Starting Pitching candidates

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Duke Silver
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Duke Silver » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:14 am

I'd think today's game is a perfect example about why trading Wade Davis would be a dumb idea.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:19 am

davell wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:
Thrilho wrote:No sir. I want an extension. Leave the blown saves for Nats.

I want to win too but I also would like to open the window of contention wider and bring in a guy with a live arm and 7 years of control ready to step into the rotation. We can then use other small chips to bolster the pen with a Strop/Duensing type of arm and move Carl into the closer spot and Monty back into the long role and trade for Gray (starting to accept it will cost Eloy) or Gausman or whoever they're most intent on. Then we have a real rotation moving forward and plenty of financial flexibility.

I don't really want to have a 15-20m Closer but I definitely don't think the idea of extending him is a bad one.


1) Monty can stay in the rotation. 2) You're really devaluing the pen, in doing that. A Duensing or Strop addition really doesn't add much. 3) We've got financial flexibility now. You've got Jake, Miggy, Lackey, Davis, Jay, Uehara, Anderson, probably Rondon, and Duensing coming off the books. Even AFTER arb raises, you've got 60-65 mill to spend just to get to last years payroll. We've got room.

I don't know what starter we'll add at the deadline, but we're going into the off season with plenty of money to spend.(even if there's not necessarily a ton to go buy). At any rate, we're plenty flexible now. Don't need to trade Davis to get even more so.


I don't want to buy old arms on the market and cut into any ability to extend our core when the times come. We have flexibility now, I didn't mean it that way. But if we can fill in the rotation with cheap arms we can really start trying to lock some of these guys up.

And while I really like Monty in the rotation. The long role he was playing this year was huge because our guys keep getting bombed.

Lester
Kyle
Gray/Gausman
Tinstaapp
Butler

Doesn't look so bad for the next 2-4 years.

Anyway I'm gonna stop. Don't want to beat a dead horse.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:22 am

What's the rush to lock any of these guys up? This team is and should continue printing money, worrying about acquisitions now and how they might affect re-signing a guy in 4-5+ years should worry you for other reasons than we don't have any pitching.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:12 am

Evidently, David Price got into it with Eckersley, who works for NESN. Its his second media blow up in the last month. If we don't go get Verlander at the deadline, I'd say he's a decent possibility. If for no other reason, than I'd bet Boston would give him away, mostly for just having his contract off their books.....He's expensive, but if they kicked in a bit, I'd say we'd be a good fit.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby David » Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:23 am

In a rare meatball opinion for me, I fully believe he's a playoff choker
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:26 am

David wrote:In a rare meatball opinion for me, I fully believe he's a playoff choker


Ha, in writing that out, it went thru my mind too.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Regular Show » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:13 am

David wrote:In a rare meatball opinion for me, I fully believe he's a playoff choker


Yeah, I don't want anything to do with D. Price at this point. Too much wear-and-tear, bad contract, doesn't seem to handle criticism well. I guess he's a playoff choker? Not sure -- the ole' small sample size caveat. I mean if D. Price is a playoff choker then so is C. Kershaw right?
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:03 pm

Regular Show wrote: I mean if D. Price is a playoff choker then so is C. Kershaw right?

Uhhhh ya think

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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:07 pm

Ah, last year. Feels like ages ago.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:51 pm

Price wouldn’t choke in the 2017 playoffs if the cubs acquired him
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Regular Show » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:50 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Regular Show wrote: I mean if D. Price is a playoff choker then so is C. Kershaw right?

Uhhhh ya think

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I know C. Kershaw has been bad in the playoffs, but it doesn't feel right to call him a playoff choker...

How can one be so dominant during the regular season and be garbage in the postseason? I think eventually C. Kershaw will dominate during the postseason, but he seems to be slipping and giving up way more HRs this year so maybe he never will.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby BigSlick » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:52 pm

Honestly I just think a lot of the time starters just get really tired and once the postseason rolls around they're totally exhausted and facing really good teams

but maybe thats too convenient an explanation
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:31 pm

Kershaw has had some bad circumstances that have contributed to his playoff numbers, hasn't he? It seems like he gets taken out and every inherited base runner scores, due to his pen. Plus, they inexplicably throw him on short rest every year too, I think.

He's not been great, but I don't think he's David Price level of gacking.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:46 am

BigSlick wrote:Honestly I just think a lot of the time starters just get really tired and once the postseason rolls around they're totally exhausted and facing really good teams

but maybe thats too convenient an explanation


I agree. I also think the key to avoiding this is by building a great offense. This means fewer high leverage and high stress innings overall for all the pitchers, makes it easier to managers to manage pitch counts, and gives more opportunity to rest SPs. I also also already believe the Cubs think this way about pitching. Price seems fine to me, has everything I'd like in a SP acquisition and might be had for a reasonable trade cost.
Last edited by TomtheBombadil on Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:50 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:Kershaw's going to go off in the playoffs this year. My hope is that the Cubs are good enough for that not to matter, but right now I'd take the Dodgers in a short series.


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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:58 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:Kershaw's going to go off in the playoffs this year. My hope is that the Cubs are good enough for that not to matter, but right now I'd take the Dodgers in a short series.




Why be so fast? It's a trick, reverse psychology or something obviously
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:56 am

davell wrote:Kershaw has had some bad circumstances that have contributed to his playoff numbers, hasn't he? It seems like he gets taken out and every inherited base runner scores, due to his pen. Plus, they inexplicably throw him on short rest every year too, I think.

He's not been great, but I don't think he's David Price level of gacking.


Without looking at stats to back me up, I feel like Kershaw gets pushed longer than most starters in the playoffs because of how horsefeathers his bullpen is (besides Kenley) and that is partially to blame for his memorable playoff meltdowns.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Regular Show » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:44 am

I really want the Cubs to target K. Gausman. Like I really want the Cubs to target him, and I think Bosio can fix whatever is wrong with him. Might take an offseason to get him fully fixed and whatnot.

Full disclosure: I wanted the Cubs to take Gausman if he were available at #6 in the 2012 MLB Draft over Almora. I had C. Correa at #1 and then Buxton. I think then I had K. Gausman. I hated M. Appel and wanted the Cubs to avoid taking him so I'm glad I was right on that at least. If Appel signed with Pittsburgh in 2012, K. Bryant might have been gone #1 to Houston in 2013. We got lucky (plus Houston is dumb).
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby champaignchris » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:49 am

Kershaw's peripherals in the playoffs aren't as good as they are in the regular season, but they're still very good, and far better than what you'd expect from the results. He looks like small sample size bad luck to me.

David Price has just gotten shelled in the playoffs. If Kershaw is a playoff choker, Price is some level beyond that.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:14 am

The Cardinals kind of beat his ass a couple times and skewed the stats some
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Derwood » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:21 pm

Gausman had a great start over the weekend. Verlander got shelled
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Tedward » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:22 am

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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Gilby » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:49 am

That would be my ideal scenario. I'd rather bet on Verlander bouncing back (since his stuff hasn't diminished at all) while holding onto Eloy, over trading Eloy for Gray. Maybe Verlander's terrible numbers in his age 34 season should scare me more, but man his stuff is still electric.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Agony and Ivy » Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:47 am

Gilby wrote:That would be my ideal scenario. I'd rather bet on Verlander bouncing back (since his stuff hasn't diminished at all) while holding onto Eloy, over trading Eloy for Gray. Maybe Verlander's terrible numbers in his age 34 season should scare me more, but man his stuff is still electric.


Not sure it would take Eloy to get Sonny either.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby 17 Seconds » Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:54 am

the jays are getting close to falling out of the race. what is a realistic package for stroman?
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