, but they shouldn't IMO. Plus I'm not really sure they should even have to give up picks. Or it better be a pick swap at worst, so they aren't creating a pick defecit for a team in need of some draft infusion and cheap rookie production.


Yeah, my thinking as well which is why I had the 2022 conditional pick in there. The Eagles don't have any leverage in a Wentz trade. He was bad this year and will cost them 35Mil to be a disgruntled backup, and they can't cut him. Maybe there's enough competition for him (Colts, Niners) to where they can get a 2nd day 2021 pick, and if that's the case....more power to them.

Yea if the Colts don't bring back Rivers they make tons of sense as a team that would target Wentz. More than enough cap space to take him on. They have his former OC as HC.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby gflore34 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:24 pm

I can't see the McCaskey' not using every excuse to go with the status quo, they've a plethora of excuses at their disposal - pandemic, made the playoffs, etc. I still maintain we may never see a seriously good Bears team, organization until ownership changes.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:44 pm

Anybody aware of the timeline of previous Bears blood lettings in the offseason? From Fox, to Emery/Trestman, Angelo, Lovie, Jauron. For some reason I'm thinking they are rarely "day after season announcements" but is that true? I'm pretty sure Lovie was a Black Monday situation and in my opinion he's the closest to what firing these guys would be - competent with relative success but not good enough being the justification.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:55 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:Anybody aware of the timeline of previous Bears blood lettings in the offseason? From Fox, to Emery/Trestman, Angelo, Lovie, Jauron. For some reason I'm thinking they are rarely "day after season announcements" but is that true? I'm pretty sure Lovie was a Black Monday situation and in my opinion he's the closest to what firing these guys would be - competent with relative success but not good enough being the justification.

Looking at news articles, looks like Fox, Treastman, and Emery were all Monday firings. Too lazy to research the others.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:02 pm

I dunno. I don't hate Nagy. NFL coaches without a QB inevitably look dumb, like MLB managers without a bullpen. I can't really say that his teams have underperformed their talent.

I do hate Pace, but I can understand why he might not be getting fired today.

I don't really care what they do in the short-term. I don't really expect them to go scorched earth rebuild and I'm not sure that's even all that useful. They'll make some amount of moves to try to be competitive in 2021, and as long as they don't go crazy backloading contracts or trading picks, I don't really care how they go about it.

All I care about is that we have two primary long-term goals:

1) Drafting QBs until we have a franchise-quality QB
2) Getting the situation set up for our QB draftees to have the best opportunity possible.

I don't care about defense at all. I want our QB to come into an offensive situation so good that even when he succeeds people still doubt whether it's him or all the talent around him. I want top-notch receivers, a difference-making offensive line and even enough of a running game to take the heat off the QB.

I like Mooney. I don't hate the idea of franchising Robinson. I really like Kmet. I like Montgomery. That's a start, at least. The problem with the OL now is that I don't think any of them are outright terrible. There's just a lot of D+ players on that line, so any of them can be replaced and wouldn't be missed.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:06 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:I like Mooney. I don't hate the idea of franchising Robinson. I really like Kmet. I like Montgomery. That's a start, at least. The problem with the OL now is that I don't think any of them are outright terrible. There's just a lot of D+ players on that line, so any of them can be replaced and wouldn't be missed.

I think you have to franchise Robinson.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:12 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Hairyducked Idiot wrote:I like Mooney. I don't hate the idea of franchising Robinson. I really like Kmet. I like Montgomery. That's a start, at least. The problem with the OL now is that I don't think any of them are outright terrible. There's just a lot of D+ players on that line, so any of them can be replaced and wouldn't be missed.

I think you have to franchise Robinson.

Why?
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:13 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Hairyducked Idiot wrote:I like Mooney. I don't hate the idea of franchising Robinson. I really like Kmet. I like Montgomery. That's a start, at least. The problem with the OL now is that I don't think any of them are outright terrible. There's just a lot of D+ players on that line, so any of them can be replaced and wouldn't be missed.

I think you have to franchise Robinson.

Why?

Desperation for talent and lottery ticket on somebody signing him, without making a huge commitment to him.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:16 pm

Serious question. Has a team ever actually gotten the 2 pick comp from a franchise tag?

If you want some comp, let him walk and get a third on 2022.

If you are desperate for talent, I'd say reconsider for 2021 (though obviously thats my head space which isn't likely to be Paces if he's the one calling the shots still).
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:19 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:Serious question. Has a team ever actually gotten the 2 pick comp from a franchise tag?


Probably not, or maybe once when it first became a thing.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:21 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:Serious question. Has a team ever actually gotten the 2 pick comp from a franchise tag?


Probably not, or maybe once when it first became a thing.

You can still trade his rights, right?
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:24 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:Serious question. Has a team ever actually gotten the 2 pick comp from a franchise tag?


Probably not, or maybe once when it first became a thing.

You can still trade his rights, right?

Yes. Though I think it has to be by a certain date?

Trade idea.

A tagged Robinson and a 5th for Darnold and their 23rd overall (this presumes they go Fields obviously).
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby David » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:27 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:Anybody aware of the timeline of previous Bears blood lettings in the offseason? From Fox, to Emery/Trestman, Angelo, Lovie, Jauron. For some reason I'm thinking they are rarely "day after season announcements" but is that true? I'm pretty sure Lovie was a Black Monday situation and in my opinion he's the closest to what firing these guys would be - competent with relative success but not good enough being the justification.


lovie was fired on new year's eve 2012-13, which was a monday.
Last edited by David on Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are we getting Black Monday II? Bears offseason thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:29 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Probably not, or maybe once when it first became a thing.

You can still trade his rights, right?

Yes. Though I think it has to be by a certain date?

Trade idea.

A tagged Robinson and a 5th for Darnold and their 23rd overall (this presumes they go Fields obviously).

Would he go there? He's dealt with relative incompetence his entire career and that's the most incompetent franchise in the sport
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