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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby stitchface » Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:33 pm

wolf stansson wrote:When are we going to start questioning Jordan Morris staying in MLS? He’s good enough to be a starter at a mid-table or better club in Europe. He makes good money playing for his hometown team (his dad is even team physician) so I don’t blame him for staying, but damn he’s take a leap.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/08/ ... nsive-woes


Also, I’ll cop to never watching philly, but it sure seems like Brendan Aaronsen is one to watch (mentioned by TT previously).




Hasn't that been questioned since he graduated?
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:13 pm

Morris had a decision to make when he graduated and chose the Sounders over Werder, but since then there's been zero chatter about a move to Europe. Part of that is understandable since he had growing pains and lost a year to injury, but even when he signed the contract that wolf mentioned it took everyone by surprise, it wasn't in response to increasing transfer rumors or anything like that.

I agree that Morris could easily be a regular on someone like Frankfurt or Wolfsburg, but I'm not sure he's the kind of guy who is going to give up his current situation for a marginal shot to work his way into a Champions League side in several years. From a development standpoint I think there's probably not much more gap between his current level and potential. Especially since there's legit things to criticize about his touch/one footedness that he's likely too old to really improve dramatically, even if those get exaggerated by the eurosnobs who can't bear that a player can be really good even if without the ability to fluidly dribble past 8 defenders.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby wolf stansson » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:41 am

He's a blunt instrument, but an extremely effective blunt instrument. It's just direct speed and power, so whether you start him or bring him off the bench, he's turned into a real weapon for the national team.

And he has defied my expectations for technical development so far, especially being a college to MLS guy (perhaps the last of his kind at the elite national team level), so I think he may genuinely have room to grow in that capacity.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby stitchface » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:46 pm

so not being impressed by Morris makes one a eurosnob? Surprised by the lashing out. I'm not sure why I'm not allowed to have a different opinion than you.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:54 pm

stitchface wrote:so not being impressed by Morris makes one a eurosnob? Surprised by the lashing out. I'm not sure why I'm not allowed to have a different opinion than you.


Not talking about you, a significant portion of USMNT fandom made up their mind about Morris several years ago and is loudly ignorant of the player he's become. I do think it's possible that you're underrating him though, he's made a lot of progress that isn't blindingly obvious(he's not snaking around the field like Pulisic), but makes a very real difference. As an example, imagine the social media reaction if Tim Weah did this against Nantes or Mendez did against a 2nd division Dutch side:

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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby stitchface » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:07 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
stitchface wrote:so not being impressed by Morris makes one a eurosnob? Surprised by the lashing out. I'm not sure why I'm not allowed to have a different opinion than you.


Not talking about you, a significant portion of USMNT fandom made up their mind about Morris several years ago and is loudly ignorant of the player he's become. I do think it's possible that you're underrating him though, he's made a lot of progress that isn't blindingly obvious(he's not snaking around the field like Pulisic), but makes a very real difference. As an example, imagine the social media reaction if Tim Weah did this against Nantes or Mendez did against a 2nd division Dutch side:



for sure it's possible. Hard to rate players in soccer.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby wolf stansson » Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:10 pm

All I know is that I watch the majority of his club games and he has become a very efficient, physical, and dynamic presence that opens up a ton of space for Nico Lodeiro and Ruidiaz. He is a physical specimen who grinds defenders down throughout the game with his pace and power. He is a physical counter-defender who is fast enough to overlap defensively with the left back. He is a true winger who pulls defenders wide because with his speed and improved passing game, they must account for him or he'll get behind them and finish chances crashing into the box. The Sounders have created a dynasty for a bunch of reasons, but one of the biggest has been his development and the space he creates for the other attackers. Before his rise, the Sounders attack was very Arsenalish in that they would be by far the better team between the boxes, but their attack would bunch up/stall out as soon as they were in scoring range and they'd continually try to pass their way out of it. Since his rise on the wing, there has been way more space in the attack and that has made all the difference for Seattle to become a team that win MLS cups vs just always making the playoffs.

So think about our MNT roster.

We have dynamic attacking left back who likes to overlap and get into the attack, but needs a speedy winger who can cover defensively and press aggressively to win balls back. Jordan Morris: Check.

We have an offensive superstar who needs space to be successful. CONCACAF will foul him into dust if they can get away with it. Pulisic, much like Lodeiro, needs wingers who can draw defenders away from the edge of the box. Jordan Morris: Check.

We have regional opponents who bunker behind the ball and the only way to open them up is often with speed on the counter. Jordan Morris: Check.


He's really good and if he moved to Europe, everyone would know it. If he doesn't, he'll still be really good, he'll just have to deal with a lot of people who think a 17 year old who struggles with consistency and has never had to play in CONCACAF qualifying conditions is a better option.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby wolf stansson » Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:00 pm

Really good profile on Reyna, his upbringing, and what life is like for a 17 year old American thrust into the biggest stage far from family and home during a global health crisis & social unrest:
https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-stat ... SJlSm0h243





Can’t help but wonder if having your dad as your manager is the right move in this situation. That’s not even taking how much tax trouble his dad has gotten him into over the years into consideration. Get a real agent, bro. Like, 15 years ago.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby stitchface » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:10 pm

wolf stansson wrote:Really good profile on Reyna, his upbringing, and what life is like for a 17 year old American thrust into the biggest stage far from family and home during a global health crisis & social unrest:
https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-stat ... SJlSm0h243





Can’t help but wonder if having your dad as your manager is the right move in this situation. That’s not even taking how much tax trouble his dad has gotten him into over the years into consideration. Get a real agent, bro. Like, 15 years ago.



tons of these guys have their family as manager. Trying to keep more of the money? I agree with you - hard to believe the world's biggest sports star has his father as manager.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby stitchface » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:15 pm

wolf stansson wrote:All I know is that I watch the majority of his club games and he has become a very efficient, physical, and dynamic presence that opens up a ton of space for Nico Lodeiro and Ruidiaz. He is a physical specimen who grinds defenders down throughout the game with his pace and power. He is a physical counter-defender who is fast enough to overlap defensively with the left back. He is a true winger who pulls defenders wide because with his speed and improved passing game, they must account for him or he'll get behind them and finish chances crashing into the box. The Sounders have created a dynasty for a bunch of reasons, but one of the biggest has been his development and the space he creates for the other attackers. Before his rise, the Sounders attack was very Arsenalish in that they would be by far the better team between the boxes, but their attack would bunch up/stall out as soon as they were in scoring range and they'd continually try to pass their way out of it. Since his rise on the wing, there has been way more space in the attack and that has made all the difference for Seattle to become a team that win MLS cups vs just always making the playoffs.

So think about our MNT roster.

We have dynamic attacking left back who likes to overlap and get into the attack, but needs a speedy winger who can cover defensively and press aggressively to win balls back. Jordan Morris: Check.

We have an offensive superstar who needs space to be successful. CONCACAF will foul him into dust if they can get away with it. Pulisic, much like Lodeiro, needs wingers who can draw defenders away from the edge of the box. Jordan Morris: Check.

We have regional opponents who bunker behind the ball and the only way to open them up is often with speed on the counter. Jordan Morris: Check.


He's really good and if he moved to Europe, everyone would know it. If he doesn't, he'll still be really good, he'll just have to deal with a lot of people who think a 17 year old who struggles with consistency and has never had to play in CONCACAF qualifying conditions is a better option.


What is impossible to know though, is how those things translate to leagues where everyone is bigger, faster and more physical? Winning in CONCACAF should be a given for the US and I really don't buy the players are going to melt in those conditions arguments. How is his first touch efficiency? I personally think the choices the US has wide should all be good enough to get out of CONCACAF - how can we compete with stronger teams? I worry more about the midfield - especially after those games against Mexico where we can't get out of the back. Pulisic needs the ball where he can run at the backs - having other strong options up front is vital but need to get them the ball. I really don't understand your argument about an overlapping back needing a strong wing in front of him - that is not how that works in my experience. A strong overlapping back needs a wing that is going to run inside and open that space.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:51 pm

The way I think of Morris is that he sets a high enough floor that you need some consistent substance to unseat him. He's not an ideal match for the USMNT starting 11 because Pulisic's best position in the current system is on the wing, and Morris is much better at beating his man to the endline while Berhalter wants more of a playmaking winger. Even then, he's good enough at what he does(and his USMNT production proves it) that I'm not willing to cede a spot on the depth chart to someone like Llanez who hasn't played first team soccer, or even Weah who has done perilously little of it. I'd even go as far to say as you can make arguments for Morris being ahead of Reyna, but I expect those arguments to be out of date very quickly(plus Reyna is a better fit to be a playmaking winger). Bottom line, the best combination of results for Morris and the USMNT is him being able to drub CONCACAF opponents if there's injuries or lack of availability(someone made the point recently that every MLS team is better than every CONCACAF opponent save Mexico and I agree), and being able to run at tired legs against better countries off the bench. If even that isn't possible for him it should be because someone else(Weah, Llanez, Mendez, etc) has taken a leap forward that they are not certain to make.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby big ball chunky time » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:43 pm

ziyech, werner, chilwell (ehh) and havertz. Gonna score 140 goals and concede 138
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby wolf stansson » Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:46 pm

big ball chunky time wrote:ziyech, werner, chilwell (ehh) and havertz. Gonna score 140 goals and concede 138




And it sure seems like these prices are deflated by like 25% from pre-covid. That transfer ban was the best thing that could’ve happened to that club. It’s totally changed their culture and coincidentally positioned them to capitalize on this crucial transfer window.

I even love the Thiago Silva rental.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby stitchface » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:56 pm

Costa Rica? Have they fallen that far?
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby wolf stansson » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:18 pm

Pulisic is fully healthy for the opener and is now officially wearing the #10.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby big ball chunky time » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:28 pm

wolf stansson wrote:Pulisic is fully healthy for the opener and is now officially wearing the #10.


is he really fully fit? he looked like he got hit by a sniper in the fa final
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby wolf stansson » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:16 pm

So they say. He’s training:





Gio agrees with my midfield selection. Thank you, Gio. He probably doesn’t agree with me having him on the bench for now.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby stitchface » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:15 pm

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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby soccer10k » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:57 pm



I fully realize the answer is money but there’s no other reason to have the League Cup this year. I mean, it’s a dumb competition anyway that should just go away, but this year it’s especially dumb.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby stitchface » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:11 am

excited for Premier League soccer this weekend since I will likely be stuck inside all weekend!
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby soccer10k » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:53 pm

I’m getting tired of these add on streaming services that are separate from your TV package. All EPL games but one are on Peacock Premium next weekend. I subscribe to NBCSN but have to pay extra for Peacock Premium. But the games on NBCSN aren’t available on Peacock Premium do you need to get both if you want full coverage. I’m sure the Champions League with CBS will be the same thing.

I know these companies don’t give a horsefeathers about us and they probably get enough people to sign up for both to make it worth it. I’ll just find alternative means to watch those games.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby stitchface » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:55 pm

soccer10k wrote:I’m getting tired of these add on streaming services that are separate from your TV package. All EPL games but one are on Peacock Premium next weekend. I subscribe to NBCSN but have to pay extra for Peacock Premium. But the games on NBCSN aren’t available on Peacock Premium do you need to get both if you want full coverage. I’m sure the Champions League with CBS will be the same thing.

I know these companies don’t give a horsefeathers about us and they probably get enough people to sign up for both to make it worth it. I’ll just find alternative means to watch those games.


Yes, we now have to pay extra to watch local channels apparently. Fortunately, there are enough soccer games on other channels to not make this worth it. Champions League will be worth it for knock out rounds but definitely not now.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby stitchface » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:56 pm

Is there a decent MLS game on nationally (ESPN?) that I can watch. Watched some lower level Premier League this weekend and would be curious to compare.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:11 pm

stitchface wrote:Is there a decent MLS game on nationally (ESPN?) that I can watch. Watched some lower level Premier League this weekend and would be curious to compare.


Only national game today is Galaxy/San Jose on TUDN and (for some reason) Twitter. The Galaxy have been on a nice run even without Chicharito, but San Jose is, uh, well they did this on Thursday:



If you have ESPN+(or were considering it with the Bundesliga going there), Sporting KC/Minnesota are both solid MLS teams, and Portland/LAFC would be a marquee matchup if both teams weren’t ravaged by injuries.
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Re: soccer soccer soccer

Postby stitchface » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:40 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
stitchface wrote:Is there a decent MLS game on nationally (ESPN?) that I can watch. Watched some lower level Premier League this weekend and would be curious to compare.


Only national game today is Galaxy/San Jose on TUDN and (for some reason) Twitter. The Galaxy have been on a nice run even without Chicharito, but San Jose is, uh, well they did this on Thursday:



If you have ESPN+(or were considering it with the Bundesliga going there), Sporting KC/Minnesota are both solid MLS teams, and Portland/LAFC would be a marquee matchup if both teams weren’t ravaged by injuries.



What's TUDN?
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