General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:34 pm

Things like general NFL corruption and horsefeathers things done by players off the field and the Bears being terrible have all done a ton to turn me off of football, but the main thing by far is stuff like the GQ article. At some point in the last few years watching football just became really...unpleasant. That sounds really wishy-washy, but I don't know how else to describe it; before that, one of the main reasons to watch was to see the big hits, and all of sudden seeing that just left me feeling sick and anxious. It suddenly felt like watching a clip online of someone getting hit by a car or taking a bad fall; basically watching a game turned into the type of real life violence that I didn't and don't like seeing. It just stopped being entertainment and became real in a single offseason.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby bukie » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:47 pm

David wrote:my nephew plays soccer...has played since he was tiny and is now on the tail end of his high school career. he's had at least 1 or 2 concussions.

i don't know horsefeathers about soccer but i've heard anecdotally that they have a decent amount of them from headers and occasionally contact. obviously doesn't have the repetitive sub-concussive hits that are constant in football, though.

is there any data on any long term effects from soccer, given how popular it is for kids?

(i am in no way trying to counter the football is bad argument. football IS bad and i'd never let my kid play)

Soccer is a big concussion risk, which is why headers were made illegal for kids under 13. There's also a strict concussion protocol in place at my son's club and league, to the point where they stop the game whenever there's any head/neck contact/injury. The best part of it from my perspective is the social environment of soccer compared to football, where player safety is a huge deal and evident as priority #1, at least in my experience.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:21 am

bukie wrote:Soccer is a big concussion risk, which is why headers were made illegal for kids under 13. There's also a strict concussion protocol in place at my son's club and league, to the point where they stop the game whenever there's any head/neck contact/injury. The best part of it from my perspective is the social environment of soccer compared to football, where player safety is a huge deal and evident as priority #1, at least in my experience.

I had a convo at a birthday party with a dad in town who coaches one of the catholic middle school teams, and his rants about the "[expletive] of America" really put me at unease about the safety of the kids on his team.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby ConstableRabbit » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:27 am

David wrote:my nephew plays soccer...has played since he was tiny and is now on the tail end of his high school career. he's had at least 1 or 2 concussions.

i don't know horsefeathers about soccer but i've heard anecdotally that they have a decent amount of them from headers and occasionally contact. obviously doesn't have the repetitive sub-concussive hits that are constant in football, though.

is there any data on any long term effects from soccer, given how popular it is for kids?

(i am in no way trying to counter the football is bad argument. football IS bad and i'd never let my kid play)

Not sure about anything specific to playing as a child, but there was a study a few years back mentioned on Real Sports that talked about the prevalence of ALS for soccer players. Basically that they overindex, along with players from some other sports.

Here's a clip.

ETA: And here's an article about it. The show also mentioned that Lou Gehrig himself suffered multiple concussions, which was interesting.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby philosophizer75 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:42 am

I think tackle football should start at junior high, 7th grade or so.

And I've read somewhere that soccer actually has the most concussions associated with it out of all youth/HS sports, but I'm out right now and can't look that up to substantiate it.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:43 am

With all these sports, you've got people diving/sliding and running into things or people, and there's just always the risk that your brain gets sloshed around too much because of it. Football just expands that inherent risk waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than we should be comfortable with.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:11 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:With all these sports, you've got people diving/sliding and running into things or people, and there's just always the risk that your brain gets sloshed around too much because of it. Football just expands that inherent risk waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than we should be comfortable with.

A full on soccer/basketball collision may be just as hard on the head as the biggest of football ones, but football adds on a lot of little ones on top of that AND has an ingrained culture about "toughing it out" that just makes it extra reckless in the wrong hands.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Splendid Splinter » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:20 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:With all these sports, you've got people diving/sliding and running into things or people, and there's just always the risk that your brain gets sloshed around too much because of it. Football just expands that inherent risk waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than we should be comfortable with.

A full on soccer/basketball collision may be just as hard on the head as the biggest of football ones, but football adds on a lot of little ones on top of that AND has an ingrained culture about "toughing it out" that just makes it extra reckless in the wrong hands.


Probably harder considering there's no pads to "protect" themselves in those sports. It also happens a lot less often and usually you don't see the same person getting concussed over and over.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:24 am

Splendid Splinter wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:With all these sports, you've got people diving/sliding and running into things or people, and there's just always the risk that your brain gets sloshed around too much because of it. Football just expands that inherent risk waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than we should be comfortable with.

A full on soccer/basketball collision may be just as hard on the head as the biggest of football ones, but football adds on a lot of little ones on top of that AND has an ingrained culture about "toughing it out" that just makes it extra reckless in the wrong hands.


Probably harder considering there's no pads to "protect" themselves in those sports. It also happens a lot less often and usually you don't see the same person getting concussed over and over.

Basketball concussions can be bad too because their cushion when the fall is hardwood instead of grass.

You are operating in the rarer occassions there, but theres going to be some risk in any contact sport.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby bukie » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:37 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Splendid Splinter wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:A full on soccer/basketball collision may be just as hard on the head as the biggest of football ones, but football adds on a lot of little ones on top of that AND has an ingrained culture about "toughing it out" that just makes it extra reckless in the wrong hands.


Probably harder considering there's no pads to "protect" themselves in those sports. It also happens a lot less often and usually you don't see the same person getting concussed over and over.

Basketball concussions can be bad too because their cushion when the fall is hardwood instead of grass.

You are operating in the rarer occassions there, but theres going to be some risk in any contact sport.

Sure, except football is a sport designed for collisions, whereas in other sports it's a rare accident.

Basketball you get a rough collision once a game, maybe. Football you get a rough collision once a play, guaranteed.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby David » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:37 am

Really more than once a play because of the line play
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Thurman Merman » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:50 am

I played left and center back through high school, and was always the guy who handled the headers off of goalie punts, especially in high school. I remember some of those late season games that it was so cold that the ball hitting your head felt like a rock. I think about those header competitions we used to have in practice and wonder what damage I did to myself. I don't notice any mental deficiency, but then I see those studies like that als one an wonder.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:18 am

David wrote:Really more than once a play because of the line play

Lineman on lineman impact is generally not that impactful
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:42 am

I've had 2 concussions that I can recall (neither related to sports somehow), and I can't imagine what some of these dudes are experiencing based on how jacked up things are for me at times.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby David » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:32 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:
David wrote:Really more than once a play because of the line play

Lineman on lineman impact is generally not that impactful


Been a while since I've read up on this but

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/10/14/new-harva ... e-trenches

http://www.cleveland.com/science/index. ... ead_h.html


So....I guess if their technique is "good" enough (however realistic that may be in practice) to avoid bumping helmets often, sure. I'm not sure how realistic that may or may not be, but with 9+ guys involved I could see it happening fairly often. Probably not every play, though.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:55 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Splendid Splinter wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:A full on soccer/basketball collision may be just as hard on the head as the biggest of football ones, but football adds on a lot of little ones on top of that AND has an ingrained culture about "toughing it out" that just makes it extra reckless in the wrong hands.


Probably harder considering there's no pads to "protect" themselves in those sports. It also happens a lot less often and usually you don't see the same person getting concussed over and over.

Basketball concussions can be bad too because their cushion when the fall is hardwood instead of grass.

You are operating in the rarer occassions there, but theres going to be some risk in any contact sport.


Of course there is; like I said, football just takes that inherent risk and makes it infinitely more likely on every single play.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Banedon » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:14 pm

Bo Jackson wrote:“If I knew back then what I know now,” Jackson tells USA TODAY Sports, “I would have never played football. Never. I wish I had known about all of those head injuries, but no one knew that. And the people that did know that, they wouldn’t tell anybody.

“The game has gotten so violent, so rough. We’re so much more educated on this CTE stuff, there’s no way I would ever allow my kids to play football today.

“Even though I love the sport, I’d smack them in the mouth if they said they wanted to play football.

“I’d tell them, ‘Play baseball, basketball, soccer, golf, just anything but football.’”


http://deadspin.com/bo-jackson-says-he- ... 1791157695
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:30 pm

Banedon wrote:
Bo Jackson wrote:“If I knew back then what I know now,” Jackson tells USA TODAY Sports, “I would have never played football. Never. I wish I had known about all of those head injuries, but no one knew that. And the people that did know that, they wouldn’t tell anybody.

“The game has gotten so violent, so rough. We’re so much more educated on this CTE stuff, there’s no way I would ever allow my kids to play football today.

“Even though I love the sport, I’d smack them in the mouth if they said they wanted to play football.

“I’d tell them, ‘Play baseball, basketball, soccer, golf, just anything but football.’”


http://deadspin.com/bo-jackson-says-he- ... 1791157695

I would have never played football. Never.

I still wouldn’t change a thing... I have no regrets.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Banedon » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:36 pm

Heh, yeah...I think I get it though. It's easy to have no regrets cuz he knows how things turned out, but if he had it to do over again, he wouldn't take the risk. Giving him the benefit of the doubt there though.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby NewUserName » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:28 pm

I coach Jr HI level football. 2 things that I often see that really bothers me. The first is the star player getting 25 carries a game than playing middle linebacker and getting 15 tackles a game.

The 2nd is kids not learning how to tackle properly. Even at that age they are more concerned about the hit and not closing out well, head up, wrap up and drive to the ground.

Both of these things seem to be widely accepted.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby NewUserName » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:52 pm

And a lot of the people who run the league say things like horsefeathers of America
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:00 pm

NewUserName wrote:I coach Jr HI level football. 2 things that I often see that really bothers me. The first is the star player getting 25 carries a game than playing middle linebacker and getting 15 tackles a game.

The 2nd is kids not learning how to tackle properly. Even at that age they are more concerned about the hit and not closing out well, head up, wrap up and drive to the ground.

Both of these things seem to be widely accepted.

That steelers helmet to helmet last night is perfect example. People ask, "what are you supposed to do" and the answer is the complete opposite of what that guy did. He brought his arms down and braced himself for purposeful helmet first contact, with a launch. That is just terrible technique but everybody does it because when you hit hard it looks cool.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:40 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
NewUserName wrote:I coach Jr HI level football. 2 things that I often see that really bothers me. The first is the star player getting 25 carries a game than playing middle linebacker and getting 15 tackles a game.

The 2nd is kids not learning how to tackle properly. Even at that age they are more concerned about the hit and not closing out well, head up, wrap up and drive to the ground.

Both of these things seem to be widely accepted.

That steelers helmet to helmet last night is perfect example. People ask, "what are you supposed to do" and the answer is the complete opposite of what that guy did. He brought his arms down and braced himself for purposeful helmet first contact, with a launch. That is just terrible technique but everybody does it because when you hit hard it looks cool.

I had to laugh as his teammate came up to him all jacked up over that hit, even after the flag had already been thrown.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby 17 Seconds » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:50 am

my mom steered me away from football when i was a kid, and then i got a nasty concussion playing hockey.
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Re: General Other Sports Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:39 pm

17 Seconds wrote:my mom steered me away from football when i was a kid, and then i got a nasty concussion playing hockey.


Well yeah, hockey isn't far off from football.

Concussion rates by sport per 100,000 "atheletic exposures":

Football: 64 -76.8
Boys' ice hockey: 54
Girl's soccer: 33
Boys' lacrosse: 40 - 46.6
Girls' lacrosse: 31 - 35
Boys' soccer: 19 - 19.2
Boys' wrestling: 22 - 23.9
Girls' basketball: 18.6 - 21
Girls' softball: 16 - 16.3
Boys' basketball: 16 - 21.2
Girls' field hockey: 22 - 24.9
Cheerleading: 11.5 to 14
Girls' volleyball: 6 - 8.6
Boys' baseball: Between 4.6 - 5
Girls' gymnastics: 7

http://www.headcasecompany.com/concussi ... ons_sports

It's kinda interesting to me that girls' soccer is so much higher than boy's soccer.
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